"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones - What's the best choice?

[ALE7575]

"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones – What’s the best choice?


INTRODUCTION
The proposal of this Thread is to establish what is the best choice between some current movements in the replica watches:

- “Swiss” ETA
- New Asian Superclones
- Conventional Asian Clones.

Don’t get disappointed, but I have not the reply at this moment.
I try through this thread start a discussion in order to obtain in some weeks an answer to this interesting question for all members.

Anyway in this thread I have introduced some information and links to give you a support in order to base your opinions on them and take your decisions.

I had the idea of this thread many months ago. But just now I have decided to place this thread due to an interesting debate started between Wiz, wat44 and others members, myself included, in a thread put by tillybop with other very different purpose.
This mentioned thread is very important to introduce the main subject to discuss. you can read below the above mentioned discussion as follows:

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Wiz: Even if the Swiss ETA from our dealers are sometimes not really Swiss, at least they're higher grade movements than the ones sold as clones. If you ask me it's worth taking the higher grade, even if it's not Swiss.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]tillybop: I don't understand Wiz. If it's not really swiss, then it is the clone... ..isn't it?[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: What I'm saying is when a dealer sells a watch with 2 options: swiss or clone movement, the one sold as swiss will most likely be of better quality than the one sold as clone.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I've repaired quite a few 282X movements now, and everytime I've seen one with issues that were not the result of a missuse, the movement had been sold as clones.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]watt44: I dont agree Wiz[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]sometimes, you will get a re-worked swiss which will be worse than an asian clone[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: It's been a while since I haven't seen one in a watch recently purchased. The ones I see with reworked swiss movements mostly come from watches that are a few years old.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]watt44: also dealer-dependent and watch-dependent[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]the safest bet is buy clone from dealer, and if you feel so-inclined, gen swiss mvt and swap it over when the clone dies [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: Actually it's more factory dependent. But I talked with a few dealers and they know exactly which factories are known to provide new swiss movements and which are not.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I wouldn't say the safest is to buy the clone. Even if the movment you'll get when buying Swiss is not really Swiss, it will most likely be of better quality than the one you'll get when buying the same watch with clone.
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I'm not saying it's the gospel truth, it's just what I would advise based on the movements I've had on the bench.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]watt44: have you been able to tell the new asian clones from ETA? ive heard from 2 different watchsmiths who reckon they cant tell!!!
Wiz: So far I've been relying on the machining marks bellow the automatic device, but in order to be sure I would need to see a movement that is for sure one of these new asian clones.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]You're talking about the supposedly new superclones people have been talking about lately, right?[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]tillybop: So basically it's a lottery. You pays your money and takes your chance. If you are lucky you'll get a gen ETA, otherwise it will be a clone of varying quality...
Wiz: Some dealers will answer you honnestly on wether they think the factory producing the watch you're after really provides Swiss movements, some won't.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]But the real issue is not will you get a Swiss movement or not, but will the extra money get you something better? And from my humble experience, most of the time the answer may be yes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]ALE7575: "Swiss", Asian clones, Superclones... [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]It is an interesting discussion for all members.
I think Wiz could start a thread about this and try to achieve a definitive conclusion, if possible.
I know perhaps we have not enough data to take a decission, but we need to know if it is not definitively better a Clone than a "Swiss", because the thoughts of most members are: Clone better than "Swiss"
There are a lot of consults from noobs who are asking the more "expert" members for a decission between Clone or "Swiss", and the more frequent reply is: Go to the clone !!![/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]tillybop: Good point[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I've read loads of threads where members have been tod to stay away from swiss and go for the clones. So a definitive answer either way woud be beneficial for all. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: The problem is that people are looking for a definitive answer, when around here things re in perpetual evolution.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]What was considered to be true yesterday might not still be true today, and today's truth might not be tomorrow's truth.
And the reason why I don't make a thread about it is because I don't consider my opinion to be the gospel truth. I can only talk from my experience.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Watt44: in the last 3 months, I have heard directly from 1 watchsmith and indirectly from 2 others who have opened up and taken apart a movement and were UNABLE to tell whether they were working on the new asian clone or the ETA[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]all 3 are related to this forum
this is a fairly new development
Mary was sourcing a watch for me, and some dealers were claiming swiss mvt for a certain price, and mary said there is NO WAY they were swiss because of the price they were selling them at - ie new swiss - it is possible for old or re-cycled swiss stock
so depending on wat you are buying... could be:
1. gen ETA new stock
2. old ETA, reserviced, recylced, recobbled... (the worst outcome)
3. new clones
4. older clones
much harder to know exactly wat you will be getting... Robert and Mary I think would be the only ones capable of knowing wat they are selling to you. MR next best
IMO [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I just found this:[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]http://www.rwg.cc/topic/135779-2836-..._fromsearch__1
interesting, too[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: They could probably tell the difference if they had a swiss and a new clone side by side and were looking for differences.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Rep dealers can't produce 1:1 cases, dials, ..., why would they be able to produce 1:1 movements...?
If I get a watch that is a confirmed new clone I'll try to look for differences.
There are less and less watches coming with refurbished swiss movement, so the option 2 is less and less likely.
Option 4 is also not much likely since most of the time you'll get a better movement when ordering swiss than when ordering clone.
Bottom line is, all the reps with 282X movements that ended up on my bench with issues were powered by clones, so no matter what you'll get when ordering swiss, I can't advise to go for the clone. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]KBH: Maybe the question should be which is better, a new clone or an old ETA that needs servicing, which is likely what you'd get in the last few years? Then it becomes a harder choice. I'd still go with the Swiss if it was watch I really liked. If it was one I'd probably flip, I'd go with the clone.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Now the game is changing with the new Sellita SW200 movements coming in reps. I'll take that any time knowing it's a factory fresh Swiss movement. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: Between the reps I bought and the ones I've had on the bench from others, I've seen maybe around 30 movements sold as Swiss. Out of these, I can only remember 2 which were in really bad condition and showed excessive signs of wear, and another one which was in average condition.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Sure it's not enough to draw a rule, but I guess that's engouh to say that the odds of getting a refurbished Swiss movement are not as big as some may think.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I don't know where the belief that most Swiss movements are refurbished came from. Maybe it used to be true a few years ago".[/FONT]​

[/FONT]The link for this thread is indicated below, please read from post #30:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/what-value-this-modded-sub-87294p3



THE CONTENDERS
The movements which are installed in replicas that we are talking about are as follows:

“Swiss” ETA
The thoughts about these movements are:
- These “Swiss” movements are not really authentic NEW Swiss ETA, they are refurbished Swiss ETA movements.
- These “Swiss” movements are really new Swiss ETA
- These “Swiss” movements are made with a part of authentic Swiss parts and a part of good Asian clone parts.
- ……
- ……

These movements are sold more expensive than the Asian and the question is if it is worth to pay this difference.
Many people (myself included) even say that the installed “Swiss” in replicas are worse than Asian clones at this moment. Because the Asian clone is NEW and relatively controlled but the “Swiss” has an unknown origin and age.

It is interesting to have more information about these movements. Thus, read the Wiz opinions in the thread above mentioned and the following thread placed by Francisco:

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=87481

The thread of Francisco seems definitive. But after reading the Wiz’s opinions we could think that perhaps there are some things that are starting to change in the replica movements.

Besides we have the words of sead1999 in a post of this forum:

Originally Posted by sead1999:
"Hello everyone
There are:
- Swiss ETA 2836 movements,
- Swiss ETA 2824 movements,
- Swiss Sellita movements (They have not made a clone Sellita in China yet so the movements on sale must be Swiss)
- There are also Swiss 7750 movements, Swiss 2892 movements, Swiss 2893 movements, and others...

Most of the replica watches sold with 'Swiss ETA' movements, that are priced between $200 and $300, contain 2824 and 2836 movements. Their price is not that high because of how simple the movements are, and also because about 60% of the parts in the 'Swiss ETA' are actually made in China.

There are different grades of movement available too:
- [platinum?] plated
- brand new
- refurbished
- used
- and other grades.

Swiss Sellita movements usually cost the same price as [Swiss] 2824 and [Swiss] 2836 movements.

When choose a 7750 or 2892 movement, they are more rare and more complex, and the price is correspondingly much higher. For example, you can't buy a replica watch with a Swiss 7750 movement for under $600.

The movements like Swiss ETA 2824 or 2836 are available to buy from retailers in the USA for about $150 (from Ofrei, for example) but you can also buy them much cheaper, so don't forget you can get these movements for less than $150.

When you buy a watch sold as Swiss but you get a Clone movement, it may have happened for two reasons:
- the Dealer is trying to make some extra profit because the Clone and Swiss movements are very similar (and the dealer hopes you won't notice)
- or there has been miscommunication between the dealer and the factory, and the dealer made an honest mistake."

New Asian Superclones
These movements are the last generation of Asian clones, they have a good price and, besides, they have seemingly a very good quality. The accuracy of these Superclones to the gen Swiss ETA is very good. And seemingly all the parts are interchangeable.

Below a link to a Puretime Superclone information:

http://puretimewatch.com/blog/166/

There are not many reviews of these movements, because they are very new. But the best information that I have been able to found (indicated by Bonesey) are two interesting and complete threads placed by Smidsy.

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149097
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149100

Please bear in mind the last words of Smidsy in his thread:
"The movement I got could have been the best or worst in a bunch and we have no way of knowing. Please bear in mind that these are my opinions of the movement I reviewed".
Threfore we must be cautious

Just read these threads and judge by yourself. Asian Superclones maybe a new possibility!!

Conventional Asian Clones
These movementes were and are considered until this moment the best choice: reliable, precise enough, cheaper and…NEW.
Most of fans at this moment think that this is the best option to buy.
But if you read the opinions in the above mentioned threads you could change your opinion.
Because, If we confirm that the Smidsy review is correct in the future and, besides, a big percentage of Superclones are in this way, we will have to change our thoughts and purchase decisions.


PERPETUAL EVOLUTION
Anyway I agree with Wiz’s words:

“The problem is that people are looking for a definitive answer, when around here things are in perpetual evolution.
What was considered to be true yesterday might not still be true today, and today's truth might not be tomorrow's truth”.

And this is the true, the reps world is in evolution and we must to study the matters carefully before to take a wrong decision.

I hope in some weeks to have a lot of opinions from the members in order to obtain sound conclusions soon

Therefore, as always, this thread is open to receive the opinions from all people.


THIS THREAD START IN THIS MOMENT WITH YOUR OPINIONS

WITHOUT YOUR OPINIONS THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS

Many thanks for your kind cooperation
ALE

 

[bigdeal]

I know very little about movements, and have little(ok, zero) experience working on them, but I can say that, When possible, I always choose the Asian 2836 clone. Thus far I have had no issues whatsoever with them(That I didn't cause anyway), and know that they can be cheaply and quickly fixed if there is a problem.

Given the price difference, It'll be tough to convince me otherwise, but I have an open mind...

Interested to hear what others think...


.

 

[mianos]

There are no real ETA parts made in China anymore. There was for a while but Swatch has now said nothing from the ETA movement is being made in China.

 

[civic4982]

Simply the fact that it was once made there means that the capability to copy it is there with all the precise specs.

 

[Wiz]

ALE, Fransico's thread is 2 years and a half old, things change quickly in the rep world, and what was true a few years/months back might not still be true today.

That said, I don't think the issue is "will you get a swiss movement when paying extra money" but "will you get a better movement for the extra money".

And to that question the answer seems to be yes.

The refurbished swiss movements, that might have been widespread at some point in the past, as of today are not that spread anymore (at least from my observations).

So wether you get a superclone or a swiss movement doesn't really matter.

On the other hand, the only 28XX movements I've had coming in for repair because they stopped working were movements sold as clones, so if you're after a reliable movement that will give you years of good service, I can't advise to go for a clone.

So once again, the thing is: to what question are we looking an answer for?

If the question is "are clone movements as good sa the swiss?", the answer is no.
If the question is "is it worth spending the extra money on the swiss movement option offered by the dealer?" the answer is: it's up to you.

As for the superclones, I need to see a confirmed one in order to start having an opinion.

 

[mike 8]

Interesting thread ALE. As we move foward, this will be a good reference when making a purchase. This reinforces my opinion that it's hader to buy a rep than a gen!! To buy a gen all you need is cash!! We have a saying in boating.."keep it simple stupid" but as the new reps are released, they are keeping up with the gen market eg.187g..7753 mvt. the 28xx mvts. are real workhorses, Swiss or Asian. I have minimal knowledge when it comes to mvts. We need the watcsmiths to chime in.

 

[boostin20]

I'm very interested in seeing how it pans out for the superclones.

 

[KBH]

As far as workhorse movements go, I'd have to say that the Asian clone ETAs are on par with a top grade A21j movements. They're both good for the price. Unfortunately, anyone with a little knowledge can tell the lower beat 21j movement at a glance.

And just because an Asian movement is new doesn't mean it's either clean or properly lubricated. In fact it's known that most clone movements are either under or not lubricated at all when they leave the factory. This is because they are only made to last till the warranty is up, not to be passed down from generation to generation. No lube actually decreases friction and allows for higher amplitude. Also, it eliminates one step in the manufacturing process and probably an expensive step. The downside of course, is that they don't last as long.

I've had several A7750 movements serviced and always they have been dirty nasty right from the factory.

 

[Wiz]

I've had several A7750 movements serviced and always they have been dirty nasty right from the factory.

+1

Always. No exception.

 

[ALE7575]

The valuable Wiz's opinions

@ Wiz
Dear friend Wiz
I'm very happy to have your opinions and advices in this thread
Many thanks for your kind and important contribution.

Please keep you in contact with this thread in order to have your valuable cooperation
Your opinions would be very appreciated
Please bear in mind that this thread is started by your comments in other RWI thread

Thanks again "maestro" Wiz
ALE

 

[sead1999]

from personal experience
clone vs swiss

swiss is better eta or selita doesnt matter

simple take two eta, clone and swiss
try to install and remove crown, 3 to 4 attempts and keyl;ess work gone on clone swiss still perfect

 

[wat44]

the only way to be sure is to source the ETA separately

there are Sellita clones, it is a myth that buying Sellita means you buy Swiss

its up to the individual, I have bought quartz, 21j, asian clone, "swiss ETA" and gen ETA depending on the model

however, as a rule - if you use the dealers who actually do check out the watch for you, then you get wat you pay for (ie dont pay extra for "Swiss" from dropshippers)

 

[offshore]

Hmmm. Interesting topic!
IMO there is no doubt an ETA Swiss movement is far superior to any Asian clone or Chinese movement.
However ETA do have factories throughout Asia...YES we do not necessarily know what is manufactured in them, and YES, a majority of manufactured movements are Quartz...however....I don't believe for 1 moment, that Swatch/ETA are not manufacturing ANY mechanical movements outside Switzerland! NO WAY!
So SOME (unknown what) movements, or at the very least components, used in ETA (Swiss) mechanical movements come from Asia. Far too many ETA plants to not be building something mech!

Someone here, more knowledgable than I may be able to throw some light on what the various ETA plants produce, and that would maybe start to answer a few questions.

What do I think of Chinese movements?
In the case of those models which are cheaply built and supplied, in a lot of instances they are quite reasonable, although materials are inferior, build nowhere near "precision" and in many cases a very dirty assembly.
The rub is that as they are cheaply built, the manufacturers, (rightly so) believe they do not need to supply spare parts. ( If the cost is $5.00/movement, you don't run a parts department!) Now the issue is that movement can be had for $5.00 or even less. HOWEVER, you must buy a huge quantity. 100,000 +
If you want 20 or 50, the price is $20 or $30, so by the time that movement is available for retail sale it is $50 or $100 or more.
This gets even worse when you consider something like the A7750. Its volume price is higher, and this magnifies down the supply chain, until it is asking $200-$250 for wholesale supply of 1 unit.
*Comment about A7750*
Personally I think its a heap of rubbish, however better informed and respected authorities tell me its OK now. Well I think OK isn't good enough, and it will remain junk in my eyes until I see something to convince me otherwise.
*rant ends*

However it is disturbing that something like an A7750 is being flogged around in so many watches, when it has, at best, a poor track record. AND no parts available!
I would have 8 or 9 here in various stages of demolition, being scavenged for parts.
There is 1 item, the reversing wheel, which fails only too regularly, and they are simply not around, so if yours goes, throw the bloody thing as far away as is possible.

I tend to agree with Wiz' theory that if you are paying "Swiss" prices, you are (generally) enjoying a better quality of movement, however we have enough history to prove that these sorts of theories should never be taken as read and always Caveat Emptor!

So this thread may still have a few legs, i will sit back and read with interest the various comments, and maybe toss a thought or two in as well.
Offshore

PS I see my mate wat posted as I was writing. Gotta agree wat-QUOTE(ie dont pay extra for "Swiss" from dropshippers)UNQUOTE

 

[Pix]

If we talk about 7750, there is no doubt the Swiss is better, even when the Asian is serviced/cleaned/oiled. I have no technical background for this opinion (except maybe the fact that I believe there are different material used), however I own several gen 7750 based reps, and the Swiss always performs better in accuracy, smoothness and feeling when setting time, winding.
Not mentionning we have low beat Asian versions which simply don't exist as gens. Same for the missing micro-regulator which shwos these are cheaper in accuracy and quality.

For the ETA 2824 and 2836, it's much more complicated.
Older reps that mentionned "Swiss" came with refurbished movements (at least this is a common understanding), so the feeling was not always positive vs what we now call the asian clones (which were new).

A genuinely bought "Swiss" ETA will be better IMO, for the simple reason it is new and comes with better components (again, materials used). But even there, ETA has officially several grades, so it also may depend on which grade you acquire.

These latest 2 years, we have had movements advertized as "Swiss" ETA which are to my eyes neither Swiss nor genuine (or call them what you want) but high grade clones. I really believe there are no (more) Swiss or gen movements in our reps. However I'm ready to pay more for these new clones, as they also perform better (invoking the same reasons I invoked for the 7750)

Sellita : I was always convinced these were genuine movements, but I read here and there that we have clones. No idea if this is true, but I don't understand which advantage the rep makers would have to create a clone of a movement which is already a clone of the ETA. Marketingwise it's always better to announce an ETA movement. So far I saw no review of anyone proving the Sellita clones exist (for instance showing the 26 instead of 25 jewels). I rather imagine that the makers are just providing ETA clones, with different stamps and rotors. I tend to believe the Sellita we have in reps are gens.

 

[wat44]

my source for Sellita clones is a TD

the motive is obvious - the factories can sell the SW for a premium

how many ways can you buy this watch:

http://www.puretimewatch.com/product/submariner-116610-lb-sa3135-best-edition/

"1:1 made from a genuine as sample, this is the final product and the movement is very stable and reliable, the fist real Rolex 3135 clone movement, do not miss your chance to be the first one own it!"

$418

 

[ALE7575]

@wat44
@SEAD 1999

Many thanks my friends for your kind comments and cooperation.

@offshore
@Pix

Hi friends
Many thanks for take your time in these interesting posts.
You are very kind

 

[Wiz]

Hmmm. Interesting topic!
IMO there is no doubt an ETA Swiss movement is far superior to any Asian clone or Chinese movement.
However ETA do have factories throughout Asia...YES we do not necessarily know what is manufactured in them, and YES, a majority of manufactured movements are Quartz...however....I don't believe for 1 moment, that Swatch/ETA are not manufacturing ANY mechanical movements outside Switzerland! NO WAY!
So SOME (unknown what) movements, or at the very least components, used in ETA (Swiss) mechanical movements come from Asia. Far too many ETA plants to not be building something mech!

I know for a fact that the Valgranges are pre-assembled in the ETA factory in Annemasse, France, and therefore outside of Swiss. I also know ETA buys some copper wires here in France and send them to China.

As of today, the only ETA movements or movement parts made in Asia are quartz, but it has not always been true.

All these coming straight from an ETA employee.

What do I think of Chinese movements?
In the case of those models which are cheaply built and supplied, in a lot of instances they are quite reasonable, although materials are inferior, build nowhere near "precision" and in many cases a very dirty assembly.
The rub is that as they are cheaply built, the manufacturers, (rightly so) believe they do not need to supply spare parts. ( If the cost is $5.00/movement, you don't run a parts department!) Now the issue is that movement can be had for $5.00 or even less. HOWEVER, you must buy a huge quantity. 100,000 +
If you want 20 or 50, the price is $20 or $30, so by the time that movement is available for retail sale it is $50 or $100 or more.
This gets even worse when you consider something like the A7750. Its volume price is higher, and this magnifies down the supply chain, until it is asking $200-$250 for wholesale supply of 1 unit.
*Comment about A7750*
Personally I think its a heap of rubbish, however better informed and respected authorities tell me its OK now. Well I think OK isn't good enough, and it will remain junk in my eyes until I see something to convince me otherwise.
*rant ends*

However it is disturbing that something like an A7750 is being flogged around in so many watches, when it has, at best, a poor track record. AND no parts available!
I would have 8 or 9 here in various stages of demolition, being scavenged for parts.
There is 1 item, the reversing wheel, which fails only too regularly, and they are simply not around, so if yours goes, throw the bloody thing as far away as is possible.

The 28XX clones, or at least the lowest grades of clones for what we know, are often dirty, not very well assembled, and made with crappy materials: just putting your screwdriver in one of the screw heads will tell you that.

To me they should be considered as high beat 21j. I used to believe they were good movements untill I put my hands in a few. Now I think these movements are not worth servicing. One it fails, swap with a Swiss.

A7750s are always dirty, poorly assembled, and made with crappy materials. But they're also more complicated than the 28XXs, so the consequences of all these faults are much worst. Having these movements serviced and properly assembled upon arrival is a must.

I tend to agree with Wiz' theory that if you are paying "Swiss" prices, you are (generally) enjoying a better quality of movement, however we have enough history to prove that these sorts of theories should never be taken as read and always Caveat Emptor!

Of course there is no absolute truth in the rep world, I'm talking most of the time.

there are Sellita clones

I can believe that they've appied a Sellita stamping on an ETA clone, but there are some visual differences between the movement from ETA and the Sellita version, so I'm having a hard time believing they would build a perfect copy of the Sellita, knowing how small the market is for that kind of product.

Tbh, untill I see one I'm going to have a hard time believing it exists.

 

[offshore]

I can believe that they've applied a Sellita stamping on an ETA clone, but there are some visual differences between the movement from ETA and the Sellita version, so I'm having a hard time believing they would build a perfect copy of the Sellita, knowing how small the market is for that kind of product.

Tbh, untill I see one I'm going to have a hard time believing it exists.

Would have to agree there. It is highly likely that a "Swiss" clone has been stamped with Sellita markings and numbers, but I would find it a hard stretch to see a specific movement being made to copy a Sellita. The question was asked of Sellita before they entered the market if their parts would interchange wit ETA, and the answer was, "Not all".
O/S

 

[Pix]

What would be the advantage indeed to have a Sellita clone vs an ETA clone ? I mean for the manufacturer.
If I were a rep manufacturer, I would charge more for a "Swiss" ETA, so why refrain doing it by cloning a Sellita SW200 which costs the same to produce for them ?

 

[coop]

I think its very possible there are Sellita clone movements. Sellita has been getting alot of press lately (mostly from Invicta) so the "awareness" of these movements is growing. Why clone a Sellita? Same reason they cloned Eta's, profit. As the brand awareness for these movements grow more buyers will look for them, and just as in the good ole days with eta, they will believe its a gen movement. And after a few years, we will have threads that say "we have been getting clone Sellitas for much longer then we think", the same as we did with eta's. In a country that copies EVERYTHING (I saw a docu once that even show eggs being cloned synthetically) I think its more then reasonable to assume that everything we get from them is a copy.

As far as quality the 21j are going to last the longest. The eta clones I have and have owned have been very good, and the few 7750's I have owned have been good (although I very rarely ran the cronos).