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Tourbillon @9

crunchycarrot00

Active Member
14/6/18
450
104
43
The iwc 5436 reps use a modified seagull tourbillon but I want aware of any seagull movements which have the tourbillon @ the 9 o'clock position

Any idea how the relp makers managed to do this? Seems like a complicated affair to either move the keyless components or the tourbillon itself so I'm really interested in how it was done
 

RolexViking

Looking Around
17/11/17
3
6
3
I know this is an old thread, but I assume that the reps don't actually use a tourbillion, but a open-heart style movement/dial-combo?
 

witchywatch423

Horology Curious
2/7/19
20
0
0
Also wondering about this, but more generally, how to care for a hand-wound tourbillon movement. Any advice will help. Thanks!
 

crunchycarrot00

Active Member
14/6/18
450
104
43
Also wondering about this, but more generally, how to care for a hand-wound tourbillon movement. Any advice will help. Thanks!

Same as any other watch, just that the stakes are higher and margin of error lower

Avoid shocks like the plague

If in storage, run them once a month on full wind.

When servicing, use the good lube

Tourbillons have a great deal of torque going through the system to drive that cage, this consequently means that there's a high degree of force going through every sliding surface and pivot

If you get crap on those surfaces, wear happens at a much faster rate.

There's nothing you can do to affect this fundamentally

If your can get them serviced properly, do it. But honestly how many good watchsmiths are there that have experience with Tourbillons and will work on reps and will not cost a significant portion of the price of the rep itself.
 
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witchywatch423

Horology Curious
2/7/19
20
0
0
Same as any other watch, just that the stakes are higher and margin of error lower

Avoid shocks like the plague

If in storage, run them once a month on full wind.

When servicing, use the good lube

Tourbillons have a great deal of torque going through the system to drive that cage, this consequently means that there's a high degree of force going through every sliding surface and pivot

If you get crap on those surfaces, wear happens at a much faster rate.

There's nothing you can do to affect this fundamentally

If your can get them serviced properly, do it. But honestly how many good watchsmiths are there that have experience with Tourbillons and will work on reps and will not cost a significant portion of the price of the rep itself.

Much apprciate the tips. When I wind mine, the tension seems to increase a little bit as I continue, but not very much, and then to some extent the crown will twist back maybe 1/8 a turn, but it's hard to tell if I'm reaching the max or if that's just a natural reaction. Any thoughts?
 

crunchycarrot00

Active Member
14/6/18
450
104
43
Much apprciate the tips. When I wind mine, the tension seems to increase a little bit as I continue, but not very much, and then to some extent the crown will twist back maybe 1/8 a turn, but it's hard to tell if I'm reaching the max or if that's just a natural reaction. Any thoughts?

Is this your first mechanical watch?

Depending on what movement you have, a bit of backspin may be normal or sign of an issue. There's a mechanism that prevents your the mainspring from unwinding (going backwards) called a click (think of it as a one way valve). But it works in discrete intervals (each tooth of whatever gear is connected to... In some watches its connected directly to the mainspring barrel, others in a gear somewhere else in the train.) if you have a display caseback or is really easy to see.

This effect is much harder to feel on automatic movements since the mainspring rarely has enough torque to move the auto winding mechanism (if it did the auto wind wouldn't work very well)

If you have an automatic watch it will be impossible to over wind it. If it is manual, it's really hard to describe using words because adjectives are not really precise but the best way I can describe is the transition from 99% wound to fully wound is almost always very discrete, it's normal to feel more and more resistance as you go from 0pct to 100pct but you never feel it "hit a wall" like you do when it gets to fully wound.

Good news is even if you over wind and break it, mainspring replacements are easy, even on tourbillons (most watches have access to the mainspring barrel without needing to do a complete teardown). Mainspring replacement was my first first into the world of working on my own watches (think of it as the changing the oil on your car in terms of relative complexity)
 

witchywatch423

Horology Curious
2/7/19
20
0
0
Is this your first mechanical watch?

Depending on what movement you have, a bit of backspin may be normal or sign of an issue. There's a mechanism that prevents your the mainspring from unwinding (going backwards) called a click (think of it as a one way valve). But it works in discrete intervals (each tooth of whatever gear is connected to... In some watches its connected directly to the mainspring barrel, others in a gear somewhere else in the train.) if you have a display caseback or is really easy to see.

This effect is much harder to feel on automatic movements since the mainspring rarely has enough torque to move the auto winding mechanism (if it did the auto wind wouldn't work very well)

If you have an automatic watch it will be impossible to over wind it. If it is manual, it's really hard to describe using words because adjectives are not really precise but the best way I can describe is the transition from 99% wound to fully wound is almost always very discrete, it's normal to feel more and more resistance as you go from 0pct to 100pct but you never feel it "hit a wall" like you do when it gets to fully wound.

Good news is even if you over wind and break it, mainspring replacements are easy, even on tourbillons (most watches have access to the mainspring barrel without needing to do a complete teardown). Mainspring replacement was my first first into the world of working on my own watches (think of it as the changing the oil on your car in terms of relative complexity)

So it's not my first mechanical watch, but it is my first manual-wind. I see what you're talking about in the open caseback. I'm still trying to dial in (no pun intended) that feel for it's nearing 100% capacity.

What you said about it being a normal sign or a sign of an issue got me a little concerned though. When I twist the crown, I can see the gear moving through the caseback. It seems like the more I power up the movement, the more the crown/gear will counter spin. Does that seem right? It's a Sea-Gull, manual wind. Thanks, btw, I feel like I've already learned a lot!
 

crunchycarrot00

Active Member
14/6/18
450
104
43
I have no idea what you mean
When you turn the crown, the gears on the back will spin (the gear train that connects the crown to the mainspring barrel. The more you turn the crown to wind the watch the more torque the mainspring will exert (self explanatory) back through the system. The click prevents the mainspring from unwinding itself through the crown by only allowing it to “go backwards” 1 tooth.

So when you say the more the crown/gear will counter spin are you saying “more” in the sense of force, or amount of movement. If it exerts more force, thats clearly normal, you push on a spring twice as much it pushes back twice as hard. But if you mean it moves back more in a (amount of movement) sense, then something is wrong.

I don’t want to use adjectives because again to different people “a lot” means very different things but I dont understand how people can break mainsprings by overwinding, it’s such an obvious transition between 99% wound and 100% wound that you’d have to be deliberately not paying attention to miss it. Honestly for manual wind watches if you’re just really scared, just stop when you feel any amount of resistance. Sure it might only be 60 or 70% full but just wind it twice a day or something. I sometimes take off even my automatic watches in the middle of the day to manual wind them just as an excuse to look at em a bit more. Do you REALLLY need that 48hrs of power reserve ? Are you the type to run your gas tank to almost empty before you refill or do you just refill when you’re at 1/4 or 1/2 tank. It’s the same logic, it wont kill you to wind more often and each time wind less.