Ginault owner's comparison to reps?

[derjenigewelcher]

Soon mine is coming

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Its been a couple of weeks with my VSF bezel assembly installed on my Ginault OR2..wow. Still.. nice bezel operation..smooth..no signs of it hardening or tight to turn. Smooth as butter when turning as it should be. Also, when I had installed the VSF..i replaced the original hyrtel ring from ginault..with the VSF. The stock ginault is not good in my opinion, can be installed with your hands, press not needed, which is bad. I did not pressure test new install but i don't ever wear this and will not wear in water. I feel more confident though as I needed a crystal press to install the hyrtle ringsHere is a current pict.

Hyrtel ring...I had meant retaining ring.. Sorry for the confusion..It's the part that holds the gasket and the crystal down onto the watch.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

updated picts. playing with iPhone 13 Pro camera and different backgrounds..forgive the iPhone in some picts..newb when it comes to taking pictures

 

[exia78]

TAG is Swiss made and the Ginault is Chinese made. Quality comparison is not valid and to suggest it is downright ridiculous.

Next you'll be telling us all a VSF, ARF or Noob Sub is actually as good ,if not better than a Swiss Made Rolex.

Add to that again, TAG advertises and endorses many and Ginault does absolutely sweet f_ck all. They can't even run a website correctly. What a f_cking joke they're playing on suckers willing pay upwards of $1300 + .

Ginault is likely not China made. Let me walk you through the logic and facts behind. First we know Ginault is (most likely) owned and operated by TC, and by now even a newb ought to know TC was not a dealer selling for the big rep factories behind. Ginault has its own independent production capabilities. The parts Ginault makes and uses are exclusively to Gianult and Ginault only. If you read the expose you will know, if he can make aeronautical parts in the US, I am pretty sure he can make most of his watch parts domestically too. Someone with his background, access, and means of production....I'd be surprised he would need to outsource the very thing he does for a living. But this is not to say he doesn't source anything from China. I am sure things like the gaskets, inserts stuff like that would need to come from China. The movement is Swiss Sellita. Finally, if you know the history, you will know he assembles his work at his workbench in the US when he is stateside.

On the other hand, Swiss Made these days doesn't mean the same thing anymore. The current requirement says you just need 60% of the total production cost spent within Switzerland, have a Swiss movement, and assembled in Switzerland to qualify for the Swiss Made moniker. This means besides the movement, you can have 100% of the watch (parts) cheaply manufactured in China, and assembled in Switzerland you can put Swiss Made on the dial. That's how you get garbage quality watches like Steinhart with Swiss Made on the dial. In fact only a few brands (Rolex, Patek, AP etc) have true fully vertically integrated production capabilities. What does that mean? It means brands like the ones you mentioned, Tag, sources their cases, bracelets, and so on from Asian manufactures. This is not to say Asian manufacturers cannot produce great quality stuff. But just saying if you think just because something says Swiss Made so it must be better than something made in Asia, you got lots and lots more to learn.

 

[exia78]

​​​​​​Wow, I had this in mind, but never tried.

Did u used the 40mm or 41mm assembly?
And what about the click springs? Does it works smooth?

This looks like a bezel assembly either for a 116610 or 126610. Either way, when mounted on the 5-digit style case, the proportion doesn't look right. It looks like a big mushroom covering the mid-case. No offense to the modder or his work. I am speaking merely from a design and visual point of view from a true 5-digit enthusiast.

 

[exia78]

updated picts. playing with iPhone 13 Pro camera and different backgrounds..forgive the iPhone in some picts..newb when it comes to taking pictures

This looks like a bezel assembly for a 116610 or a 126610. Either way, when mounted on the 5-digit style case, the proportion doesn't look right. It looks like a big mushroom covering the mid-case. No offense to the modder or his work. I am speaking merely from a design and visual point of view from a true 5-digit enthusiast.

Would be cool if Ginault launches a green ceramic version down the road.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Its from a 126XXX vsf bezel assembly. It may appear that way but it's actually only +0.32 difference from the stock Ginault OR2. To our eye...barely noticeable. If you see it in person, it's really not bad at all. Its like the new 41mm sports Rolex watches. They seem bigger, but in reality, they really aren't. Tapered lugs slims the watch down like this one. Appreciate the feedback. I modded the watch. I actually modded the watch to fix my stuck bezel issue. That has been my grind with Ginault. My bezel got stuck pretty bad after a couple months of ownership. I always had to adjust and clean it, basically take off the bezel assembly and clean. Why do we have to do this??? My conclusion was bad retaining ring being cnc'd too low and so it sat low, causing a lot of friction over time from dirt build up. I was right. My solution was to replace it with VSF retaining ring. It fit, had to sand it down a little to make it sit perfectly. Now, my ginault or vsf bezel can sit on it perfectly. I can swap back the assemblies and forth. Obviously, being 0.32 difference, the ceramic 38mm inserts will not fit Ginaults insert, unless you sand the insert down..I prefer just to swap the bezel assembly, 5 minute fix.

It would be cool if Ginault launches a green ceramic version but I don't think this is the route they are going. Rumors of a Silent Service model being released. If they follow what they did currently (copying parts or Rolex watches), I wouldn't be surprised that it would also be a combination of watches we all know and love (seiko, omega). Ginault has to come up with their own ideas, that's just me, otherwise they'll always have that rep that follows them. This is where I think they could shine but time will tell. I wouldn't buy another one if its a repeat of what they had just done.

Here's proof...Ginault bezel assembly is the one off the watch, of course.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Ginault is likely not China made. Let me walk you through the logic and facts behind. First we know Ginault is (most likely) owned and operated by TC, and by now even a newb ought to know TC was not a dealer selling for the big rep factories behind. Ginault has its own independent production capabilities. The parts Ginault makes and uses are exclusively to Gianult and Ginault only. If you read the expose you will know, if he can make aeronautical parts in the US, I am pretty sure he can make most of his watch parts domestically too. Someone with his background, access, and means of production....I'd be surprised he would need to outsource the very thing he does for a living. But this is not to say he doesn't source anything from China. I am sure things like the gaskets, inserts stuff like that would need to come from China. The movement is Swiss Sellita. Finally, if you know the history, you will know he assembles his work at his workbench in the US when he is stateside.

On the other hand, Swiss Made these days doesn't mean the same thing anymore. The current requirement says you just need 60% of the total production cost spent within Switzerland, have a Swiss movement, and assembled in Switzerland to qualify for the Swiss Made moniker. This means besides the movement, you can have 100% of the watch (parts) cheaply manufactured in China, and assembled in Switzerland you can put Swiss Made on the dial. That's how you get garbage quality watches like Steinhart with Swiss Made on the dial. In fact only a few brands (Rolex, Patek, AP etc) have true fully vertically integrated production capabilities. What does that mean? It means brands like the ones you mentioned, Tag, sources their cases, bracelets, and so on from Asian manufactures. This is not to say Asian manufacturers cannot produce great quality stuff. But just saying if you think just because something says Swiss Made so it must be better than something made in Asia, you got lots and lots more to learn.

So here's an interesting part to add onto what you guys are talking about, do not take offense, I am just going off of the situation. I helped some guys with their ginaults OR2 after they couldn't put it back together. One gentleman had and OR2 built two months after mine. Both had an aluminum insert, OR2, etc and so very comparable in terms of being the same watch manufactured.. Long story short he sent it to me to help resolve why his bezel would not sit flush with his watch as it did before (swapped inserts). While inspecting, whomever did the work no offense, we had found that the retaining rings were two totally different parts. I have pictures below. Why are they different? They are practically identical watches? Built only two months apart...since Ginault can make their own products, why was does his appear to be totally different? Could it be a total change in parts going forward? Or could it be because the supplier for this, actually ran out of the part and Ginault installed parts from some other vendor (Chinese)? We thought very strange...You can conclude for yourself, but the question makes you ponder, are they really making these? I also notice these chinese factories are being raided and shut down totally..and I belong to the a FB group of Ginaults...and follow the timeline on how long folks are waiting for their watches. Could it be a coincidence??..Are a lot of folks are waiting long because of these shut downs, meaning not getting parts? Reality..I don't care..just interesting to me. I really could care less..

 

[Vvvlllooo]

 

[weezkid]

Thanks for this info, good detective work, mate. :umnik:

 

[GottaHave]

Ginault is likely not China made. Let me walk you through the logic and facts behind. First we know Ginault is (most likely) owned and operated by TC, and by now even a newb ought to know TC was not a dealer selling for the big rep factories behind. Ginault has its own independent production capabilities. The parts Ginault makes and uses are exclusively to Gianult and Ginault only. If you read the expose you will know, if he can make aeronautical parts in the US, I am pretty sure he can make most of his watch parts domestically too. Someone with his background, access, and means of production....I'd be surprised he would need to outsource the very thing he does for a living. But this is not to say he doesn't source anything from China. I am sure things like the gaskets, inserts stuff like that would need to come from China. The movement is Swiss Sellita. Finally, if you know the history, you will know he assembles his work at his workbench in the US when he is stateside.

On the other hand, Swiss Made these days doesn't mean the same thing anymore. The current requirement says you just need 60% of the total production cost spent within Switzerland, have a Swiss movement, and assembled in Switzerland to qualify for the Swiss Made moniker. This means besides the movement, you can have 100% of the watch (parts) cheaply manufactured in China, and assembled in Switzerland you can put Swiss Made on the dial. That's how you get garbage quality watches like Steinhart with Swiss Made on the dial. In fact only a few brands (Rolex, Patek, AP etc) have true fully vertically integrated production capabilities. What does that mean? It means brands like the ones you mentioned, Tag, sources their cases, bracelets, and so on from Asian manufactures. This is not to say Asian manufacturers cannot produce great quality stuff. But just saying if you think just because something says Swiss Made so it must be better than something made in Asia, you got lots and lots more to learn.

Whilst I appreciate your attempt at logic there are way too many "most likelies" and of course this is simple here say by 'you' and not actual fact.

To be honest I like the Ginault myself & would own one. Having said that, I don't tolerate lack of integrity, over charging, misdirects and just plain lying.

I again ask the entire world - where exactly is a Ginault made in America? Where is there a website (specific Ginault url) that is of a standard nature that at least gives you a good understanding of Ginault and its offerings and when they're actually & accurately available to sell? FFS it's 2021 and not 1991.

If a Ginault was a $750 USD watch, which is still very healthy money in 2021 for a homage, I'd 'try' one but as it stands with the shroud of mystery and lies (by omission) surely a reasonable person would be asking these same questions and not be a blind fan boy or better yet, a shill for Ginault.

As the saying goes "if you've got nothing to hide you'd be 100% transparent...........................always"

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Whilst I appreciate your attempt at logic there are way too many "most likelies" and of course this is simple here say by 'you' and not actual fact.

To be honest I like the Ginault myself & would own one. Having said that, I don't tolerate lack of integrity, over charging, misdirects and just plain lying.

I again ask the entire world - where exactly is a Ginault made in America? Where is there a website (specific Ginault url) that is of a standard nature that at least gives you a good understanding of Ginault and its offerings and when they're actually & accurately available to sell? FFS it's 2021 and not 1991.

If a Ginault was a $750 USD watch, which is still very healthy money in 2021 for a homage, I'd 'try' one but as it stands with the shroud of mystery and lies (by omission) surely a reasonable person would be asking these same questions and not be a blind fan boy or better yet, a shill for Ginault.

As the saying goes "if you've got nothing to hide you'd be 100% transparent...........................always"

This is the same way I think..are we brothers? Jk. Folks here are more reasonable or have more open minds. You should join the FB group…there are so many fanboys, rightfully so, but they do not even question all these coincidence or excuses. I’ve always wanted to tour the Ginault facility, wondered where it was, wondered why we have to pay for parts or the watch..like we do reps? But that’s just me questioning things and not accepting the corporate lines.

 

[exia78]

Whilst I appreciate your attempt at logic there are way too many "most likelies" and of course this is simple here say by 'you' and not actual fact.

To be honest I like the Ginault myself & would own one. Having said that, I don't tolerate lack of integrity, over charging, misdirects and just plain lying.

I again ask the entire world - where exactly is a Ginault made in America? Where is there a website (specific Ginault url) that is of a standard nature that at least gives you a good understanding of Ginault and its offerings and when they're actually & accurately available to sell? FFS it's 2021 and not 1991.

If a Ginault was a $750 USD watch, which is still very healthy money in 2021 for a homage, I'd 'try' one but as it stands with the shroud of mystery and lies (by omission) surely a reasonable person would be asking these same questions and not be a blind fan boy or better yet, a shill for Ginault.

As the saying goes "if you've got nothing to hide you'd be 100% transparent...........................always"

As a gen watch brand, the quality and details that Ginault offers is pretty darn good. At the current $1,2000 range for a new one, Ginault is king at what they do. The next brand that comes anywhere close to this type of quality would be Monta but they hang around $2,000 plus range for a new one.

What I stated are facts, true rep history. If you buy the expose put out by DeepDwell and the history he dug up then it's all there. But what is funny is, people like you who buy into the expose, believing Ginault is TC, but at the same time conveniently left out the rest of the information gathered. If Ginault is TC, which I personally believe is, then most likely many of his parts are made domestically. Like I said, if dude can make airplane parts that require super high tolerance.........

But what I read here is a lot of double standards from you. Do you know where in China VSF ZZF Clean and so on are made? I don't see you asking that question. Did you go ask Tag where their cases, bracelets, dial and hands are made while the watch hangs a Swiss Made logo? I am pretty sure even if you did they would not open up their production and supplier list. Talking about "lack of integrity, over charging, misdirects and just plain lying." I don't see you giving any shit to the current Swiss Made standards....why is that? You think besides the movement having the entire watch made in China but to displayed as Swiss Made isn't a misdirect or just plain lying?

Finally it's funny how you mention lack of integrity while we are here chatting on a replica forum. It just makes me laugh

 

[GottaHave]

As a gen watch brand, the quality and details that Ginault offers is pretty darn good. At the current $1,2000 range for a new one, Ginault is king at what they do. The next brand that comes anywhere close to this type of quality would be Monta but they hang around $2,000 plus range for a new one.

What I stated are facts, true rep history. If you buy the expose put out by DeepDwell and the history he dug up then it's all there. But what is funny is, people like you who buy into the expose, believing Ginault is TC, but at the same time conveniently left out the rest of the information gathered. If Ginault is TC, which I personally believe is, then most likely many of his parts are made domestically. Like I said, if dude can make airplane parts that require super high tolerance.........

But what I read here is a lot of double standards from you. Do you know where in China VSF ZZF Clean and so on are made? I don't see you asking that question. Did you go ask Tag where their cases, bracelets, dial and hands are made while the watch hangs a Swiss Made logo? I am pretty sure even if you did they would not open up their production and supplier list. Talking about "lack of integrity, over charging, misdirects and just plain lying." I don't see you giving any shit to the current Swiss Made standards....why is that? You think besides the movement having the entire watch made in China but to displayed as Swiss Made isn't a misdirect or just plain lying?

Finally it's funny how you mention lack of integrity while we are here chatting on a replica forum. It just makes me laugh

I didn't say half of what you have written above.

So, if you know, WHERE is Ginault made exactly and do you have proof?

Steinhart also have Swiss movements in them at a third of the cost.

To me and others you sound like a hard sell shill for Ginault and you still haven't provided any proof about them NOT being fully Chinese made.

Integrity on a rep forum? Yep, ironic isn't it BUT Ginault are indeed a rep too.

$1200? Isn't that the bare bones entry level model which most wouldn't want??

 

[exia78]

Its from a 126XXX vsf bezel assembly. It may appear that way but it's actually only +0.32 difference from the stock Ginault OR2. To our eye...barely noticeable. If you see it in person, it's really not bad at all. Its like the new 41mm sports Rolex watches. They seem bigger, but in reality, they really aren't. Tapered lugs slims the watch down like this one. Appreciate the feedback. I modded the watch. I actually modded the watch to fix my stuck bezel issue. That has been my grind with Ginault. My bezel got stuck pretty bad after a couple months of ownership. I always had to adjust and clean it, basically take off the bezel assembly and clean. Why do we have to do this??? My conclusion was bad retaining ring being cnc'd too low and so it sat low, causing a lot of friction over time from dirt build up. I was right. My solution was to replace it with VSF retaining ring. It fit, had to sand it down a little to make it sit perfectly. Now, my ginault or vsf bezel can sit on it perfectly. I can swap back the assemblies and forth. Obviously, being 0.32 difference, the ceramic 38mm inserts will not fit Ginaults insert, unless you sand the insert down..I prefer just to swap the bezel assembly, 5 minute fix.

It would be cool if Ginault launches a green ceramic version but I don't think this is the route they are going. Rumors of a Silent Service model being released. If they follow what they did currently (copying parts or Rolex watches), I wouldn't be surprised that it would also be a combination of watches we all know and love (seiko, omega). Ginault has to come up with their own ideas, that's just me, otherwise they'll always have that rep that follows them. This is where I think they could shine but time will tell. I wouldn't buy another one if its a repeat of what they had just done.

Here's proof...Ginault bezel assembly is the one off the watch, of course.

Did you just say to our eyes? I like how you are trying to include but no..... Perhaps to YOUR eyes barely noticeable. You've been around here since 2015 you should know how many people here have the ability to discern differences. On this side of the circle that we travel in, .3mm is HUGE GIGANTIC difference, no offense.

The new 41mm 126610 is big. If you don't think it's that big after a few things, that's just the brain getting used to it. If you switch back to the 5-digit 40mm case, it would feel small initially but by the same token, after a few months it won't feel small after all.

My friends have the OR2s since the early days. Their bezels are tight to turn. Some dive with them so that would be exactly how they like it. Tight to turn then and tight to turn now, but never stuck.

I ordered mine and will be receiving it soon. I told John I want it to turn as how a 116610 would feel like, and he said no problem. Let's see

 

[GottaHave]

Did you just say to our eyes? I like how you are trying to include but no..... Perhaps to YOUR eyes barely noticeable. You've been around here since 2015 you should know how many people here have the ability to discern differences. On this side of the circle that we travel in, .3mm is HUGE GIGANTIC difference, no offense.

The new 41mm 126610 is big. If you don't think it's that big after a few things, that's just the brain getting used to it. If you switch back to the 5-digit 40mm case, it would feel small initially but by the same token, after a few months it won't feel small after all.

My friends have the OR2s since the early days. Their bezels are tight to turn. Some dive with them so that would be exactly how they like it. Tight to turn then and tight to turn now, but never stuck.

I ordered mine and will be receiving it soon. I told John I want it to turn as how a 116610 would feel like, and he said no problem. Let's see

Do YOU work for Ginault OR do you receive some form of commission for pushing their product regardless of what techs encounter and show & you denounce them?

Anyway, if you do, please let Ginault know that a proper stand alone website with true availability and true details about the product are shown will assist them with sales & not the cloak & dagger & shill approach they've employed to date.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Did you just say to our eyes? I like how you are trying to include but no..... Perhaps to YOUR eyes barely noticeable. You've been around here since 2015 you should know how many people here have the ability to discern differences. On this side of the circle that we travel in, .3mm is HUGE GIGANTIC difference, no offense.

The new 41mm 126610 is big. If you don't think it's that big after a few things, that's just the brain getting used to it. If you switch back to the 5-digit 40mm case, it would feel small initially but by the same token, after a few months it won't feel small after all.

My friends have the OR2s since the early days. Their bezels are tight to turn. Some dive with them so that would be exactly how they like it. Tight to turn then and tight to turn now, but never stuck.

I ordered mine and will be receiving it soon. I told John I want it to turn as how a 116610 would feel like, and he said no problem. Let's see

I like how it looks and think it looks great. When I say my eyes, it's my opinion, like you have yours. 0.3 is a lot for tolerances and builds...but if youre 5 feet away and can see then I am jealous of your eagle vision, you have good eyes or walk around with a loop..jk. Now, I am also able to swap to other ceramic inserts with this set up also. I just got a blue insert from Ali express, it looks pretty good. I have an early OR2...mine got to the point where it gets stuck. I purchased it used but it was only two months old. It had this issue within 4 months, a newer watch ($1000) shouldn't have this issue and being second hand I was told no warranty. Is what it is..

to give you an idea what 0.3 on a watch looks like..look below..it's less than a tic on an insert..if you can see that..you’re a true eagle

 

[exia78]

I didn't say half of what you have written above.

But you did and I quoted you for it.

So, if you know, WHERE is Ginault made exactly and do you have proof?

I don't know where exactly in the US they CNC the parts. But do you believe Ginault is TC? If so, what proof are you using to link them two?

Steinhart also have Swiss movements in them at a third of the cost.

So? what is your point? Are you saying quality wise Steinhart and Ginault are on part?

To me and others you sound like a hard sell shill for Ginault and you still haven't provided any proof about them NOT being fully Chinese made.

I don't work for Ginault nor do I gain from defending them. I participate on WUS and I buy and defend many other brands the same way when I read idiotic comments like yours.

Integrity on a rep forum? Yep, ironic isn't it BUT Ginault are indeed a rep too.

I am very convinced that Ginault is TC. But Ginault itself isn't a rep at all. The parts that they are using for the OR2, no rep guy would want to use it to make their rep more gen like.

$1200? Isn't that the bare bones entry level model which most wouldn't want??

$1200 range get you their flag ship models if their phase-2 pre-order is still on. I like how you don't even know about Ginault's prices and models and yet you are here commenting.

I also like how after your original idiotic comment about how Swiss Made is better than China made got blasted...you now pivot away from that.

But I am not going to follow your strategy, stop pivoting.

 

[exia78]

Do YOU work for Ginault OR do you receive some form of commission for pushing their product regardless of what techs encounter and show & you denounce them?

Anyway, if you do, please let Ginault know that a proper stand alone website with true availability and true details about the product are shown will assist them with sales & not the cloak & dagger & shill approach they've employed to date.

I don't work for Ginault nor do I receive any compensation for righting the wrong from idiotic and false comments from newb members who want to pretend they know their shit.

However, it is very strange every time people defend Ginault from idiotic and false comments, the very next reaction from the commenter would be "do you work for Ginault?" So what is this? Your ego is too big that you cannot be told that you are wrong? And when you are wrong you can't stand it? So the person who right your wrong must be a Ginault shill?

 

[exia78]

I like how it looks and think it looks great. When I say my eyes, it's my opinion, like you have yours. 0.3 is a lot for tolerances and builds...but if youre 5 feet away and can see then I am jealous of your eagle vision, you have good eyes or walk around with a loop..jk. Now, I am also able to swap to other ceramic inserts with this set up also. I just got a blue insert from Ali express, it looks pretty good. I have an early OR2...mine got to the point where it gets stuck. I purchased it used but it was only two months old. It had this issue within 4 months, a newer watch ($1000) shouldn't have this issue and being second hand I was told no warranty. Is what it is..

to give you an idea what 0.3 on a watch looks like..look below..it's less than a tic on an insert..if you can see that..you’re a true eagle

First let me say that I respect your personal aesthetical preference. No issues there. But to me, and I am sure to many others here that bezel assembly on the 5-digit style case looks proportionally different, and it stands the foook out. However, I have no objection to your comment, if I am few feet away, I would not be able to tell at all.

Thank you for giving me an idea of what .3mm looks like. Feel free to read up my previous posts. You should learn I am very familiar with micro distance.

But since you gave me an example, let me give you some examples too why many here consider .3mm a huge gigantic difference. This circle we travel in isn't the normal world. This is the place where remember when Noob back in the days had their rehault depth and tilt angle wrong by a TINY bit and that became a tell? This is the circle where the BB58 had the tiny bit longer crown and became a tell, this is the circle where even if you have 0.1mm of gap in between the lugs and SEL won't get GLed. So in htis world that we travel in, 1/10 of a mm matters.