Dial for an accidental 216570 franken?

[ssouthall6]

OK so those that know me well know I buy up a lot of parts. Usually with little strategy or plan in mind. This bizarre example was no exception.

I picked up a vr3185 when they first surfaced. Plan was a gm ii franken, gen parts were cheap at the time and I felt I could probably grab a sub case as they show up from time to time. Put it in my drawer, forgot about it.

Few months later a guy is selling a noob 216570 case, bracelet, dial and hands. Knowing nothing about the Explorer II I assume it's 40mm. With it he included a load of hands, an eta dial and bracelet and obviously I can't resist a bargain.

So I take a look at the case - good news, it was for a 2824 and I recall I have a vr3185 and think to myself....hmmm that can almost certainly fit the case. Then I find a spacer in the kit. Result!

Bad news is I knew from experience the dial would be no good as the dw is in the wrong position, not being interested in overlays, from what I can see, my only option is a gen dial. It looks like BP / GMF are a fall back - just checking anyone has an my experience with such a build and can confirm? It appears the gmf was the only model that used the sa3135 as a base for the gmt clone, but I'm not really aware of this model at all - I'm a ym/daytona guy.

I'll likely flip it anyway as the movement was intended for the arf batman until it disappointed so much, and we've seen some really impressive alternatives since that don't need the movement replaced so I'd really like to get the build finished - any advice on the dial appreciated! I can start bothering my TD or put out a wtb then.

Thx


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[KJ2020]

any advice on the dial appreciated

These models have a DW position the same as a DJ41 bro. That DW position is coincidentally the same as a native ETA or DG DW. So none of the rep 31xx movements will work with either a rep or gen dial, both of which have the date window in the same place. This is because those movements can't use a DWO to displace the dates to the right.

It's possible one of the new VSF 3235 movements made for the VSF DJ41 or the VSF YM 42 would work as they both have the same DW position as the EXP II. But IDK if that movement will fit the case and those dials are the next gen dials with no dial feet. So there are no feet holes in the movement.

3235 DJ4 dials

The GMF 216570 uses the 2824 CHS timebomb with fake 3187 engraving so that dial would be like your Noob.

https://trustytime.io/index.php?main...ducts_id=20140

You will probably be best off using an ETA or DG movement with a DWO that will sit right on top of the native DW and not be displaced 1mm to the left like other models require. These models come from the factory with such a DWO. You also will need a thicker movement holder to fill up the extra space in the 42mm case from using the smaller diameter ETA/DG movement.

 

[ssouthall6]

These models have a DW position the same as a DJ41 bro. That DW position is coincidentally the same as a native ETA or DG DW. So none of the rep 31xx movements will work with either a rep or gen dial, both of which have the date window in the same place. This is because those movements can't use a DWO to displace the dates to the right.

It's possible one of the new VSF 3235 movements made for the VSF DJ41 or the VSF YM 42 would work as they both have the same DW position as the EXP II. But IDK if that movement will fit the case and those dials are the next gen dials with no dial feet. So there are no feet holes in the movement.

3235 DJ4 dials

The GMF 216570 uses the 2824 CHS timebomb with fake 3187 engraving so that dial would be like your Noob.

https://trustytime.io/index.php?main...ducts_id=20140

You will probably be best off using an ETA or DG movement with a DWO that will sit right on top of the native DW and not be displaced 1mm to the left like other models require. These models come from the factory with such a DWO. You also will need a thicker movement holder to fill up the extra space in the 42mm case from using the smaller diameter ETA/DG movement.

KJ2020 thank you, I knew you would know!

@ado213..the saga continues

I'll probably try and get a dg gmt movement then, and use the vr3185 elsewhere, although by the time I get the chance there will no doubt be a perfect vsf Pepsi on jubilee


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[KJ2020]

KJ2020 thank you, I knew you would know!

@ado213..the saga continues

I'll probably try and get a dg gmt movement then, and use the vr3185 elsewhere, although by the time I get the chance there will no doubt be a perfect vsf Pepsi on jubilee


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You need a movement that you have hands for, as ETA and DG hands have different hole sizes. And there are 2 different sets of ETA hands, with different hole sizes. Aftermarket hands for this model are pretty much non-existent. You could ask a TD. Most likely you have ETA CHS hands - just compare your GMT and hour hands, if the hour hand hole is bigger that's it. And if so, the only movement that will fit those hands is the 2824 CHS timebomb.

H/M/S GMT
DG: 150/100/17 200
ETA ICHS: 150/90/25 200
ETA CHS: 200/90/25 150

 

[ssouthall6]

You need a movement that you have hands for, as ETA and DG hands have different hole sizes. And there are 2 different sets of ETA hands, with different hole sizes. Aftermarket hands for this model are pretty much non-existent. You could ask a TD.

H/M/S GMT
DG: 150/100/17 200
ETA ICHS: 150/90/25 200
ETA CHS: 200/90/25 150

Thanks mate, yeah luckily I have hands for pretty much any option!


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[ohmy]

If you need a gen dial please feel free to Check my sales thread for my gen explorer polar dial.

Anyway good luck with your build!

Tim


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[ssouthall6]

If you need a gen dial please feel free to Check my sales thread for my gen explorer polar dial.

Anyway good luck with your build!

Tim


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I saw it! If I was really interested in building a nice franken then I'd have bought it. Sadly at 42mm it's just too big for my wrists, so I'll finish it as efficiently as possible and flip it I think.


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[ssouthall6]

OK KJ2020 maybe you can help with this, I think I have 3-4 options, all of which result in ditching the 3185 and using it elsewhere.

I've got a noob 2824 CHS case, crystal, crown, stem, dial, hands...everything but the movement.

I've got a Raffles 1655 GMT hand for 2836 and a set of Mercedes DSSD hands for 2836, as well as a full DG3804 handset.

Option 1 - Turn ICHS. Get a HZ 6460 with the fat dw overlay. Use the 2836 GMT hand and pinch the canon pinion for the hour hand. Get the seconds hand with the extra long stem from Helenarou. Try and find a suitable dial spacer.

Option 2 - Get a DG 3804. Probs going to need an overlay or suitable DG dw.

Option 3 - Don't know if anyone has tried this, but maybe a 2932-2 or Sellita 330-1? Hands would fit. I guess issue would be clearance but again if I use the long stem from Helenarou might solve the problem?

Option 4 - Put it back in the drawer and go back to studying for my exam on Tuesday

 

[KJ2020]

Any ETA or DG movement choice would need the same movement holder, and DWO so those are givens.

The 1655 GMT hand is a different shape and probably shorter so I don't think that's going to be an option.

A 2893 takes a 180 GMT hand, that could come from Rafflestime. Then you could use a DG hour hand and the Noob CHS minute and second hands. Lume match could be an issue. Plus this is expensive for a watch you're just going to flip.

If you have a complete set of DG hands, that would probably be my first choice.

 

[ssouthall6]

Any ETA or DG movement choice would need the same movement holder, and DWO so those are givens.

The 1655 GMT hand is a different shape and probably shorter so I don't think that's going to be an option.

A 2893 takes a 180 GMT hand, that could come from Rafflestime. Then you could use a DG hour hand and the Noob CHS minute and second hands. Lume match could be an issue. Plus this is expensive for a watch you're just going to flip.

If you have a complete set of DG hands, that would probably be my first choice.

Thanks mate.

That would have been my first option too.

Ado offered another alternative - making either the 3187 or 3285 date disc fit on the 3185.

Looks like it could be possible with the 3187 as it uses the same wheel as the 3186. I'm wondering if the inside diameter matches that of the 3185 - if it does it might be a viable option too


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[KJ2020]

Thanks mate.

That would have been my first option too.

Ado offered another alternative - making either the 3187 or 3285 date disc fit on the 3185.

Looks like it could be possible with the 3187 as it uses the same wheel as the 3186. I'm wondering if the inside diameter matches that of the 3185 - if it does it might be a viable option too


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Hmm, IDK about that but if he says he can do it, he probably can! You would need all the hands posts modified too though or a whole new set of gen hands. The 3187 hands holes are all yet another different size from any of the hands you said you have.

 

[ssouthall6]

Hmm, IDK about that but if he says he can do it, he probably can! You would need all the hands posts modified too though or a whole new set of gen hands. The 3187 hands holes are all yet another different size from any of the hands you said you have.

Think I'm gonna go dg3804 after all mate. Quick question though - they do it with two types of date wheel (news to me) - any idea whether it's the small or large?

Also - I managed to snare a cheap arf 116610 case - might try and use the vr3185 in that because I just love buying parts without checking if they're compatibile first Any idea whether it's feasible to stick a GMT bezel on a sub?! I'm expecting to have to do some case mod or switch the caseback or something....cos nothing is straightforward, but I swear I read that occb2 used to do this


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[KJ2020]

Think I'm gonna go dg3804 after all mate. Quick question though - they do it with two types of date wheel (news to me) - any idea whether it's the small or large?

Also - I managed to snare a cheap arf 116610 case - might try and use the vr3185 in that because I just love buying parts without checking if they're compatibile first Any idea whether it's feasible to stick a GMT bezel on a sub?! I'm expecting to have to do some case mod or switch the caseback or something....cos nothing is straightforward, but I swear I read that occb2 used to do this


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You will likely need a DWO with a DG3804 unless you have or buy one that was already equipped with a Rolex font DWO. The stock DG3804 DW does not have Rolex fonts.

So it's really up to you to find one that you can live with.

My black BP 216570 has a DG3804 with a DWO whose fonts are really a little too small. But other than that the watch is truly great, having come from Nembo for $210. I'm not inclined to fool with it unless the movement needs work. I don't particularly like working on DG's, the second hand pinion is .17mm and will snap off if your tweezer finger twitches. And the post tip can get stuck in the hand hole. Plus taking the combined bridge off to get to the wheel to replace it is a nightmare proposition that I doubt I will ever try again.

My white BP 216570 has a larger font DWO, perhaps a tad too large but again I'm not inclined to fool with it as these DWO's are not all that common or easy to source. The 216570 date window is in the same place as a DJ41, so one of those DWO's could be used. It would have to be sliced off the DW and reglued to the DG DW.

You can put a GMT insert in a Sub bezel, and live with it rotating only one way and in 120 clicks instead of 24. Or you can transfer the whole GMT bezel, retaining ring, 3 pin click ring, etc. There's no guarantee everything will fit perfectly with varied rep parts. And this would not be an option with a 216570 bezel, if that's what you were wondering. Those bezels are too big.

 

[ssouthall6]

You will likely need a DWO with a DG3804 unless you have or buy one that was already equipped with a Rolex font DWO. The stock DG3804 DW does not have Rolex fonts.

So it's really up to you to find one that you can live with.

My black BP 216570 has a DG3804 with a DWO whose fonts are really a little too small. But other than that the watch is truly great, having come from Nembo for $210. I'm not inclined to fool with it unless the movement needs work. I don't particularly like working on DG's, the second hand pinion is .17mm and will snap off if your tweezer finger twitches. And the post tip can get stuck in the hand hole. Plus taking the combined bridge off to get to the wheel to replace it is a nightmare proposition that I doubt I will ever try again.

My white BP 216570 has a larger font DWO, perhaps a tad too large but again I'm not inclined to fool with it as these DWO's are not all that common or easy to source. The 216570 date window is in the same place as a DJ41, so one of those DWO's could be used. It would have to be sliced off the DW and reglued to the DG DW.

You can put a GMT insert in a Sub bezel, and live with it rotating only one way and in 120 clicks instead of 24. Or you can transfer the whole GMT bezel, retaining ring, 3 pin click ring, etc. There's no guarantee everything will fit perfectly with varied rep parts. And this would not be an option with a 216570 bezel, if that's what you were wondering. Those bezels are too big.

Haha no I wasn't going down that route!

Hmm...maybe I go ICHS then. Those 2836 are quite easy to get hold of. Decisions decisions!

Good to know about the case. I'll pull the trigger and hope for the best. Thanks for your help as always my friend!


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[KJ2020]

Haha no I wasn't going down that route!

Hmm...maybe I go ICHS then. Those 2836 are quite easy to get hold of. Decisions decisions!

Good to know about the case. I'll pull the trigger and hope for the best. Thanks for your help as always my friend!


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2836 ICHS is always a good choice if you have a set of hands for it. You will still need a 216570 or DJ41 DWO to shift the dates back to the native ETA/DG position.

 

[ssouthall6]

2836 ICHS is always a good choice if you have a set of hands for it. You will still need a 216570 or DJ41 DWO to shift the dates back to the native ETA/DG position.

Yeah it's probably the best bet. Dwo should be OK...looks like me going cap in hand to the TD's if they can remember who I am haha. Thank you again!


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[Swiss_goupil]

How is this project going?


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[ssouthall6]

Swiss_goupil I think I'm pretty much there now. Used an eta and a 41mm dj date wheel. Ado finishing it now

 

[ssouthall6]

KJ2020 guess what? Made the schoolboy error of forgetting the 0.4mm stem height difference on the vr3185 vs 3135. Tried fitting it in an ARF sub case and shock horror, it still doesn't fit

So I think that project might just end in selling the parts. Or building a sub and selling the gmt parts. I realise I could shave the dial, mill the movement side of the case, etc...but I could also sell the parts and be grateful with what I've got, maybe buy a BLRO in the future if a factory nail it instead of getting adrian machining cases!!

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020 guess what? Made the schoolboy error of forgetting the 0.4mm stem height difference on the vr3185 vs 3135. Tried fitting it in an ARF sub case and shock horror, it still doesn't fit

So I think that project might just end in selling the parts. Or building a sub and selling the gmt parts. I realise I could shave the dial, mill the movement side of the case, etc...but I could also sell the parts and be grateful with what I've got, maybe buy a BLRO in the future if a factory nail it instead of getting adrian machining cases!!

Ack, too bad bro. They are nice pieces but sometimes a pile of parts just doesn't add up to watch you can be happy with. I've been there...