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ARF Daytona ID?

Tomtank

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First of all, I wanted to thank those experts and contributors who have made this site such a mine of information. I’ve done a lot of reading (and searching) specifically on Daytonas. I think I’m close to understanding a few things.


I’ve read these big threads more than once and many other minor ones.


{{ NOOB V3 Daytona vs Gen Daytona vs ARF V2 Daytona }} - Replica Watch Info

Noob V4 Daytona's - Replica Watch Info

116519ln Noob v2 just arrived - Replica Watch Info

Daytona Appreciation - Post Your Daytona Pics & Opinion - Replica Watch Info

Now, I bought a few watches in China in 2019 before I knew anything at all about replicas/copies/fakes, except that many were truly terrible and should be avoided. This was long before I knew about this forum and became a member. Some friends and work colleagues in China put me onto a local dealer who they trusted and he seemed legit.

I bought 3 cheap fakes (I won’t call them replicas because they weren’t and aren’t. Just facsimiles of the genuine, but actually for £50-65, they were surprisingly good at first sight. Obviously not once you know more and look closer).

Appetite whetted, I then bought what was described to me as a “high quality” version of my favourite Daytona, the 116500LN black dial. The local dealer (not a TD but I am not giving contact details or plugging him) told me that it was ARF and 904L steel, but bear in mind that this was before I even knew what those meant. But I liked what I saw and bought it in Nov 19 for 3200RMB which was about £340 at the time.

I’ve been very happy with it. Now I know just a little bit more, it seems to have some of the qualities that people associate with the ARF versions (bracelet and clasp, bezel etc, but maybe the dial doesn’t look so close to ARF? ) and it has faux subdials at 3 and 9 as expected. It came with packaging, tags and stickers that look similar to what some others have posted about ARF watches.

But I would love for an expert to confirm, or not, from these photos (which are as good as I can manage right now, sorry) that it looks like an ARF that might have been on sale just over a year ago. Or if not, what it actually is.

It won’t make much difference to me one way or the other tbh. I will sell it one day and I will sell it truthfully. I have recently bought a Noob V4 black dial 116500, as well as the latest Noob 116519LN and a VSF 116610LN - all those stemming from advice from good people on this forum.

So, can someone help me confirm what version this is?

ZrBPt5.jpg


ZrBCep.jpg


ZrBlSb.jpg


ZrBQPi.jpg


ZrBBmX.jpg


ZrB84I.jpg


ZrB6y4.jpg


ZrBnHj.jpg


ZrB1E1.jpg


ZrByrv.jpg


ZrBYeK.jpg


ZrBIS8.jpg





Thank you in advance.
 

Tony Clifton

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Strange specimen you have here. The watch does not look like an ARF to me:

- the 5 liner dial printing is to thick and not crisp enough,
- the markers look rather flat and not as nicely rounded and polished as regular ARF markers
- the bezel font especially the "Units Per Hour" is to thin
- the clasp Encoding is the one of a White Gold model and not the regular ARF clasp Code for steel models.

So if I would have to guess it can be a mix up of different REP parts but not a regular ARF.
 
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Tobel

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If you let the Chrono run for more than a minute, does the minute subdial increment? Or is it fixed?

Thats typical of ARF

A picture from the side showing thickness would also help
 
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Tomtank

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Thank you, that is very helpful. I figured given I knew nothing at all and went on blind trust at the time, that I might not have what I was told.

Yes the chrono runs exactly as ARF are expected to. Both my Noobs run as full 4130 so I have the comparison.

Thickness is 13.7mm
 

Tomtank

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Thank you for the advice and opinion so far. Any further help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 

Tomtank

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A few months on…..

The plot thickens.

I was wrong about the chronograph. I don’t know how or why, but I was. I could have sworn I tried it and only the large second hand worked but I can’t have been very thorough.

start:

jYCiBX.jpg


few seconds in:

jYCqKb.jpg


10 mins:

jYCmRi.jpg


20 mins:

jYCa5c.jpg


2 hrs 27 mins:

jYCOs5.jpg


3hrs:

jYCI9p.jpg




So it works as it is supposed to? I mean, unless Harry Potter has just turned up and given it a potion or a spell or something, it must have always worked but I am too thick to notice.

Next step will be to get a photo of the movement with the caseback off. I’m intrigued to find out what it is.
 

VG87

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So it works as it is supposed to? I mean, unless Harry Potter has just turned up and given it a potion or a spell or something, it must have always worked but I am too thick to notice.

As Mr. Clifton said above it might be a mix of parts. The bezel font doesn't look like ARF. IMO letters and numbers are too big. However I can see serifs on the Rs *units peR houR) and working chrono on a 13.7mm thick case. This might indicate an early noob version with 7750 movement (I think I saw them on few TDs' websites). Clasp is for WG models and not stainless steel.

Can you tell us if hour setting is clockwise to go forward? And how noisy the rotor is? I'm far from being an expert so I just put my thoughts in writing. I'm sure there are more experienced people here that can chime in and enlighten us.

Maybe master KJ2020 will do his magic and tell us even from which factory the screws and spring bars are with his X-ray vision!
 

Tomtank

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As Mr. Clifton said above it might be a mix of parts. The bezel font doesn't look like ARF. IMO letters and numbers are too big. However I can see serifs on the Rs *units peR houR) and working chrono on a 13.7mm thick case. This might indicate an early noob version with 7750 movement (I think I saw them on few TDs' websites). Clasp is for WG models and not stainless steel.

Can you tell us if hour setting is clockwise to go forward? And how noisy the rotor is? I'm far from being an expert so I just put my thoughts in writing. I'm sure there are more experienced people here that can chime in and enlighten us.

Maybe master KJ2020 will do his magic and tell us even from which factory the screws and spring bars are with his X-ray vision!

Thanks for your reply. Time setting is anti-clockwise to go forwards. Rotor is audible, unlike my two recent “real” Noobs. I will try to get a photo of the movement in the next few days.
 

Tomtank

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KJ2020

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Thank you. I bought this in Nov 2019 - were these around then? I thought they were a pretty recent arrival?

No they were not.

I made an assumption based on a recent posting.

Can you show a side view?

Since the subdials work it can't be an ARF sold before the slim A7750s came out. I think its possible for an ARF to be refitted with a slim A7750 but IDK of any being done yet. It can't be a Noob 4130 due to hand movements with the crown. The old Noob A7750s were very thick, but 138 is a clasp code that Noob has used.


jzs8I1.jpg
 
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Tomtank

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Thank you for your help and expertise.

here you go:

jYd1vs.jpg
 

KJ2020

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Thank you for your help and expertise.
here you go:
jYd1vs.jpg

A 2019 model at 13.7mm with A7750 hand movements and working chronos is unheard of. JF made some very nice slim Daytonas back then but not with working chronos. Your running seconds hand doesn't tick does it? As in quartz, lol.
 
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Tomtank

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A 2019 model at 13.7mm with A7750 hand movements and working chronos is unheard of. JF made some very nice slim Daytonas back then but not with working chronos. Your running seconds hand doesn't tick does it? As in quartz, lol.

Haha - no not quartz. This is definitely mechanical/automatic.

Once I get the caseback off maybe there will be a bit more to go on, but I guarantee this was bought in person in Shanghai from a dealer there in Nov 2019. I don’t know why he told me it was ARF - maybe he didn’t even know himself and I certainly had no clue. How little I knew back then, even compared to the tiny amount I know now. I measured it with a digital micrometer (which I know how to use as I have another hobby requiring its accuracy).

I’m becoming more intrigued by this. Thanks for your interest and help.
 
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Tomtank

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Caseback off:

jyUxqJ.jpg


Thickness confirmed at 13.7mm and chronos definitely work