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Ceramic to pre ceramic?

Kalev007

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If one who knows ceramic subs really good is starting to develop an interest towards pre ceramic models but has zero knowledge in that field what would be a good rep to start the journey with (sub or SD) ?

Would the JF 16610LN be on a similar level like the new sub releases (ZZF, Clean, ZF) in terms of being gen looking (case, hands, dial, bezel, rehaut, DW, crystal and so on) ?

I've read ARF 16610 is considered a quite bad release so that's probably off the table.

TC's I know but those are hard to find.
 

bootlegboy

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ARF and JF is the same factory but ARF makes the 16610 in 904L. To me that’s a good starting point. Maybe try the BP SD? That’s a solid choice and doesn’t break the bank either.
 
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p0pperini

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If one who knows ceramic subs really good is starting to develop an interest towards pre ceramic models but has zero knowledge in that field what would be a good rep to start the journey with (sub or SD) ?

Would the JF 16610LN be on a similar level like the new sub releases (ZZF, Clean, ZF) in terms of being gen looking (case, hands, dial, bezel, rehaut, DW, crystal and so on) ?

I've read ARF 16610 is considered a quite bad release so that's probably off the table.

TC's I know but those are hard to find.

Depends if you want to buy new from a TD or pick one up M2M. If new, then the ARF is your only option for a Sub. It's not perfect by a long shot - particularly in comparison to the latest 6-digits. Some BP 5-digit Subs can still be had from some TDs I think, and you might still get a 5 digit SD (BP) from a TD too. But BP is more about being really great value for money than highest degree of rep accuracy.

Really nicely modded and/or frankened watches come up for sale regularly. That's been my preferred route into 5 digit ownership.

And I still think your profile pic is the best graphics I ever did.
 

Kalev007

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ARF and JF is the same factory but ARF makes the 16610 in 904L. To me that’s a good starting point. Maybe try the BP SD? That’s a solid choice and doesn’t break the bank either.

Thanks, pre-ceramic SD's are really nice if there would be a high end version of these available would get one definitely.

Depends if you want to buy new from a TD or pick one up M2M. If new, then the ARF is your only option for a Sub. It's not perfect by a long shot - particularly in comparison to the latest 6-digits. Some BP 5-digit Subs can still be had from some TDs I think, and you might still get a 5 digit SD (BP) from a TD too. But BP is more about being really great value for money than highest degree of rep accuracy.

Really nicely modded and/or frankened watches come up for sale regularly. That's been my preferred route into 5 digit ownership.

And I still think your profile pic is the best graphics I ever did.

Thanks I was just about to tag you as I know you're really into the 5 digits.

Both routes are okay the ARF being probably the easiest one to go but have to keep my eye on the M2M also.

Have to do my research on the ARF in terms how good it is I like to keep just a few watches and keep them as gen as possible that's why I have the new Clean no-date inbound to replace my V2S no-date which replaced my V2 no-date all during last 6 months.

Regarding the graphic if I had the original print file I would have it printed and framed as well.
 
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p0pperini

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Have to do my research on the ARF in terms how good it is I like to keep just a few watches and keep them as gen as possible that's why I have the new Clean no-date inbound to replace my V2S no-date which replaced my V2 no-date all during last 6 months.
That sounds like an eminently sensible approach. I really need to take a leaf out of your book...

You'd hope that the ARF will improve - if they continue to produce it. I'm sure there must still be enough of a commercial demand for 5 digit reps. If not, then, well... that's depressing.
 
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muiramas

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If one who knows ceramic subs really good is starting to develop an interest towards pre ceramic models but has zero knowledge in that field what would be a good rep to start the journey with (sub or SD) ?

Would the JF 16610LN be on a similar level like the new sub releases (ZZF, Clean, ZF) in terms of being gen looking (case, hands, dial, bezel, rehaut, DW, crystal and so on) ?

I've read ARF 16610 is considered a quite bad release so that's probably off the table.

TC's I know but those are hard to find.

I would start looking in 2 places.

The TS Watch site has lots of the older models all neatly in one place. They are not a TD, so just send your TD the link. TS Watch prices are without service - if its lost / seized its on you, but I have never known a TD not to match their price. Buy something you like rather than basing it on build quality as none of these older ones are amazing in that respect including the ARF. The second place to look is on the Vintage subform. Its a great resource and some of the builds in there are works of art.

I've dabbled a bit in the older / vintage stuff. If you want a good rep from 90's-00's I would get either the BP Seadweller 16600 or the BP GMT 16710 - You can easily find a black insert if you want to tone it down a bit. KJ had a great thread on that one here.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-review-vs-gen

These older ones feel a lot lighter and less substantial than the current 6 digits, that goes for rep and gen and you can expect to do some re-finishing / refining on the bracelets and clasp when you get it. Why not get the Seadweller to begin with which is a great rep. It will be easy to sell if you want to move it on. If you do like them you'll probably get more, and start messing around with them, and spending even more money....



IMG-4230.jpg


IMG-0652.jpg
 
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StreetFighter

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Being a crown guard/case shape fetishist, there has never been a 16610 rep that has accurate crown guards that I could live with. It’s one of the only things you can do nothing about to improve it too (unless they are too big and can be shaved, but if too stumpy there is nowhere to go). I think JF had better CG’s than the current ARF (but not perfect). The JF clasp feels pretty poor (more light than genuine because the metal is thinner) and the bracelets would snap pins (mine went at the end link with the end link still attached to the watch).

The JF sub was heading in the right direction, I wish they had kept evolving it. I’d look for one of those to mod.. I had a gen crown, insert, gaskets and bracelet on mine.
 

Kalev007

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I would start looking in 2 places.

The TS Watch site has lots of the older models all neatly in one place. They are not a TD, so just send your TD the link. TS Watch prices are without service - if its lost / seized its on you, but I have never known a TD not to match their price. Buy something you like rather than basing it on build quality as none of these older ones are amazing in that respect including the ARF. The second place to look is on the Vintage subform. Its a great resource and some of the builds in there are works of art.

I've dabbled a bit in the older / vintage stuff. If you want a good rep from 90's-00's I would get either the BP Seadweller 16600 or the BP GMT 16710 - You can easily find a black insert if you want to tone it down a bit. KJ had a great thread on that one here.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-review-vs-gen

These older ones feel a lot lighter and less substantial than the current 6 digits, that goes for rep and gen and you can expect to do some re-finishing / refining on the bracelets and clasp when you get it. Why not get the Seadweller to begin with which is a great rep. It will be easy to sell if you want to move it on. If you do like them you'll probably get more, and start messing around with them, and spending even more money....



IMG-4230.jpg


IMG-0652.jpg

Thanks a lot that really helps.

The SD is a great watch I've always preferred the SD pre ceramic models more.

Now it's been recommended twice I assume the one meant is this - https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_8&products_id=16539

Out of the ARF and BP I dig the SD more so that might be the way to start the journey unless the ARF in terms of details like hands, markers, dial etc won't be that much better. I know my OCD will kick in hard when you learn more. Luckily with these models there won't be new releases over every couple of months so you can mod the one you have already.
 

muiramas

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Thanks a lot that really helps.

The SD is a great watch I've always preferred the SD pre ceramic models more.

Now it's been recommended twice I assume the one meant is this - https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_8&products_id=16539

Out of the ARF and BP I dig the SD more so that might be the way to start the journey unless the ARF in terms of details like hands, markers, dial etc won't be that much better. I know my OCD will kick in hard when you learn more. Luckily with these models there won't be new releases over every couple of months so you can mod the one you have already.

Yes mate. Thats the one - but I got mine with a 2824. One last thing - they bezel action on a lot of these is ghastly. But you'll have fun sourcing click springs and a new insert as well. I changed mine from the pic above - its better now.
 

lucadotti

You're Saying I Can Sell?
muiramas I recently got into this game and a 16600 was my first. Well technically my second... I received it first, though! (I bought three watches in a week, uh oh...). The only place I am finding myself dissatisfied is the bezel. It's a bit wiggly and the "coin-edge" of mine seems to be really dull and not grippy. Any suggestions as to where to source a great bezel would be appreciated.

Note: my bezel insert is actually awesome. Just the right amount of natural wear for a 16600. Just the wiggly mechanism and the coin-edge ring are a issue.

Best,
 

muiramas

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muiramas I recently got into this game and a 16600 was my first. Well technically my second... I received it first, though! (I bought three watches in a week, uh oh...). The only place I am finding myself dissatisfied is the bezel. It's a bit wiggly and the "coin-edge" of mine seems to be really dull and not grippy. Any suggestions as to where to source a great bezel would be appreciated.

Note: my bezel insert is actually awesome. Just the right amount of natural wear for a 16600. Just the wiggly mechanism and the coin-edge ring are a issue.

Best,

The coin edges of these older Subs / Sea Dwellers are less sharp and grippy than the 6 digit ones - just the way they are. You may want to look at a $30 replacement for the insert - the markings on the rep are a bit too blobby and bold and the quality of finish is poor. It's the first thing most people do when they get theirs.

To sort out the wiggly bezel, pop it off and put 3 equidistant creases in the metal tensioner ring which sits between the bezel and the case. That should make it a lot tighter. To get a more positive 'click' you'll need to replace the little metal wire which will fall out and get lost in your carpet when you pop the bezel off - easily found on eBay.
 

lucadotti

You're Saying I Can Sell?
The coin edges of these older Subs / Sea Dwellers are less sharp and grippy than the 6 digit ones - just the way they are. You may want to look at a $30 replacement for the insert - the markings on the rep are a bit too blobby and bold and the quality of finish is poor. It's the first thing most people do when they get theirs.

To sort out the wiggly bezel, pop it off and put 3 equidistant creases in the metal tensioner ring which sits between the bezel and the case. That should make it a lot tighter. To get a more positive 'click' you'll need to replace the little metal wire which will fall out and get lost in your carpet when you pop the bezel off - easily found on eBay.

my bezel edge is noticeable dull compared to other 16600 that I see; in fact, it’s difficult to turn as it has little to no grip. Maybe it’s just pictures... I’ll post some pics of mine later. Any recommendations on where to source a new insert and possibly bezel edge. I feel like eBay can be a crap shoot. I’ll definitely do the equidistant bend trick and order the wire lol.