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Alternative 16610lv

masterpiece777

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Why the JF is considered to have a better case over the new 904L ARF?
Don’t haven’t seen both IRL Only a great comparison from a other member in the ARF 16610LV ARF thread(really loads of value information about the Kermit there).
But when looking at the pictures i really can’t see why it’s considered to be better I order of the case shape?

I have ordered the ARF myself,
And invest a lot of money to Franken it,
So I really want to build the best and closest to gen Kermit.

Gen parts I had bought so far:
3135 (non parachrome hairspring)
DW
NON AR, with LEC XTAL.
CROWN
B4 insert (NOS)
Clickspring.
Springbars

And considering to buy gen hands as well.
I want to see the ARF in hands first,to me the 3D
Shape looks very good on the pics
And since the gen maxi LV dials are a bridge to far for me(5K!!)
since i am afraid the color of the lume are to much different.




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mari115

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Why the JF is considered to have a better case over the new 904L ARF?
Don’t haven’t seen both IRL Only a great comparison from a other member in the ARF 16610LV ARF thread(really loads of value information about the Kermit there).
But when looking at the pictures i really can’t see why it’s considered to be better I order of the case shape?

I have ordered the ARF myself,
And invest a lot of money to Franken it,
So I really want to build the best and closest to gen Kermit.

Gen parts I had bought so far:
3135 (non parachrome hairspring)
DW
NON AR, with LEC XTAL.
CROWN
B4 insert (NOS)
Clickspring.
Springbars

And considering to buy gen hands as well.
I want to see the ARF in hands first,to me the 3D
Shape looks very good on the pics
And since the gen maxi LV dials are a bridge to far for me(5K!!)
since i am afraid the color of the lume are to much different.




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the crownguards in the ARF are different from each other, they are not perfectly specular. Sometimes the bezel comes very loose and won't click unless you put pressure on it, the clasp safety is too big, and in general it's not the best.

JF was better overall, ARF is not worth 100$ more than JF's.

They updated the cost, and made shit worse, they didn't improve anything at all on it. 904L is useless and it's just marketing bullshit. It's not worth 100$ for sure, especially if it costs them like 10$ for the 904l instead of 2.5 $ for 316L
 

masterpiece777

Active Member
17/6/19
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the crownguards in the ARF are different from each other, they are not perfectly specular. Sometimes the bezel comes very loose and won't click unless you put pressure on it, the clasp safety is too big, and in general it's not the best.

JF was better overall, ARF is not worth 100$ more than JF's.

They updated the cost, and made shit worse, they didn't improve anything at all on it. 904L is useless and it's just marketing bullshit. It's not worth 100$ for sure, especially if it costs them like 10$ for the 904l instead of 2.5 $ for 316L

Thanks for you’re detailed explanation,so case and clasp is better from the JF?
And if change the click spring on the ARF would this solved the problem?

And what should be in your opinion the best build for Kermit,I am really an ARF fan especially for the bracelets.
But I want to have to get as close as possible with al these gen parts i have now.




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mari115

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9/6/18
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And if change the click spring on the ARF would this solved the problem?

I'm not sure about this, it's about tolerances for every single watch. Also, you could get one that works perfectly and has a very tight bezel, the tolerances are all over the place for this model in particular.

In my opinion JF's case was way better.

Forget about ARF's good bracelet if you talk about 16610 (5 digit) models, they are all rattly since they are empty inside, even the gen, looks like they are made of chinese tin.

The best you could do would be getting an ARF, get lucky with bezel and case, and swap crystal, date, insert and clasp.

Some people swap in a ginault bracelet since they are heavy and solid, they are full inside (just for personal feeling, since the gen is empty and rattly).
 
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masterpiece777

Active Member
17/6/19
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EUROPE
I'm not sure about this, it's about tolerances for every single watch. Also, you could get one that works perfectly and has a very tight bezel, the tolerances are all over the place for this model in particular.

In my opinion JF's case was way better.

Forget about ARF's good bracelet if you talk about 16610 (5 digit) models, they are all rattly since they are empty inside, even the gen, looks like they are made of chinese tin.

The best you could do would be getting an ARF, get lucky with bezel and case, and swap crystal, date, insert and clasp.

Some people swap in a ginault bracelet since they are heavy and solid, they are full inside (just for personal feeling, since the gen is empty and rattly).
Aan thinks sir,

but is the claps from JF beter than the ARF or you mean to swap for a gen clasp?
 

mclarendude

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I went for the BP option and upgraded the movement to a VR3135. Satisfied my 5 digit itch nicely.
 
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Redheart

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I went for the BP option and upgraded the movement to a VR3135. Satisfied my 5 digit itch nicely.

Oh can you please tell us if it's a straight switch? I am fancying a two tone BP and put a gen dial and insert on it?
I heard the insert will have to be shave off, but what about the DW on the BP and the cyclop position please?
 

Redheart

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If I read it correctly the Ginault have a ETA so will need a DW overlay if I put a 3135 in and gen dial? What about cyclop position?
 
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KJ2020

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Oh can you please tell us if it's a straight switch? I am fancying a two tone BP and put a gen dial and insert on it?
I heard the insert will have to be shave off, but what about the DW on the BP and the cyclop position please?

There are 3 different BP 16610 versions. They all have non gen-spec bezel, insert and crystal. The crystals have a straight edge profile at 30.5mm. The gen has a stairstep edge profile, the lower smaller diameter step where the gasket fits is 29.5mm.

DG/ETA - has date window and cyclops in the DG/ETA position.

3135 - has date window and cyclops in the Rolex position . A VR3135 is a direct swap for the SA3135.

The only way to fit a gen-spec crystal on either is to use two gaskets. You have to fill the extra gap left by the stairstep. This works OK, I've done it a few times and the extra gasket is not noticeable unless you are looking for it.

The inserts are 30.6mm / 37.5mm
Gen is 30.6mm / ~37.65mm

Most gen-spec inserts would lose too much outer border from shaving, you would eat into the numbers. There are aftermarket inserts that fit.

Some more info and pics here. Kermit is a few pages in.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/7975966-just-in-bp-16613lb
 

KJ2020

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If I read it correctly the Ginault have a ETA so will need a DW overlay if I put a 3135 in and gen dial? What about cyclop position?

Ginault comes with gen 2824. If you put a 3135 in you need a DW, which normally comes on a 3135. The VR3135 DW is good enough to not need a gen for many people. A 3135 cannot use an overlay. The Ginault 2824 overlay is quite nice. Ginault date window is in the Rolex position, so is the cyclops. A gen dial or rep 3135 dial like ARF and a 3135 movement and DW will line up properly.
 
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popi2020

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is it still possible to order JF at present?
 

Redheart

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Ginault comes with gen 2824. If you put a 3135 in you need a DW, which normally comes on a 3135. The VR3135 DW is good enough to not need a gen for many people. A 3135 cannot use an overlay. The Ginault 2824 overlay is quite nice. Ginault date window is in the Rolex position, so is the cyclops. A gen dial or rep 3135 dial like ARF and a 3135 movement and DW will line up properly.

Oh right I forgot about the nice TC overlay ^^
So maybe the Ginault could make a nice watch with a gen dial with clipped off feet! ^^, and I would be able to use my gen insert straight in then.
 
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Redheart

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There are 3 different BP 16610 versions. They all have non gen-spec bezel, insert and crystal. The crystals have a straight edge profile at 30.5mm. The gen has a stairstep edge profile, the lower smaller diameter step where the gasket fits is 29.5mm.

DG/ETA - has date window and cyclops in the DG/ETA position.

3135 - has date window and cyclops in the Rolex position . A VR3135 is a direct swap for the SA3135.

The only way to fit a gen-spec crystal on either is to use two gaskets. You have to fill the extra gap left by the stairstep. This works OK, I've done it a few times and the extra gasket is not noticeable unless you are looking for it.

The inserts are 30.6mm / 37.5mm
Gen is 30.6mm / ~37.65mm

Most gen-spec inserts would lose too much outer border from shaving, you would eat into the numbers. There are aftermarket inserts that fit.

Some more info and pics here. Kermit is a few pages in.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/7975966-just-in-bp-16613lb

Thanks for the precious info dear KJ! I always forget about the shaving needed on the insert. Thing is I have a thing for gen blue inserts and the shaving is a deal breaker. I might have to go fantasie and get the Ginault when the funds are ready :

Dial was dirt cheap, so clipping the feet is no problem. Still that's a lot of dough for a fantasy watch ^^



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KJ2020

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Oh right I forgot about the nice TC overlay ^^
So maybe the Ginault could make a nice watch with a gen dial with clipped off feet! ^^, and I would be able to use my gen insert straight in then.

It would indeed bro
 

McDuck888

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In my BP I put a gen B25-295-CAR-C1 crystal in with the BP gasket just for fun while I waited for the watch I’d truly bought the crystal for to arrive. I’ve almost no knowledge of Xtal use but it looks great to me. I put a TC bluesy dial in too with its feet clipped and dial dots while I waited for the watch I truly wanted to use these pieces in to arrive. Gen champagne datewheel in too etc.. because it was the SA3135 bp version I’d bought. The stock insert on the BP is gorgeous to me.. It’s nicer looking than half of my few bluesy inserts so I was looking into how to swap the pearl only BP for gen pearl but if that’s tricky, I’d shave the gen insert (gen was a teeny bit too big to click into the bezel naturally).
I’d just been messing with the BP with spare parts I have in a drawer and experimenting a little. :)
 

McDuck888

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KJ I’ve gotta ask you sometime about your mention of using two gaskets with a gen crystal in a BP and the stair-step thing. It sounds like something I should learn about. I put a gen Xtal with stock BP gasket in a BP while I was testing out my new crystal press. Would be epic to understand a little more about how proper two gaskets would be by comparison on a BP.. sounds like I needs to learns me something nice as I learn to use this thing more and more