Replacing SH3186 with VR3185. Recommended parts and process?

[Goon3r]

Hi everyone,

Firstly, apologies as i'm sure this has been asked here multiple times before and to be honest i once saw a thread on this that had all this information in, after searching all morning i couldn't find it so i've had to go down the route of creating another thread dedicated to this.

A few months ago now i purchased the ARF 116710 LN SH3186 and have been meatning to replace the movement within it to the more reliable VR3185.

I have purchased the VR3185 so i have that ready to go, but i have a few questions.

What are the recommended gen parts to swap into the VR3185 to improve reliability?

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I have read that (much like the SH3186) it is recommended to replace the jumping hour module. So i have part number 3185-660 on my list.

Are the any parts required so the movements can actually be swapped?

I remember reading KJ2020 talking about swapping these movments and having problems with the hands and needed to pinch one of these? And possible recommended either a gen minute/hour wheel? Does anyone know what the part number for that would be?

Are there any other gotcha's i should be aware of?

Obviously i want the swap to go as smoothly as possible and im happy to buy any of the required gen parts people here recommend.

Also if recommended part suffixes/versions need to be paired with other versions etc, please let me know.

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So the summarise the 'waffle' above, what parts do we all recommend to improve reliability of the VR3185? Did anyone run into any problems swapping these movements?

Thanks alot for any advice, much appreciated!

 

[s.orologiaio]

Hi. It’s ok to replace the 660, wash and lubricate all gmt-date parts. Then try if date mechanism and all wheels works properly without excessive endshakes, if date flips always perfectly. Otherwise it’s necessary to replace date indicator seating with a gen one , but in vr it uses to work good


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[s.orologiaio]

It’s impossible to say if you need to mod hands holes. In theory you don’t have to, wheels sizes are the same gen-vr, But sometimes it can happen some slight difference. It’s enough to tighten or enlarge a little the holes and they are ok !


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[KJ2020]

I keep a spare 3185-660 on hand but so far have not needed to use it. All the hands wobble a little when hour jumping but this is a characteristic of the gen also. So I would just use the VR3185 OOTB and see how it goes. The last one I fitted with ARF hands all the hands fit tight so cross your fingers. I've had to crimp GMT and minute hands, and broach a second hand before. I have not tried to fit any gen wheels so I can't answer that. I have read that the ARF won't take a gen second wheel (second hand), and the VR will swap with an ARF second wheel (had to do that once, the pinion snapped off), so I would conclude the VR won't take a gen second wheel. Someone else had an ARF second hand not fit the VR second wheel, so swapping in the ARF second wheel is an alternative to broaching the second hand.

 

[KJ2020]

This is a great resource to look up part numbers

https://evergreenparts.de/spare-Parts-for-Rolex-only_for_Information

 

[s.orologiaio]

I keep a spare 3185-660 on hand but so far have not needed to use it. All the hands wobble a little when hour jumping but this is a characteristic of the gen also. So I would just use the VR3185 OOTB and see how it goes. The last one I fitted with ARF hands all the hands fit tight so cross your fingers. I've had to crimp GMT and minute hands, and broach a second hand before. I have not tried to fit any gen wheels so I can't answer that. I have read that the ARF won't take a gen second wheel (second hand), and the VR will swap with an ARF second wheel (had to do that once, the pinion snapped off), so I would conclude the VR won't take a gen second wheel. Someone else had an ARF second hand not fit the VR second wheel, so swapping in the ARF second wheel is an alternative to broaching the second hand.

Ok! Yes I can confirm that in some cases it happened that arf second hand had some difficult going in place, it’s hole was too tight, but it’s enough to broach it a little to fit a vr. I didn’t noticed any difference in second wheels functional part(train wheel part), there’s only a little difference in the last part, where the second hand goes. I think that vr-sh 31xx fit all gen train wheels and most of other parts, I tried several combinations and everything seems to work properly, except for some parts like date finger or balance bridge.


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[KJ2020]

Ok! Yes I can confirm that in some cases it happened that arf second hand had some difficult going in place, it’s hole was too tight, but it’s enough to broach it a little to fit a vr. I didn’t noticed any difference in second wheels functional part(train wheel part), there’s only a little difference in the last part, where the second hand goes. I think that vr-sh 31xx fit all gen train wheels and most of other parts, I tried several combinations and everything seems to work properly, except for some parts like date finger or balance bridge.


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Thanks bro, good to know. Another member did report a compatibility issue on the gear end of the second wheel between ARF and gen. But certainly broaching the second hand or using the ARF second wheel would be preferable to paying for a gen part.

 

[srhoque]

The VR3185 will fit into the ARF 116710 without issues (I have a build like this). However in order to fortify the reliability of the movement and ensure no issue with hands fitting, I suggest the following gen parts:

1. Jumping hour module (3185 660)
2. Hands Pinion (minute pinion with canon pinion) (3155 335)
3. Second Wheel (3155 360) The gen minute pinion above has a jewel that’s too small for the rep VR 3185 seconds wheel.

 

[Goon3r]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

From what i've read through it seems that a sensible route to take would be the following:

• Replace the jumping hour module with gen 3185-660
• If the ARF hands dont fit onto the VR wheels just replace them with the ARF wheels also

This seems sensible.

I'm asking aswell because obviously i do not have the skillset to make such a swap so i want me (and the future watchmaker i'll be paying to do this) to be sighted on any issues that could arise.. hopefully reducing the time the watch is off my wrist!

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The VR3185 will fit into the ARF 116710 without issues (I have a build like this). However in order to fortify the reliability of the movement and ensure no issue with hands fitting, I suggest the following gen parts:

1. Jumping hour module (3185 660)
2. Hands Pinion (minute pinion with canon pinion) (3155 335)
3. Second Wheel (3155 360) The gen minute pinion above has a jewel that’s too small for the rep VR 3185 seconds wheel.

I assume the 3155 335 and the 3155 360 are only required to get the hands to fit? But if we can move over the corresponding ARF parts we should be good?

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This is a great resource to look up part numbers

https://evergreenparts.de/spare-Parts-for-Rolex-only_for_Information

I've always struggled with that site! I always assumed the second column was the (second part of the) part number.. took me a long time to realise the '9600' was the 660 hahah!

 

[Goon3r]

Also, i'm sure i read somewhere on this forum that people's hour hands (not sure if the 12h or 24h) were having problems in the VR3185? Does anyone remember reading about this?

 

[srhoque]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

From what i've read through it seems that a sensible route to take would be the following:

• Replace the jumping hour module with gen 3185-660
• If the ARF hands dont fit onto the VR wheels just replace them with the ARF wheels also

This seems sensible.

I'm asking aswell because obviously i do not have the skillset to make such a swap so i want me (and the future watchmaker i'll be paying to do this) to be sighted on any issues that could arise.. hopefully reducing the time the watch is off my wrist!

---

I assume the 3155 335 and the 3155 360 are only required to get the hands to fit? But if we can move over the corresponding ARF parts we should be good?

---

I've always struggled with that site! I always assumed the second column was the (second part of the) part number.. took me a long time to realise the '9600' was the 660 hahah!

Well, I don't know how good the ARF parts fit into the VR.

 

[KJ2020]

The only ARF wheels that will fit on the VR is the second wheel for sure and perhaps the minute (canon) pinion. The hour wheels are completely different and not interchangeable. The VR3185 has parts designed after the gen 3185, the SH3186 has parts designed after the gen 3186. Hence the name given by RWI to the VR3185. You are correct that the main reason for installing gen 3155 parts is to ensure better fit for the hands. Of course gen parts are always better so it can't hurt in any event. Is it necessary? Not if the ARF hands fit even if they have to be slightly pinched or broached, IMO. You have to decide how much you want to spend on your rep. You can buy several sets of ARF hands for what some of these gen parts cost. Mix and match hands til you get one that fits. The last one I did all the hands fit properly without any modding at all.

Hour wheels

The only thing I don't like about that resource site is the item number given to the parts. You have to expand the part window to see the gen part number. Also some of the names are not correct. But the pics and the part numbers are correct from what I have seen.

There were early reports of some GMT and/or hour hands not synching or following properly on the VR3185. I have not seen these issues personally and stand by my earlier statement suggesting you simply use the VR3185 OOTB and see if it performs adequately for you. I have handled a number of them and have not experienced a single issue of unreliability. If you were buidling a Franken it would be a different story. But these movements are very good and as long as the ARF hands fit I see no reason to upgrade it before it needs it. Servicing it would certainly be advised though, any rep will benefit from that. I haven't see more than one report of the VR jump click breaking and it seems OK to me. Of course gen is always better. You can buy a whole new VR movement for what the gen jump click costs.

 

[s.orologiaio]

I don’t recommend to replace the second wheel if the watch is running good. To do this operation you must disassemble the whole movement and service it, it’s not a good idea to only replace the second wheel imo!


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[s.orologiaio]

I don’t recommend to replace the second wheel if the watch is running good. To do this operation you must disassemble the whole movement and service it, it’s not a good idea to only replace the second wheel imo!


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[KJ2020]

I didn't have a choice but to replace the second wheel on one. The pinion broke pressing the second hand.