New 16610 out? Experts?

[GreyCactus]

gen bezel insert has arrived

 

[GreyCactus]

I remember people being concerned about the 2 in 20 so here you go

 

[Daryl70]

I remember people being concerned about the 2 in 20 so here you go

2 looong!

 

[Substar]

I remember people being concerned about the 2 in 20 so here you go

I wasn’t going to bother with a gen insert but the numbers are too long on the rep which I assume is still on the watch.


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[houss1981]

Very nice watch but still way too far from ARF 6digits quality. Am gona wait their updated version of this model.

 

[peppercorn]

I’ve wondered about an update to this one, wondering if demand isn’t high enough, especially when compared to 6 digit, to warrant an update anytime soon.


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[SHB]

Very nice watch but still way too far from ARF 6digits quality. Am gona wait their updated version of this model.

I doubt arf update this release

 

[houss1981]

I doubt arf update this release

They better update it. The demand is here and their reputation is high.
angus should be the mediator for this request

 

[SHB]

They better update it. The demand is here and their reputation is high.
angus should be the mediator for this request

Angus won't do it because when we ask him about the 5 digits there's never a single reply lol

Let's just hope to see an other factory to start producing some high tier rep for 5 digits (sub/gmt).

 

[Hinclimincli]

Angus won't do it because when we ask him about the 5 digits there's never a single reply lol

Let's just hope to see an other factory to start producing some high tier rep for 5 digits (sub/gmt).

And I hope they use both VR3136 and A2836 please. The crown height issue can be solved on the 2836’s (as can be seen on the ZZF v2s 2836), and would be great for those that are happy to sacrifice some gen-spec in exchange of longevity.

 

[SHB]

And I hope they use both VR3136 and A2836 please. The crown height issue can be solved on the 2836’s (as can be seen on the ZZF v2s 2836), and would be great for those that are happy to sacrifice some gen-spec in exchange of longevity.

You have 100% right

 

[heska]

I remember people being concerned about the 2 in 20 so here you go

Does the gen insert fits without modification?

 

[houss1981]

And I hope they use both VR3136 and A2836 please. The crown height issue can be solved on the 2836’s (as can be seen on the ZZF v2s 2836), and would be great for those that are happy to sacrifice some gen-spec in exchange of longevity.

How can you solve the crown height on the 2836?

 

[Hinclimincli]

How can you solve the crown height on the 2836?

I don’t know, but I know that my 2836-powered ZZF v2s 116610LN has almost the same crown height as the genuine:


And by the time the movement has any kind of problems I will be able to source the parts myself and get it repaired. Worst case, I’ll buy a brand new Top Grade Sellita and will have an almost-COSC watch for just $200 more. Bingo!

 

[DC109]

I don’t know, but I know that my 2836-powered ZZF v2s 116610LN has almost the same crown height as the genuine:


And by the time the movement has any kind of problems I will be able to source the parts myself and get it repaired. Worst case, I’ll buy a brand new Top Grade Sellita and will have an almost-COSC watch for just $200 more. Bingo!

Hey man, I hate to knock anyone else's watch, but that crown position is not close. From the side it's clearly below the center line, while a 3135 is centered or above, depending on the case thickness. And looking at the front of the watch, the way you'd usually see it, the lower CP means very different CG shape. Plenty of people don't care, but while a lot of tells can be covered as service work or variations between model years, the low CP is a dead giveaway.

Also the logic on replacement parts doesn't really apply anymore. The old SA3135 was unreliable years ago, but it improved... SH3135 is better, and now we have the VR3135. All available in abundance, along with aftermarket parts. So again, everyone can chart their own way, but there isn't really a solid reason to go with a non-clone movement these days.

 

[houss1981]

I don’t know, but I know that my 2836-powered ZZF v2s 116610LN has almost the same crown height as the genuine:


And by the time the movement has any kind of problems I will be able to source the parts myself and get it repaired. Worst case, I’ll buy a brand new Top Grade Sellita and will have an almost-COSC watch for just $200 more. Bingo!

Totally agree with you. I prefer the eta copy over the 3135 copy.
i was more convinced with the ARF V3 over others.

 

[Cadows]

I don’t know, but I know that my 2836-powered ZZF v2s 116610LN has almost the same crown height as the genuine:


And by the time the movement has any kind of problems I will be able to source the parts myself and get it repaired. Worst case, I’ll buy a brand new Top Grade Sellita and will have an almost-COSC watch for just $200 more. Bingo!

Why not gen eta instead of sellita?

 

[Hinclimincli]

Why not gen eta instead of sellita?

Because since ETA stopped selling their movements to the general public it's getting harder and harder to get your hands on a 100% genuine unopened ETA. In most cases you will have a refurbished one with replaced parts (maybe all of them ETA parts, don't get me wrong, but it's not a sealed movement). On the other hand, since the 2824 and 2836 patents are already public, Sellita has done a great job building those movements with Swiss quality standards and for a lower price than ETA (since supply is endless in their case). Sellita also manufactures these calibers in four quality levels as ETA does, normal, elaboré, top grade and chronometer grade (COSC). If I had to buy a Swiss movement right now I'd go for Sellita on any of the well known and trusted websites (Cousins, Esslinger, etc).

 

[houss1981]

Because since ETA stopped selling their movements to the general public it's getting harder and harder to get your hands on a 100% genuine unopened ETA. In most cases you will have a refurbished one with replaced parts (maybe all of them ETA parts, don't get me wrong, but it's not a sealed movement). On the other hand, since the 2824 and 2836 patents are already public, Sellita has done a great job building those movements with Swiss quality standards and for a lower price than ETA (since supply is endless in their case). Sellita also manufactures these calibers in four quality levels as ETA does, normal, elaboré, top grade and chronometer grade (COSC). If I had to buy a Swiss movement right now I'd go for Sellita on any of the well known and trusted websites (Cousins, Esslinger, etc).

Havent been able to find any of 2824 or sw200 in top grade or cosc on any website selling to bublic. Do you have any link please?

 

[Hinclimincli]

Hey man, I hate to knock anyone else's watch, but that crown position is not close. From the side it's clearly below the center line, while a 3135 is centered or above, depending on the case thickness. And looking at the front of the watch, the way you'd usually see it, the lower CP means very different CG shape. Plenty of people don't care, but while a lot of tells can be covered as service work or variations between model years, the low CP is a dead giveaway.

Also the logic on replacement parts doesn't really apply anymore. The old SA3135 was unreliable years ago, but it improved... SH3135 is better, and now we have the VR3135. All available in abundance, along with aftermarket parts. So again, everyone can chart their own way, but there isn't really a solid reason to go with a non-clone movement these days.

I totally get what you mean, but I'm afraid I'm not quite convinced. The crown position IS close. Check these out:

Now check again on the ZZF 2836. I will zoom in a little bit so you can properly check it out:
I'm afraid we are talking about less than a milimeter here mate. It is 100% impossible that anyone can notice that even by sitting the whole night by your side on a dinner and looking closely. And even handling the watch over and upon inspection either. And, in the case someone is as knowledgeable to really find out, they would also find out with any other rep as there are flaws that can't be hidden to a really high level professional. The point is, at this level of "almost" gen crown height I can't be bothered, honestly.

Now on the movement side, which is the reason why I'm happy to reach a compromise with a 2836's crown height... I'm sorry but I digress too. VR3135 is a great movement and of course I'm sure it adds to the interesting point of being set as the genuine 3135 (rotating crown clockwise rotates hands clockwise too, etc). But if your pallet fork breaks where do you go and buy one? If your seconds hand pinion gets smashed while pushing too much a gen set of hands, where do you go and buy one? No TD will serve you parts of any clone at all, so you have to get yourself another full movement. Not the case with an ETA clone as you can buy as many spare parts as you want, for really cheap prices (same goes for your watchsmith, who will charge you way less to repair it, btw).

And there is an extra, when I talk about longevity I use that work quite intentionally. In ten years from now, will VR3135 still be available? You have been registered since 2012, do you remember what we had in that time? I can 99% assure you that in 10 years I will be able to source a new set of hands wheels, canon wheel, winding stems, etc. You name it. And in ten years from now I will be able to find a friendly watchsmith that will be able to repair it. I will also be able to swap the movement for a sealed Swiss made Sellita (or another asian A2836).

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the reason to use a VR3135. You can add genuine parts without problem and that is not just a minor difference. But to say that there isn't a solid reason to not go for a clone movement is quite far from the truth. I would probably say that with the quality of the new VR3135 now you have two great avenues to pursue:

1. Franken: go for VR3135
2. Daily beater for the rest of your life: go for A2836

There's really no need to disparage any of these two options, honestly. Both are great options and I am grateful that the rep industry has gone that far.