TC Sub 16610 v6 with ST and Gen parts

[Dino2018]

Hello my Friends of RWI,

I'm going to build a Lug Holes Case Luminova 16610 Sub using parts from TC, also from Startime Supply and some other Gen Rolex. I would like you more experienced than me can help me please to choose the correct parts of all I got for my build.

I just purchased from rvlife some TC 16610 v6 parts (btw, excellent seller!), they are the following:

KH 16610 Dial
Hands
2824 H4 Movement with movmt. ring and DWO
Cristal with gasket
Bezel and insert
Crown

I have the following ST parts:

16610 lug holes Case
Bezel
Cristal with gasket
Bracelet bands

Also I have the following gen parts:

704 Crown
93150 Clasp 503B end links
16200 Serifed Date Wheel

My main questions would be:

1.- Do you know if the ST cristal is better than the TC v6 one?

2.- Is the TC v6 DWO Font too bad? Do you reccomend me instead making an overlay with an ETA date Wheel and a Gen one over it?

3.- Do you reccomend to replace the TC Crown for a Gen one? Do you consider visually been too different?

4.- Is way much better a Gen insert Pearl than the V6 one?

I would take tonight some comparison pics of the aforementioned parts.

Thank you very much and kind regards,

Dino

 

[alligoat]

1. Crystal- you'll just have to judge for yourself
2. I'd stick with the TC DWO- trying to fit a gen DW in there makes for a clearance problem- it's too thick.
3. You'd have to compare a TC crown with the gen 704, but I'd think a gen 704 would be better although I've left rep crowns on some builds since they were good.
4. Once again, you can be the judge. I've seen some watchmaterial pearls that were as good as gen pearls. When you take the TC pearl out and glue in the gen pearl, you run the risk of the pearl falling out later if the glue fails or you hit the pearl on something. Of course you could also loose the TC pearl if you hit something.
You can't see the lugholes on this MBW- late model with a gen bezel assembly.

It's a WM9 dial and hands- great lume, WM pearl, gen 703 crown, swiss 2836-2 and a TC SEL 93250 bracelet. You could say the 2836 gives you a slightly lower crown position, but who's gonna notice. Watch is WR and great for swimming, etc.

 

[Dino2018]

1. Crystal- you'll just have to judge for yourself
2. I'd stick with the TC DWO- trying to fit a gen DW in there makes for a clearance problem- it's too thick.
3. You'd have to compare a TC crown with the gen 704, but I'd think a gen 704 would be better although I've left rep crowns on some builds since they were good.
4. Once again, you can be the judge. I've seen some watchmaterial pearls that were as good as gen pearls. When you take the TC pearl out and glue in the gen pearl, you run the risk of the pearl falling out later if the glue fails or you hit the pearl on something. Of course you could also loose the TC pearl if you hit something.
You can't see the lugholes on this MBW- late model with a gen bezel assembly.
It's a WM9 dial and hands- great lume, WM pearl, gen 703 crown, swiss 2836-2 and a TC SEL 93250 bracelet. You could say the 2836 gives you a slightly lower crown position, but who's gonna notice. Watch is WR and great for swimming, etc.

Wow that is a very beautiful build alligoat ! Really nice to hear from one of the longer lasting RWI members!

I'll take for sure the advice on the TC DWO! After two nightmare SA and SH3135s builds, I'd like to do this one without complex modifications.

I'll take comparison pics between the two cristals and the two crowns and the pearl and post it.​

Thank you very much for your comments, are much appreciated!

Kind regards,

Dino

 

[McDuck888]

4.) I don’t think I know very much about five digit subs or understanding which parts of a TC watch share a similar likeness with a genuine 16610 etc.
(I own a TC with gen parts and I enjoy it very much. Lives on my wrist. But my detailed learning has always been geared towards the modern subs)
but without knowing any useful information about a 16610LN, I’m always able to tell a TC pearl (and other aftermarket pearls) apart from a genuine insert’s pearl. The difference is noticeable to me despite knowing not so much about the watch. In my eyes the Pearl is something I’ve looked at first, every time, to be able to tell if a 16610LN that I see on the internet is a TC etc or Gen!
(I haven’t studied their crown guard or lug shape etc to be able to tell a five digit apart from a rep any other way) So from my perspective, I think it’s really cool to buy a genuine insert if you can.
But if you yourself compare both a gen Pearl and a TC pearl and you yourself don’t see much of a difference, then the swap to gen Pearl isn’t necessary for you.
And an insert with gen Pearl is always so easily available to you at a much later date if you ever start to see a difference between them yourself. It’s all personal choice.
Loads of people love the rep pearl too. As a noob it was the only thing that was an ‘easy-tell’ for me, is what I mean. But I don’t know how anybody else feels about it. Good luck with your build.

 

[McDuck888]

2.) I enjoy the DWO font. The only difference that I notice compared with a genuine datewheel is the inkiness. Rollie datewheels look mmmn, have a little sheen shiny on the numbers that make it look like it’s written in ink to me. I don’t know how to describe it. But to me the font is like genuine. But sometimes the TC datewheel being looked at through my gen 25-295c crystal’s cyclops, I notice that the reflection in the cyclops of lights etc makes the TC datewheel ‘appear shiny/inky’ to me even though it isn’t. So to me, I enjoy the Tc v6 overlay. And it’s just personal preference again. TC overlay looks like gen to me in photos and on the wrist. But if you’re a detail freak.. if you get an opportunity to view a Rolex datewheel through it’s cyclops.. observe the ink’s sheen and see if you ever notice. To me, TC is just fine and makes me happy.

 

[McDuck888]

N.B. Also.. I probably know a hell of a lot less than you OP!!! Haha. I’m sure!!
So please take my words with a pinch of salt and excuse me if they aren’t correct ;-) I don’t know great amounts about the five digit. I’d bought mine already built.
Excited to see what you do.

 

[Dino2018]

N.B. Also.. I probably know a hell of a lot less than you OP!!! Haha. I’m sure!!
So please take my words with a pinch of salt and excuse me if they aren’t correct ;-) I don’t know great amounts about the five digit. I’d bought mine already built.
Excited to see what you do.

Kerushi11 My friend thank you very much for your insights and contribution to the post. I try to learn as much as posible from all you. Many people I read around here tends to convene with you regarding the Pearl, in that case I would need a luminova insert, my Gen one is tritium. I'll also compare the "inkiness" you spot-on refer with both the gen datewheel and the TC DWO under the cristal loupe. I'll make pics. Thank you!!!

Regards,

Dino

 

[gunsmoke16610]

Hi Dino,

Responding to provide observations that I've collected after owning and building multiple Franken TC and ST 16610's.

1- Crystals; I can't say that I can provide a clear answer to your question regarding which is better a TC or ST? It's a subjective one. I will tell you I chose to swap my TC crystals with either Gen or Prof Blackhole. My advice is to use the one that looks best to you. I decided to use the Prof blackhole to show off my O-69 DW. It's not correct on a 16800; however, it looks great to me; here is an image.

2- DW font; The best overlay I've owned was a BK; however, I only use gens now because they are so clean and crisp. Below you can see the LV has a V6 DW and the LN Shark a BK. I think it boils down to what you prefer and willing to accept. I believe there are only a few modders who can overlay a Gen on a 2824.

3- Crown I would only replace a TC crown with a Gen if there was a problem with it, the TC crown is outstanding.

4- The TC insert, and pearl is excellent, provided it is period correct. If you are building an older 16610 or 16800, I would buy a Gen flat 4. The cool thing about older inserts is you can get one with a beautiful patina that will add character

I will take some pictures regarding the ST case and post here when I have the time. Good luck!

 

[Perpetual]

Subscribed! I just love seeing builds unfold specially subs

if I had to judge the crystal side of things it's going to be tough between ST vs TC..

TC v6 crystal has a blue hue tint giving it the (rep) look, but has a very nice beveled edge.

ST crystal has a very gen like color, but the beveled edge isn't as nice.

TC v6 dwo is very gen like (I used to own TCv6)

HK v6 TC dail is great only Gen would better currently.

No reason to change TC crown it is very good.

Gen insert I will recommend, because it is a (big) part you see on the watch (and gen pearl is better then TC)

 

[Dino2018]

Hi Dino,

Responding to provide observations that I've collected after owning and building multiple Franken TC and ST 16610's.

1- Crystals; I can't say that I can provide a clear answer to your question regarding which is better a TC or ST? It's a subjective one. I will tell you I chose to swap my TC crystals with either Gen or Prof Blackhole. My advice is to use the one that looks best to you. I decided to use the Prof blackhole to show off my O-69 DW. It's not correct on a 16800; however, it looks great to me; here is an image.

2- DW font; The best overlay I've owned was a BK; however, I only use gens now because they are so clean and crisp. Below you can see the LV has a V6 DW and the LN Shark a BK. I think it boils down to what you prefer and willing to accept. I believe there are only a few modders who can overlay a Gen on a 2824.

3- Crown I would only replace a TC crown with a Gen if there was a problem with it, the TC crown is outstanding.

4- The TC insert, and pearl is excellent, provided it is period correct. If you are building an older 16610 or 16800, I would buy a Gen flat 4. The cool thing about older inserts is you can get one with a beautiful patina that will add character

I will take some pictures regarding the ST case and post here when I have the time. Good luck!

Wow wow!!!!! gunsmoke16610 your builds are impressive!!!!! I just toke comparison pictures of all items you described above and you are trully right so! Thank you very much for your insights and a pleasure to have you in this post!

 

[Dino2018]

Subscribed! I just love seeing builds unfold specially subs

if I had to judge the crystal side of things it's going to be tough between ST vs TC..

TC v6 crystal has a blue hue tint giving it the (rep) look, but has a very nice beveled edge.

ST crystal has a very gen like color, but the beveled edge isn't as nice.

TC v6 dwo is very gen like (I used to own TCv6)

HK v6 TC dail is great only Gen would better currently.

No reason to change TC crown it is very good.

Gen insert I will recommend, because it is a (big) part you see on the watch (and gen pearl is better then TC)

Hi lawlessflyer thank you very much for your answer! Yes the TC crown is spot on and there are subtle differences among the cristals. Bellow I will put a comparison pics with the gen parts I have. Thank you!!!

 

[Dino2018]

So let's go with the comparison pics!

Starting with the crystals, next are pics I took comparing my ST crystal (mounted on a modified ST case) and the TC V6 crystal:

As lawlessflyer noted in his post, the beveled profile of the ST is a bit less steeper then the TC profile. In the next picture for comparison, a period correct for my build 1999 Swiss Made lugs holes case 16610 has the crystal profile closer to the TC than to the ST:

However seen in frontal view, the edges of the loupe on the ST are "edgy" and more closer to gen than the TC cristal:

For comparison, a picture of a 1999 with gen cristal, you can observe the "edgy" edges of the loupe:

So for me no clear winner here, I have yet to wait to mount them over the dial and DW to see that blue hue my friend above mentioned.

 

[Dino2018]

Next the DWO Font.

I took this comparison pics between a gen 16200 DW and the TC V6 DWO:

The font size and from is amazingly spot-on on this. Even the ink has this 3D effect with the reflection of the light (compare the "3" and "4" date on the gen with the "6" and "7" date on the TC).

However when we take a loupe magnification we discover the following:

The font thickness on the TC is a tiny bit wider than the gen. This is with a 10X digital loupe magnification, so I yet has to compare then under the 2.5X Swiss standard magnification of the crystals, However is something I thought when I saw the "official" TC V6 review pictures published back then when introduced:

Compared with a 1999 gen one:

So TC V6 DWO is pretty, pretty good and surely would pass 99.9% of the times unnoticed, however there is tiny difference with the gen.That said, is a small work of art the degree of manufacture that the TC DWO has.

 

[thinwhiteduke]

Dino2018 Good luck on your TC project! Always good to pay attention to details. But if you notice and are bothered by crystal edges, maybe you may want to consider installing a gen dial. The KH dial is really nice. Unfortunately, once you see the big tell, you can’t unsee it.
Dont get me wrong. I love my TC’s. Just saying that with your level of attention to details, you may have overlooked the obvious KH dial tell. I wanna rule that out.

 

[Dino2018]

Dino2018 Good luck on your TC project! Always good to pay attention to details. But if you notice and are bothered by crystal edges, maybe you may want to consider installing a gen dial. The KH dial is really nice. Unfortunately, once you see the big tell, you can’t unsee it.
Dont get me wrong. I love my TC’s. Just saying that with your level of attention to details, you may have overlooked the obvious KH dial tell. I wanna rule that out.

Thank you very much thinwhiteduke Yes the KH dial has its own shortcomings I know, I have a gen dial and I will make a picture comparison also here

 

[Dino2018]

Now the bezel.

Next side by side I got on the left a ST bezel with a gen tritium insert and on the right TC V6 bezel and luminova insert:

The ST bezel insert teeth profile is a noticiably stepper than the TC ones, as you can see in the following pic:

Next two pictures are the teeth profile in detail, first the TC:

And then the ST:

I would say the ST profile is closer to gen, like in the picture bellow:

So I would conclude that the ST bezel has a more gen-like teeth profile than the TC V6, but with the downside that to fit a gen insert on it, you have to file it slightly. Right off the shelf, the gen insert does not fit in the ST bezel.

 

[rupert37]

Dino2018 Good luck on your TC project! Always good to pay attention to details. But if you notice and are bothered by crystal edges, maybe you may want to consider installing a gen dial. The KH dial is really nice. Unfortunately, once you see the big tell, you can’t unsee it.
Dont get me wrong. I love my TC’s. Just saying that with your level of attention to details, you may have overlooked the obvious KH dial tell. I wanna rule that out.

I'm also modding my TCV6 LV. I just bought gen washer and Clark spring, gen insert and a gen crystal is on the way: but I didn't consider the option of installing a gen dial because I understood the KH dial is really good. What is this obvious tell you are talking about? Thank you!

 

[Dino2018]

Now with the insert.

I've read about the insert not being good enough and people replace them with a gen one. I'll try here to discover why.

Bellow you can find pictures of a gen tritium insert on the right and the TC V6 luminova one the left.

​

You can see at x25 magnification that the metal surround of the pearl is flatter and has a bit more diameter outside on the TC (we are talking here about cents of millimeter), that's what changes the look of the pearl, that is good for itself, but the reflections of the light on the metal surround differ strongly.​

The aluminum disc is pretty good overall, just the silver paint is roughter on the gen one (on the right) that creates that bit richer reflection of light.

I can conclude that the TC V6 insert is pretty good, just micro differences here and there, but could live proudly on my franken without any doubt.​

 

[bc1221]

I would have kept the TC case and gotten the lug holes drilled. You have to do a lot of reshaping that ST case. They’re a bit too chunky.

I would have picked up a set of ST Tudor sub hands too. They’re pretty damn good but TC hands are damn good too.

Good luck with your build!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dino2018]

I would have kept the TC case and gotten the lug holes drilled. You have to do a lot of reshaping that ST case. They’re a bit too chunky.

I would have picked up a set of ST Tudor sub hands too. They’re pretty damn good but TC hands are damn good too.

Good luck with your build!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hello! thank you very much for your comments. Yes you are right it toke a lot of effort reshaping the ST case but enjoyed it a lot. I will put pictures of the entire proccess on a separate thread soon.

All the Best,

Dino