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Rep Rolex Serial Numbers

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Magna_Graecia

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6/10/19
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Hi all! I know this forum is famous for critiquing every aspect of a rep watch under macro photos, and rightfully so, as the goal is to get as close to gen as possible! So this has made me wonder why there isn't much concern for the fact that the biggest tell of all on many of the best reps is going to be your serial number anyway. Now, I know some will say "nobody is going to notice your serial number", but if that's the case, then why are so many of us concerned with even the tiniest of discrepancies that literally 99.99% of people aren't going to notice? (Including rehaut flaws). I mean one of the watches that I'm very interested in purchasing down the line is the new Noob V3 116500, and in my research on it I have learned how there is a minor difference in the "R" on the bezel between the V2 and V3 versions, with of course the V3 being fixed and as per gen, but literally 99.99% of people won't spot the V2 flaw on your wrist. I'm not an expert, but I am an enthusiast, and even I needed to have that pointed out. The only people that are going to spot it are serious experts, and guess what? You don't need to be concerned about the tiniest of flaws at that point because your serial number may give you right up anyway. Now, in the case of Noob, this may not be the case, as it does seem that Noob uses truly random serial numbers, but I was just using the Noob 116500 as an example for the flaws. Really I'm pointing out the other makers that are touted so much here, like ARF. The ARF 116610LN 2824 seems to be touted as the best OOTB Sub-C, but in my research in looking over many, MANY QC photos of it and also the 3135 version, I have noticed that the serials pretty much all begin with 9 and end with J2R0, with the numbers in between being random. That's not truly random though, and the second I saw a Sub-C in person whose serial on the rehaut began and ended with that number, I would know it's a fake, even if you modded the crap out of it.

Anyway, am I wrong in my thinking here? How come no concern over this? The serial numbers on ARF are easy call-outs, whereas with Noob it truly seems random. Like I said, I'm not an expert though, so they might not even be fully random on Noobs either. I saw a post by Smoke stating how Noob does something like make 30 cases with the same serial, then the next 30 will be a different serial, and so on, so you'll only have 30 that have the same. But then I saw another post of his talking about the Noob V6S having come with repeating serials on the 1st and 2nd batches, and how that was fixed on the next batch to where there were absolutely no repeating serials the way it was meant to be, so I'm a little confused.

Anyone know if Noob serials are currently truly random with none ever repeating? Or how serial numbers between the different makers work in general? That's a big plus to Noob if they're the only maker doing truly random serials, imho.

Thanks to everyone in advance!
 

Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/10/19
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There is no perfect rep.


Sent from my iPhone using RWI

Well I know that of course, but isn't the idea to have a constant progression towards perfection? I think that's everyone's goal here, and why we constantly point out even the tiniest flaws in hopes that they will be fixed on the next version, so you would think a real easy starting point would be truly random serials like Noob seems to be doing (if I'm not mistaken). Otherwise it's just a mega-easy callout. Don't even be concerned about your bold DW font on your ARF Sub-C if your serial starts with 9 and ends with J2R0.
 

Tucker

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Well I know that of course, but isn't the idea to have a constant progression towards perfection? I think that's everyone's goal here, and why we constantly point out even the tiniest flaws in hopes that they will be fixed on the next version, so you would think a real easy starting point would be truly random serials like Noob seems to be doing (if I'm not mistaken). Otherwise it's just a mega-easy callout. Don't even be concerned about your bold DW font on your ARF Sub-C if your serial starts with 9 and ends with J2R0.

Lol. Nobody is ever going to be checking your serial number so it’s never going to be a “mega-easy callout.” The only time the serial number would ever be analyzed is if you are trying to pass your rep off as gen.
 

Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/10/19
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Lol. Nobody is ever going to be checking your serial number so it’s never going to be a “mega-easy callout.” The only time the serial number would ever be analyzed is if you are trying to pass your rep off as gen.

It's not so much checking as it is noticing. The serial number on a modern Rolex isn't hidden like it was in the past. As mentioned in my OP, nobody is also going to notice the pointy "R" on the bezel of the V2 Noob 116500. Anyone that DOES notice that flaw is definitely going to notice your serial number as being a well-known rep sequence, so if you're as concerned about miniscule flaws as the rest of the forum is, then you most definitely should be concerned about easily spotted fake serial sequences. Am I not right here?
 

alfonzo

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25/7/19
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Noticing for me would require a loupe. Here is the scenario: "Hey bud let me see your watch (whips out loupe and grabs hand) Hold still man..."

I get your point but the very idea of a rep is that it will always be flawed against the gen not matter what it is. There is a beautiful thread going on right now by an amazing builder who put together 3 insanely beautiful Patek Philippe's one he has $12k-ish into building using all gen parts except for the mid case that he had custom machined to order. Perfect in every way but for two things...
 
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Tucker

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It's not so much checking as it is noticing. The serial number on a modern Rolex isn't hidden like it was in the past. As mentioned in my OP, nobody is also going to notice the pointy "R" on the bezel of the V2 Noob 116500. Anyone that DOES notice that flaw is definitely going to notice your serial number as being a well-known rep sequence, so if you're as concerned about miniscule flaws as the rest of the forum is, then you most definitely should be concerned about easily spotted fake serial sequences. Am I not right here?

No. You are not right. A crazy noob, but not right.
 

Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/10/19
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you keep track of those ?

You don't need to keep track of it. All you need to know is that ARF Sub-C's begin with 9 and end with J2R0. Anyone that knows enough of what to look for to spot the miniscule flaws that the forum constantly points out on reps is going to know enough to know the serial sequences, like Smoke. I saw a post from Smoke that said there's something neat about having a truly random serial on your rep just like gen, and I would agree. Anyone that won't spot your serial as being a well-known rep sequence also won't spot the fact that the tip of the "R" on the bezel of the V2 Noob 116500 is more pointy instead of round like gen. I would honestly spot a serial well-before I spotted a flaw that tiny. That's all I'm saying.
 

Raddave

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You don't need to keep track of it. All you need to know is that ARF Sub-C's begin with 9 and end with J2R0. Anyone that knows enough of what to look for to spot the miniscule flaws that the forum constantly points out on reps is going to know enough to know the serial sequences, like Smoke. I saw a post from Smoke that said there's something neat about having a truly random serial on your rep just like gen, and I would agree. Anyone that won't spot your serial as being a well-known rep sequence also won't spot the fact that the tip of the "R" on the bezel of the V2 Noob 116500 is more pointy instead of round like gen. I would honestly spot a serial well-before I spotted a flaw that tiny. That's all I'm saying.

Just out of curiosity , how far away can you read the serial number off a watch ?
 

Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/10/19
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Noticing for me would require a loupe. Here is the scenario: "Hey bud let me see your watch (whips out loupe and grabs hand) Hold still man..."

I get your point but the very idea of a rep is that it will always be flawed against the gen not matter what it is. There is a beautiful thread going on right now by an amazing builder who put together 3 insanely beautiful Patek Philippe's one he has $12k-ish into building using all gen parts except for the mid case that he had custom machined to order. Perfect in every way but for two things...

I 100% agree there will always be flaws, but my point is that why be concerned about all the tiny ones that are constantly pointed out on the forum if the serial number is even easier to spot? You definitely don't need a loupe to see it, come on. Like I said, is the flaw on the "R" of the bezel of the V2 Noob 116500 not smaller than the serial number engraved on the rehaut? If you can spot that on someone's wrist, then you can spot the serial number, at least the beginning and end of the sequence. Nobody is going to spot that "R" flaw unless you handed your watch to a colleague or acquaintance that was like "wow is that the new ceramic Daytona? Mind if I looked at it? I never had one in hand before." Then guess what? It's easy for them to notice both the "R" flaw AND the serial number. If they know the flaws to look for, then they certainly know the fake serial sequences. If they don't know the serial sequences, then they also don't know the flaws. That's my point. You can't make a big deal about one while overlooking the other. I'm a noob as Tucker said, and I'd have a much easier time spotting the serial than I would spotting the "R" if it hadn't been previously pointed out to me.
 

Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/10/19
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Just out of curiosity , how far away can you read the serial number off a watch ?

Read my reply to alfonzo. I mentioned a not-so-uncommon scenario where someone could easily see it, and as I said, if you can't spot the serial (or at least the beginning and end of it), then you certainly can't spot the tip of the "R" on the V2 Noob 116500. Nobody can argue that the tip of that "R" isn't smaller than the serial # engraved on a Rolex's rehaut.

Edited a small mistake.
 
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alfonzo

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So you very much can make a big deal out of one or another.

I can fix a bezel with a high quality replacement or a gen replacement but to get a serial that did not fit "your" tell requires a few more dollars on the choice of base watch that takes the serial number more seriously or the money to have the rehaut polished and re-lazer engraved or a one-off custom case made. Because the flaws are inherent one must decide what flaws to address and there is a point of diminishing returns relative to said tell and budget.

I literally had to get out of my chair and go into my office and get watch off my wrist get it into the right light and I could start to make it out but even with the old multi-focals I still needed magnification to read the whole thing which leads me to believe that you are on the younger side of old. I still bet you will not be able to read the serial on my SubC while it is on my wrist unless I held it super still. You will not get it at a glance.

If it is only you that gives a shit then hell yeah!!!! Have that rehaut polished and to be honest if I could have found a Gen case to build a franker off of I would! Why? Because of the pursuit of perfection but you see to achieve that my rep would be gen...
 
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Raddave

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Read my reply to alfonzo. I mentioned a not-so-uncommon scenario where someone could easily see it, and as I said, if you can't spot the serial (or at least the beginning and end of it), then you certainly can't spot the tip of the "R" on the V2 Noob 116500. Nobody can argue that the tip of that "R" isn't smaller than the serial # engraved on a Rolex's rehaut.

Edited a small mistake.

Ahh OK , my only rehaut engraved SN watch would be my DSSD , and good luck reading that without a loupe .....so perhaps you are more well versed than me ,

The serial numbers .....there are alot of fanatics about that , yuki engraves custom sns on the old 4 and 5 subs and as you know those are under the lug ends no one will ever see that , but they get quite a good deal of business, i guess it all comes down to what ever floats your boat , me personally , i dont think the SNs are a big deal , yeah i dont want reps to look like reps , but n the end , im not trying to fool anyone .... (unless im at the bar ;) )
 
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Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/10/19
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So you very much can make a big deal out of one or another.

I can fix a bezel with a high quality replacement or a gen replacement but to get a serial that did not fit "your" tell requires a few more dollars on the choice of base watch that takes the serial number more seriously or the money to have the rehaut polished and re-lazer engraved or a one-off custom case made. Because the flaws are inherent one must decide what flaws to address and there is a point of diminishing returns relative to said tell and budget.

I literally had to get out of my chair and go into my office and get watch off my wrist get it into the right light and I could start to make it out but even with the old multi-focals I still needed magnification to read the whole thing which leads me to believe that you are on the younger side of old. I still bet you will not be able to read the serial on my SubC while it is on my wrist unless I held it super still. You will not get it at a glance.

If it is only you that gives a shit then hell yeah!!!! Have that rehaut polished and to be honest if I could have found a Gen case to build a franker off of I would! Why? Because of the pursuit of perfection but you see to achieve that my rep would be gen...

Yes I would say that I'm not old, but not college-aged and such, but I could spot it easily on a friend's Noob V7. Constantly moving your arms around? Maybe not, depends. It's definitely a lot easier to spot the beginning and end of the sequence than the entire #, but that's all you need. Anyway, the scenario that I explained to you about handing the watch to an acquaintance or colleague who noticed your watch with delight and asked if they could feel it in hand really isn't so uncommon. I have a gen DJ 16234 that I've had numerous people request that from me with, as well as other watches. As previously stated, if one can't spot the serial number, then they can't spot many of the other tiny flaws that people regularly point out on the forum. If Noob can do it and get rid of this tell in general, then why can't the other factories?
 

Magna_Graecia

You're Saying I Can Sell?
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Ahh OK , my only rehaut engraved SN watch would be my DSSD , and good luck reading that without a loupe .....so perhaps you are more well versed than me ,

The serial numbers .....there are alot of fanatics about that , yuki engraves custom sns on the old 4 and 5 subs and as you know those are under the lug ends no one will ever see that , but they get quite a good deal of business, i guess it all comes down to what ever floats your boat , me personally , i dont think the SNs are a big deal , yeah i dont want reps to look like reps , but n the end , im not trying to fool anyone .... (unless im at the bar ;) )

I wouldn't say more well-versed (you are a super mod here afterall haha), but everyone has different vision. Not saying that yours or anyone else's is bad, but personally for me I'm able to easily spot it. Granted when I did it was on a friend's Noob V7 while taking a look at it in hand and trying it on, but if I'm not going to notice the serial while on someone else's wrist, then I'm certainly not going to notice the other even smaller flaws that are regularly discussed on this forum. My point is just that if you can't overlook other extremely-difficult-to-spot flaws, then why overlook the serial? If it were on the case between the lugs, as you mentioned, then I could care less because to be concerned at that point is literally all about scamming someone haha. Nobody is ever going to pop off the bracelet to take a look there, same way you shouldn't be concerned about having a decorated movement because nobody is going to pop off the caseback. I've seen some people make arguments in favor of the 3135 movements because the hand operation works as gen, but again, even if you handed your watch to a colleague that complimented it and asked if you mind if they take a look, they're likely not going to be rude enough to mess with your time and date setting lol. They just want to look at it and feel what a "Rolex" or particular model feels like in hand and on their wrist. Touch, weight, and all. This really is not an uncommon scenario at all, especially if you have a nice enough watch for people to notice, or say you have the new ceramic Daytona and work at an office building with upper-social-class colleagues that are familiar with high-end watches, and they notice your watch and are like "wow, let me check that thing out. I've been wanting to get one of these but they're sold out everywhere. You must have paid a pretty penny for this, Mr. Baller." I've had it happen even with my Movado.
 

Raddave

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I wouldn't say more well-versed (you are a super mod here afterall haha), but everyone has different vision. Not saying that yours or anyone else's is bad, but personally for me I'm able to easily spot it. Granted when I did it was on a friend's Noob V7 while taking a look at it in hand and trying it on, but if I'm not going to notice the serial while on someone else's wrist, then I'm certainly not going to notice the other even smaller flaws that are regularly discussed on this forum. My point is just that if you can't overlook other extremely-difficult-to-spot flaws, then why overlook the serial? If it were on the case between the lugs, as you mentioned, then I could care less because to be concerned at that point is literally all about scamming someone haha. Nobody is ever going to pop off the bracelet to take a look there, same way you shouldn't be concerned about having a decorated movement because nobody is going to pop off the caseback. I've seen some people make arguments in favor of the 3135 movements because the hand operation works as gen, but again, even if you handed your watch to a colleague that complimented it and asked if you mind if they take a look, they're likely not going to be rude enough to mess with your time and date setting lol. They just want to look at it and feel what a "Rolex" or particular model feels like in hand and on their wrist. Touch, weight, and all. This really is not an uncommon scenario at all, especially if you have a nice enough watch for people to notice, or say you have the new ceramic Daytona and work at an office building with upper-social-class colleagues that are familiar with high-end watches, and they notice your watch and are like "wow, let me check that thing out. I've been wanting to get one of these but they're sold out everywhere. You must have paid a pretty penny for this, Mr. Baller." I've had it happen even with my Movado.

well like i said , it all depends on what floats your boat i guess , SNs dont bother me , but that doesnt mean you are wrong , its just what is important to you , and there is nothing wrong with that ....
 
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