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Review of ZZF New Sub 116610 LN and Comparison vs. Gen, ARF, Noob and Nail (PART II)

Vvvlllooo

I'm Pretty Popular
13/6/15
2,412
1,770
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My two cents:
For what it’s worth.
I wanted to write up a review with the mindset goal of making the true best 1:1 rep sub! Included in this thought process was that money was not an issue (no movement talks and $$$ for the budget) and that I can only use reps to create this 1:1 model. I had used a point system from 4 to 1; 4 being the best and 1 being the worst. I ranked each watch based on the things I felt are the most important starting from case, insert, bezel, date wheel, dial markers, dial, crystal, Cyclops, hands, SELs, and finally the clasp.

Case
I had started with the case comparison because that is the foundation of a build. The case accounts to 70% of the style of your watch. All of your main important features, functions, colors, sizes, are built on to this foundation. These were the main factors: Case shape construction, Crown guard shape, and rehaut engravings. With the total goal of building a 1:1 the Noob V9 (3135) comes out with the closest to gen. The rehaut is double engraving compared to the rest but it stands out with its deep and clear letters. Next, would be ARF. Nail engravings appear very light and not as clear. ZZF good laser but R O L E X engravings appear to not line up to the dial markers (no dial shown next to rehaut). Lastly noted, ZZF serial number font is off.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CASE2341


Insert
Factors: Color, numbers, engravings, and PIP. This comparison was the hardest one to rank since they all have improved so much. Hulk will be the true test of insert color, when it is released for ZZF. For this example, they all appear consistent with black coloring. We all know the common issues with the current favorites, Noob and ARF. Noob losing it’s insert coloring over time and ARF with its deep engravings. The deep engravings and the combination of paint they do use makes the insert very reliable to withstand time and fading. All the number and markers are accurate and nice between all the reps. The PIP stands out with ARF and ZZF. ZZF has construction very 1:1 with the gen. Nail is surprising good too. Having Nail and ZZF, it will have to stand the test of time to see if the paint does wear off. If this does happen there score will go down possibly worst than Noob.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
INSERT4312


Bezel assembly
Factors: Style, scallops, and rotation operation. None of these are 1:1 gen yet or close. They all have nice finishes and construction. One thing to point out is the Nail bezel does look like the angles are sharper, which makes it scream rep. Noobs have the best click noise and operation. ARF still comes out on top, as it looks the closest to gen and operates very well.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
BEZEL3421


Date wheel
Factors: Font, boldness, and alignment. Clean looked the best out of the pack. For ARF this is the watches kryptonite. There are some numbers there on ZZF in the 20’s that did not seem to line up as well (could be due to the alignment of the date wheel).
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
DW3124


Dial markers
Most do not look like gen and are a tell (nothing will replicate white gold). I had separated the markers from the dials grade. Factors: Roundness 12, 30, 45 markers, and style. Noob has the most noticeable round markers with 12, 30, and 45. ZZF did come out on top as the dial markers do seem to round a bit and does have the curvature. One thing I did not grade was the consistent lume, which was unavailable at this time. I’m sure they all look good (who buys a watch for the loom anyways??)
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
DIAL
MARKERS4132


Dial
Factors: Font, boldness, and style. Nothing gets close to gen yet and having so many variations of a dial it was difficult to score. I believe the dial is the most important feature of a watch because it covers so much space and your eyes automatically goes to it. But for this comparison I only went with what was in front of me based on the factors shown. I do know Noob has raised printed lettering, which I did not consider. Font and style looked the best with the two new kids on the block.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
DIAL4123

Crystal and Cyclops:
Factors: Halo, Black hole, laser etch crown (just have to have something).
I did not put much emphasis on the laser etch crown. No one sees this. Having a mark there at least lands you on the board. This is another feature that is not close to gen yet but based on the parts we had I ranked Nail as the best. The pictures of the Cyclops, color, had looked the best out of all of them. Most of these will not have too much of a black hole effect. There is an effect but inconsistency and bad Cyclops have led me to always say replace the crystal.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CRYSTAL
CYCLOPS3214

Hands
Factor: 3D effect, size, and shapes.
ARF hands down. Looks the best! No hands will replicate gen, as that white gold is too hard to create. ARF gives you that 3d presence and Noob coming in second place.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
HANDS1432


SEL’s
You already know, this is the most controversial tell. ARF hands down.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
SELS2413

Clasp
Factors: Style, crown, operation, engravings, and smoothness. ARF is the best one out there. Noob’s etching within the clasps is awesome.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CLASP2431


Bottom line:

First and foremorst, thank you for taking the time out for the comparison. I can’t thank JTimewatch enough for doing this for the community as it strives for all of us to get better reps lol. To my surprise, ZZF did score the best out of the box on paper. If we do hear of the paint failing like the Noobs, it will fall out of contention. Also Nail overtook Noob. Here are my results:
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CASE2341
INSERT4312
BEZEL3421
DW3124
DIAL
MARKERS4132
DIAL4123
CRYSTAL
CYCLOPS3214
HANDS1432
SELS2413
CLASP2431
28272223


What do you think? Am I even close?? Just remember, money is no object and you had to build the best rep, what would you do?

Me: Noob V9 case, Insert and dial from ZZF, ARF hands and bracelet/claps with Nails crystal. Boom! The Ultimate Super Sub rep…on paper!

Am I ready yet? No, ARF and Noob has proven reliability and track record. It will be hard for me to buy the latest watches from Nail and ZZF even though they did a great job coming out with their product. One can only wish for this combination!
 

chigganv

Active Member
30/1/19
260
37
0
//Me: Noob V9 case, Insert and dial from ZZF, ARF hands and bracelet/claps with Nails crystal. Boom! The Ultimate Super Sub rep…on paper!//

I AGREE WITH THIS!
 
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xartan

I'm Pretty Popular
Advisor
30/7/16
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Sorry to say this but the hands are so poor I couldn’t live with it. So buy 3 subs and mix them up or have someone do it if you don’t have the skills haha.
 
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RandyC

You're Saying I Can Sell?
17/4/19
62
22
0
My two cents:
For what it’s worth.
I wanted to write up a review with the mindset goal of making the true best 1:1 rep sub! Included in this thought process was that money was not an issue (no movement talks and $$$ for the budget) and that I can only use reps to create this 1:1 model. I had used a point system from 4 to 1; 4 being the best and 1 being the worst. I ranked each watch based on the things I felt are the most important starting from case, insert, bezel, date wheel, dial markers, dial, crystal, Cyclops, hands, SELs, and finally the clasp.

Case
I had started with the case comparison because that is the foundation of a build. The case accounts to 70% of the style of your watch. All of your main important features, functions, colors, sizes, are built on to this foundation. These were the main factors: Case shape construction, Crown guard shape, and rehaut engravings. With the total goal of building a 1:1 the Noob V9 (3135) comes out with the closest to gen. The rehaut is double engraving compared to the rest but it stands out with its deep and clear letters. Next, would be ARF. Nail engravings appear very light and not as clear. ZZF good laser but R O L E X engravings appear to not line up to the dial markers (no dial shown next to rehaut). Lastly noted, ZZF serial number font is off.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CASE2341


Insert
Factors: Color, numbers, engravings, and PIP. This comparison was the hardest one to rank since they all have improved so much. Hulk will be the true test of insert color, when it is released for ZZF. For this example, they all appear consistent with black coloring. We all know the common issues with the current favorites, Noob and ARF. Noob losing it’s insert coloring over time and ARF with its deep engravings. The deep engravings and the combination of paint they do use makes the insert very reliable to withstand time and fading. All the number and markers are accurate and nice between all the reps. The PIP stands out with ARF and ZZF. ZZF has construction very 1:1 with the gen. Nail is surprising good too. Having Nail and ZZF, it will have to stand the test of time to see if the paint does wear off. If this does happen there score will go down possibly worst than Noob.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
INSERT4312


Bezel assembly
Factors: Style, scallops, and rotation operation. None of these are 1:1 gen yet or close. They all have nice finishes and construction. One thing to point out is the Nail bezel does look like the angles are sharper, which makes it scream rep. Noobs have the best click noise and operation. ARF still comes out on top, as it looks the closest to gen and operates very well.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
BEZEL3421


Date wheel
Factors: Font, boldness, and alignment. Clean looked the best out of the pack. For ARF this is the watches kryptonite. There are some numbers there on ZZF in the 20’s that did not seem to line up as well (could be due to the alignment of the date wheel).
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
DW3124


Dial markers
Most do not look like gen and are a tell (nothing will replicate white gold). I had separated the markers from the dials grade. Factors: Roundness 12, 30, 45 markers, and style. Noob has the most noticeable round markers with 12, 30, and 45. ZZF did come out on top as the dial markers do seem to round a bit and does have the curvature. One thing I did not grade was the consistent lume, which was unavailable at this time. I’m sure they all look good (who buys a watch for the loom anyways??)
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
DIAL
MARKERS4132


Dial
Factors: Font, boldness, and style. Nothing gets close to gen yet and having so many variations of a dial it was difficult to score. I believe the dial is the most important feature of a watch because it covers so much space and your eyes automatically goes to it. But for this comparison I only went with what was in front of me based on the factors shown. I do know Noob has raised printed lettering, which I did not consider. Font and style looked the best with the two new kids on the block.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
DIAL4123

Crystal and Cyclops:
Factors: Halo, Black hole, laser etch crown (just have to have something).
I did not put much emphasis on the laser etch crown. No one sees this. Having a mark there at least lands you on the board. This is another feature that is not close to gen yet but based on the parts we had I ranked Nail as the best. The pictures of the Cyclops, color, had looked the best out of all of them. Most of these will not have too much of a black hole effect. There is an effect but inconsistency and bad Cyclops have led me to always say replace the crystal.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CRYSTAL
CYCLOPS3214

Hands
Factor: 3D effect, size, and shapes.
ARF hands down. Looks the best! No hands will replicate gen, as that white gold is too hard to create. ARF gives you that 3d presence and Noob coming in second place.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
HANDS1432


SEL’s
You already know, this is the most controversial tell. ARF hands down.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
SELS2413

Clasp
Factors: Style, crown, operation, engravings, and smoothness. ARF is the best one out there. Noob’s etching within the clasps is awesome.
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CLASP2431


Bottom line:

First and foremorst, thank you for taking the time out for the comparison. I can’t thank JTimewatch enough for doing this for the community as it strives for all of us to get better reps lol. To my surprise, ZZF did score the best out of the box on paper. If we do hear of the paint failing like the Noobs, it will fall out of contention. Also Nail overtook Noob. Here are my results:
ZZFARFNOOBNAIL
CASE2341
INSERT4312
BEZEL3421
DW3124
DIAL
MARKERS4132
DIAL4123
CRYSTAL
CYCLOPS3214
HANDS1432
SELS2413
CLASP2431
28272223


What do you think? Am I even close?? Just remember, money is no object and you had to build the best rep, what would you do?

Me: Noob V9 case, Insert and dial from ZZF, ARF hands and bracelet/claps with Nails crystal. Boom! The Ultimate Super Sub rep…on paper!

Am I ready yet? No, ARF and Noob has proven reliability and track record. It will be hard for me to buy the latest watches from Nail and ZZF even though they did a great job coming out with their product. One can only wish for this combination!

Agree with quite a lot of it and highly appreciate the effort!! This is a neutral and unbiased view. However a watch is incomplete without the movement and if one has to consider the current movements being offered in each of them, I think the SH3135 V2 tips the scale in ARF's favour to make it the better OOTB rep amongst the lot being considered.
 

Vvvlllooo

I'm Pretty Popular
13/6/15
2,412
1,770
113
Sorry to say this but the hands are so poor I couldn’t live with it. So buy 3 subs and mix them up or have someone do it if you don’t have the skills haha.

Yes, exactly lol
 

the_don_robinson

Active Member
20/4/12
325
6
18
Awesome review... very transparent ! Just shows everything is a trade off. At least now we are better informed on the options so cheers !

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

Alibaba89

Horology Curious
27/4/19
22
2
0
So I believe zzz is a good alternative for a ootb sub with eta movement. Since I want an eta movement I don't really care much about cg shapes. Only downside for me is the hands I believe. Maybe I will change them later some time with gen? Anyone knows if it's possible?
 

xartan

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30/7/16
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So I believe zzz is a good alternative for a ootb sub with eta movement. Since I want an eta movement I don't really care much about cg shapes. Only downside for me is the hands I believe. Maybe I will change them later some time with gen? Anyone knows if it's possible?

It’s not ETA it’s an asian clone. And there is no good reason to use A2836 instead of A2824. You cannot put gen hands on an eta or eta clone.
 

vkhaa

You're Saying I Can Sell?
11/3/19
49
8
8
Thank you so much for the review. I learned a lot from your posts. Kudos!
 

Smpfan

Renowned Member
18/9/11
996
303
63
Of course you can put gen hands on an eta or eta clone. But you‘ll need a modified hour wheel, canon pinion and pinion.


Greets Andi
 
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xartan

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Good to know. I guess any is possible with enough effort.
 

DanishPolish

Horology Curious
25/5/19
12
1
0
Excellent review and gives a good understanding that nothing is easy in this world :) As I am very new I hope its ok with question here !?
First of all I could be tempted to get one of ARF Noob or Nail cause the one and only I have has more mistake compared to these. ( Don't know which factory its from)
BUT I really would like to have a Sea Dweller 126600 . So in this "world" would it be safe to assume that the quality would be same for each factory when producing Rolex ? Or is any factory specializes in a certain model ?
Hope some can help me in this matter :)
 

xartan

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You need to read some threads about each model and factory. They each have their pros and cons. Also this thread is about the ZZF submariner, not where you should ask general questions.
 
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Stuvetjee

Russian Spambot Sales Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
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3/3/14
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Again awesome comparison bro jtimewatch . Really makes me thinking of building the perfect ootb rep with my V6s case as base lol
 

chigganv

Active Member
30/1/19
260
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jtimewatch

Can you show pictures of the engravings of each case?

"STAINLESS STEEL" + "ORIG. ROLEX DESIGN"
"SERIAL NO" + "MODEL NUMBER"