Please help me pull the trigger - BK Noob SD4000 V2 vs ARF Sub-C V2 vs ????

[dongdong]

Hello,

Firstly, i wanted to say thanks as I've got some good advice here on my previous post on 'best OOTB (@2019 edition) Sub-C or SD'.

The feedback from that post seems to be that the best watch options are either the ARF SD43 or the ARF Sub-C V2 with the 2836 movement given that i'm not planning on doing any mods to the watch. Although i like style of the SD43 the most, with it's super cool red lettering and bezel - i've decided the SD43 size is likely too big for my wrist. Therefore the ARF Sub-C is a safer greater choice within minimal faults, high QC and 904L, etc...

BUT, now i'd like further opinions on the following- I'm on the fence between the ARF Sub-C V2 (I assuming the 2836 V2 is the best option) or a SD4000. Unfortunately, ARF don't make an SD4000, but from what i've read it appears that the best SD4000 version is the Noobfactory SD4000 V2. The main downside i guess being it's not proper 904L and sometimes the overall Noob QC.


***
In your opinion- with the Noob SD4000 not being 904, does it shine/ sheen a little more different to a gen compared to a rep with 904 (and what are the other benefits of 904)? Not sure if it's in my head but think I can always spot a rep as they just seem to shine a differently to the gen (although maybe they're low-end cheap reps i'm seeing in the wild). Also is the bezel, dial, hands, date, lume, SEL, case, bracelet and clasp typically considered very good on the Noob SD4000 V2? I'd likely go with the BK edition which has an ETA movement added and the following-
***


Movement: Swiss ETA 2836-2
Mods:
- reinstall DWO for better date positions; or change out the stock DWO to my DWO if the stock one is dirty or got chipped paint
- straighten 6, 9 markers which sometimes are crooked
- line up the 12 o'clock marker to the engraved Rolex coronet on the rehaut
- reinstall bezel insert to line it up with the dail
- bezel tightened => no rocking bezel
- set proper crown stem length. The factory sometimes make it too long which puts pressure on the movement and can diminish WR
- replace the 2 movement ring tabs with Swiss made ones which better secure the movement in place
- replace the 2 movement ring screws with high quality ones which break less
- replace springbars so SELs are not loose in the lugs
Price: $608+shipping.
Noobfactory SD4000 v2: https://imgur.com/a/0f2ga0S


So, with your insight/ opinion-
- which is the better watch and closer to gen between the BK Noob SD4000 and the ARF Sub-C V2 2839?
- OR if i'm going Sub-C is BK's Noob V9 ETA 2836-2 the best option over the ARF (as then i'd have BK QC and fixes + 904L this out-do the ARF sub-c V2?

I understand some may think save $200 vs getting a BK and do my own QC but i'm not much into this hobby like you so not overly knowledgeable and would probably not bother going too in depth myself. Yet i'd like a nice fun and highly accurate watch that is of quality.


Any other options you'd throw in the mix with the above two models?


Cheers!

 

[muiramas]

A few things:

The ARF Sub uses the 2824 not a 2836.

There is a very tiny difference in colour between 904 and 316, but you’re mistaken - you can’t look at a watch and say what steel it is unless, maybe they are side by side.

You / BK can’t buy a Noob SD4k v2 as it’s not made any more.

Personally I think that BK’s mods are not applicable any more, or at least not as applicable as when the Noob V5 or whatever was out. Reps have come a long way over the last few years. I know he drops in a new ETA, but if the Asian ETA clone dies, you can buy a new one and have a local watch guy install it.

 

[dongdong]

muiramas thanks, you're right in the 2824. The Noob SD4000 V2 was in the list that BK himself sent me so maybe old stock (?) unless his list is not up to date. All other points well and vaild and would point to the ARF Sub-C being the best option. thanks,,, hmmmm *thinking*

 

[mgberns]

Noob does still make a SD 4000, which is probably what you'll get from BK, which would be Noob's latest version with any upgrades. As far as I'm aware through all their ceramic models the ceramic paint on the bezel has been updates, so this is a good thing.

In regards for paying a premium to BK, it definitely is worth it if you just want a good OOTB experience. He does pretty good QC, and unlike a TD, I'm sure he'll open the watch and address any QC issues versus a TD exchanging the watch for you to find another issue to the next example.

As far as the upgrade of a Swiss ETA movement, a new one cost around 200 + whatever you have to pay to install it. So the BK upfront cost is definitely reasonable.

The sub-c and the sd4k definitely wear differently. That being said, I have a 6.75 inch wrist and I find the sub to wear a bit too dainty for a sports watch.

If you're willing to venture away from Rolex, I think the blancpain fifty fathoms is a great sweet spot..

 

[muiramas]

The OP said the SD43 was probably too big - so the BPFF is going to be enourmous at 45mm! A totally different watch.

 

[dongdong]

Noob does still make a SD 4000, which is probably what you'll get from BK, which would be Noob's latest version with any upgrades. As far as I'm aware through all their ceramic models the ceramic paint on the bezel has been updates, so this is a good thing.

In regards for paying a premium to BK, it definitely is worth it if you just want a good OOTB experience. He does pretty good QC, and unlike a TD, I'm sure he'll open the watch and address any QC issues versus a TD exchanging the watch for you to find another issue to the next example.

As far as the upgrade of a Swiss ETA movement, a new one cost around 200 + whatever you have to pay to install it. So the BK upfront cost is definitely reasonable.

The sub-c and the sd4k definitely wear differently. That being said, I have a 6.75 inch wrist and I find the sub to wear a bit too dainty for a sports watch.

If you're willing to venture away from Rolex, I think the blancpain fifty fathoms is a great sweet spot..

cool good advice... thanks

 

[Smpfan]

You won’t notice the difference between 316L and 904L. It depends all on the quality of the surface treatment. If you grind, brush and/or polish both materials in absolutely the same manner you cannot spot the difference.
So don’t bother about the steel. The way the light gets broken by the brushing or polishing job does the difference for your eyes.

One thing to notice at the Noob SD4000: As on most of their reps this watch suffers from bad SEL fitment. On mine V2 there was a relatively big gap between lug and SEL. This is impossible to rework. Only thing you can do is centering the SEL as good as possible. Here ARF is far better!
There is a Noob V7 out there, too. This has got very very bad SEL fitment and a SA3135. Stay away from this.
And ARF‘s ceramic bezel insert is better, too. Noob has got sharp edges at the number engravings. ARF not. Better coloring of the engravings, too.


Greets Andi

 

[dongdong]

Thanks Smpfan ,,,, the ARF does sound like a higher grade watch than the Noob SD4000. But as i prefer SD4000 styling most (provided it can be of high standard like an ARF), i'll see what BK says regarding SEL, edges, bezel number engravings, etc, and if he can source something of sufficient QC (on par to ARF) then i'll go with that as it'll be nice to have the ETA inside i guess, and if not i'll join the Sub-C ARF club (no doubt a mega rep and best ootb rep based on all i've read)

 

[Tobel]

Thanks Smpfan ,,,, the ARF does sound like a higher grade watch than the Noob SD4000. But as i prefer SD4000 styling most (provided it can be of high standard like an ARF), i'll see what BK says regarding SEL, edges, bezel number engravings, etc, and if he can source something of sufficient QC (on par to ARF) then i'll go with that as it'll be nice to have the ETA inside i guess, and if not i'll join the Sub-C ARF club (no doubt a mega rep and best ootb rep based on all i've read)

Why don't you get the ARF SD43 in this case? Best of both worlds

 

[SOLEX]

I prefer the ARF 116610, but it is not a perfect rep.

 

[muiramas]

From the top, straight down the Sub is actually bigger than the SD4K. Because the latter has slimmer lugs. It’s just thicker is all.

The ARF Sub is also the better rep in my opinion. Some may say it’s small for a sports watch, but it’s really the perfect size.

 

[dongdong]

Why don't you get the ARF SD43 in this case? Best of both worlds

Love everything about it except for the fact it's 43mm,,, likely too big on my wrist at approx 6.7"

 

[Tobel]

Love everything about it except for the fact it's 43mm,,, likely too big on my wrist at approx 6.7"

Fair point, it wears bigger than a 116610 indeed.well all the best to find your dream watch

 

[dongdong]

Hey guys,,, so i'm still deliberating this but pretty close to pulling the trigger. I've got the final selection down to the following but i wanted to ask for opinions on the following (even though i'll still make the final call myself of course)

Option 1)
Noob Sea Dweller 4000 V2 (BK edition - ETA movement, BKs work-over) + a spongbob insert, as i hear the stock one isn't great (or has that been updated and addressed?). The cost all will be around $920ish (700 watch + 220 insert). I like everything about this except the fact that it's 316 and not 904. Also where would the dial quality be in comparasion to the ARF Sub? Also slightly concerned about the SEL although, BK thinks it's not such an issue.

Option 2)
ARF Sub-C V2 (BK edition - ETA movement, noob DW, BKs work-over = cost around $700) - i assume this option would give the nicest overall QC even with the above insert mod, the only downside being the SD4000 is "cooler" to me due to the insert markers and less common.

Option 3)
ARF Sub-C stock $500ish (do my own QC and i won't have the ETA movement but will be near 45% cheaper.


Sorry to harp on but any last final input?

:beef:

 

[muiramas]

Hey guys,,, so i'm still deliberating this but pretty close to pulling the trigger. I've got the final selection down to the following but i wanted to ask for opinions on the following (even though i'll still make the final call myself of course)

Option 1)
Noob Sea Dweller 4000 V2 (BK edition - ETA movement, BKs work-over) + a spongbob insert, as i hear the stock one isn't great (or has that been updated and addressed?). The cost all will be around $920ish (700 watch + 220 insert). I like everything about this except the fact that it's 316 and not 904. Also where would the dial quality be in comparasion to the ARF Sub? Also slightly concerned about the SEL although, BK thinks it's not such an issue.

Option 2)
ARF Sub-C V2 (BK edition - ETA movement, noob DW, BKs work-over = cost around $700) - i assume this option would give the nicest overall QC even with the above insert mod, the only downside being the SD4000 is "cooler" to me due to the insert markers and less common.

Option 3)
ARF Sub-C stock $500ish (do my own QC and i won't have the ETA movement but will be near 45% cheaper.


Sorry to harp on but any last final input?

:beef:

C.
You don't need to pay for any extra QC on this one, and the A2824 in mine has been running like a champ for nearly a year.

I'd like to know why BK can get a V2 Seadweller while no one else can. If he can don't fret about the 316/904 - there is no difference in the real world.

 

[Smpfan]

Option C. Others are far too expensive and not worth imho.

And I can tell you SELs of the SD4K have got a gap. Not very nice.
I can confirm these Asian etas are running very well, reliable and precise.

If the movement really should fail in a few years you can always source a gen eta and swap it in.

BTW:
Don‘t get fooled by this „Rolex 904L steel“ hype. You won‘t be able to tell the difference between brushed 316L and 904L. It‘s impossible if their surface has been treated in the same manner.
It‘s only marketing in rep and gen universum. 904L scratches as easyly as 316L.


Greets Andi

 

[dongdong]

Thanks Smp and Muira... Valid points. Good news on the 316... **Thinking** ????

 

[Blacksteel]

And I can tell you SELs of the SD4K have got a gap. Not very nice.

I have got a V2 SD4K BK mod - it just look fine!