Why go Gen ?

[asiparks]

Wearing my gen 216570 as I type, but if there was a reliable rep with CHS I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

i also have a gen Blancpain Fifty fathoms on bracelet, but I wear the rep ZF TI blue version way more, it’s just a nicer looking watch

 

[lcsrep11]

I think we are all very fortunate to discover the world of reps, I'm sure alotta guys in this for some years may not agree AS whole heartedly, but this is true shit. I almost spent the 5 gs on the oyster 39 a year or 2 ago, and I remember i just couldn't at the time, it would have been selfish of me and I had an engagement ring to worry about. I came back to it earlier this year, was going to buy the oyster 39, no, christmas is coming up, already had to stop working for family reasons, shouldn't and couldnt do it. Then SOMEHOW and I don't even know how, I found this world of reps. And I couldn't be happier. I'm more into watches than I EVER have been, more knowledgeable in horology in general...because of reps. This v9 feels like a Rolex. In my mind, it's a Rolex. I can't understand why anyone would pay these REDICULOUS prices when the reps are so close. V9 costs 500-600 bucks, actual cost of production of a six digit sub for Rolex...500-700 dollars. What would be the point on spending 10 grand after tax, on a watch that costs 500 to make, when you can get a near identical rep, for a realistic price point. The sub is a 500 dollar watch, gen or rep, no matter how you wanna justify it, it's branding and marketing and the warm glow in your balls you must feel knowing you actually spent that 10 grand??!! I'm not sure. Just speaking some TRUTH!

I agree and disagree with a lot of what your saying. I love watches and if money was no object I would have every gen that I could afford. If this was the case I definitely wouldn't be the millionaire waring a fake watch, not a chance. The replica world for me allows me to add some pieces that I like but cant afford buying gen. I have some gen watches but these to me are pieces that mean something to me one was a gift the other is my dream watch which I worked hard to get and could probably never live with as a rep no matter how good they get. Im not into cars and would rather have a 10k watch than waste it on a car, at least i won't loose on the watch. Both my gens have more than doubled in value. Buying gen if you choose the right model your only going to make money, they can be a great investment. Buying a rep your more than likely going to loose money either it breaks or a new version with updates come out and its old news.

Im very interesting in the replica world and fascinated with how good some of them are but I think your missing a lot of points in owning / buying a gen watch. V9 might feel like a rolex but it just isn't. If you really think it costs $500 to make a submariner you must be mad. Each and every Rolex is hand made and the man time alone will be more than $500. It takes a year to make and finish a Rolex they go through extensive wear and tear tests its not just thrown together for $500. More to the point these reps you think are worth $500 well think about it they probably cost $50 maybe $100 to make if that. Everyone has to make a profit. I appreciate both sides of horology rep and gen. If money was no object would I appreciate the rep world ?? In all honesty if that was the case I wouldn't even know about these forums or how good the rep world even was.

You need to understand a lot of members in these forums are not just rep owners and saying its ridiculous to purchase gens and there not worth the price tag is a bit silly. After all if we didn't sit the gens on such a pedestal, appreciate them for what the are and so badly and aspire to own them then the rep world wouldn't even exist and thats the simple fact of it all.

 

[rcom440]

If you really think it costs $500 to make a submariner you must be mad. Each and every Rolex is hand made and the man time alone will be more than $500. It takes a year to make and finish a Rolex they go through extensive wear and tear tests its not just thrown together for $500. More to the point these reps you think are worth $500 well think about it they probably cost $50 maybe $100 to make if that. .

Dont believe what Rolex says. They are biggest bulshitters in the watch business!!!!
all shit they say it’s just marketing tool to fool people how special those watches are. They are full of bullshit.... they even didn’t pay taxes for how many years? Fuck I think most people lost count... but it’s been many years.

 

[GingerBubba]

If you really think it costs $500 to make a submariner you must be mad. Each and every Rolex is hand made and the man time alone will be more than $500. It takes a year to make and finish a Rolex they go through extensive wear and tear tests its not just thrown together for $500.

There are a lot of articles out there, some by respected publications, trying to answer the question of how much it costs Rolex to produce a steel sub. $500-$1000 covers most publications' educated guesses.

 

[lcsrep11]

Dont believe what Rolex says. They are biggest bulshitters in the watch business!!!!
all shit they say it’s just marketing tool to fool people how special those watches are. They are full of bullshit.... they even didn’t pay taxes for how many years? Fuck I think most people lost count... but it’s been many years.

Dude it costs thousands and years to train someone alone to be a qualified Rolex watch maker I don't care how much bullshit they spin a submariner isn't thrown together for $500 yes they mark up is a lot but thats

The company was very well structured as a charity wouldn't you do the same if it was your company and you were in that position. Apple don't pay taxes it doesn't stop prob half the population owning an iphone. Come on man its the way the world spins round its nothing to do with the craftsmanship of the watches. At the end of the day they are that special that theres thousands of people wanting one so bad they are paying thousands over list or buying replicas and on these forums searching for the most GEN like. Then some even take it to the next step franken watches spending even more to reach perfection. Its silly to call a watch not worth the price tag then research your balls off to try and find a copy that can pass for it. If it wasn't worth the price tag why would you want the copy ?? It doesn't make sense. They are an excellent watchmaker and a respected brand thats why we are all here.

Also i never understand why its only Rolex that get shit about how much they charge premium.....its pittance compared to Patek and the grey market price is 20k over list on a stainless naulitus !

 

[SikRipAndPanic]

Wear the watch for what it is but don’t fool yourself or anybody else
Real or rep a nice watch is a nice watch
I feel good wearing both.
I’m just happy I found the hobby as I have a more extensive range now but I’m under no illusions on what I have on my wrist but with 40+ I’m the box and winder I simply could not or would not pay for those in gen.


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[lcsrep11]

There are a lot of articles out there, some by respected publications, trying to answer the question of how much it costs Rolex to produce a steel sub. $500-$1000 covers most publications' educated guesses.

Guesses is the key word in these articles. Regardless what it costs to make its the demand what drives the price. AP, Patek, Ferrari, Cristal and Louboutin there all the same. U think a company is going to make a product and sell it for $10 profit if they can make thousands. Come on. The point is a product is worth what someone is willing to pay and in the case of a stainless daytona in the UK that can be anywhere from £12k to £20k zenith is a whole different ball game. Just remember its us the general public that drive these grey market prices up so high if we though naaa thats too much over list and didn't pay the premium you would see them in the AD windows there would be no demand and there wouldn't be pages and pages enthuse forums searching for the ultimate rep either.

 

[rcom440]

Dude it costs thousands and years to train someone alone to be a qualified Rolex watch maker I don't care how much bullshit they spin a submariner isn't thrown together for $500 yes they mark up is a lot but thats

like I said Rolex is bullshitting about the proces of making and coast of making their watches. It’s been a well known fact for some time now.

 

[GingerBubba]

Guesses is the key word in these articles. Regardless what it costs to make its the demand what drives the price. AP, Patek, Ferrari, Cristal and Louboutin there all the same. U think a company is going to make a product and sell it for $10 profit if they can make thousands. Come on. The point is a product is worth what someone is willing to pay and in the case of a stainless daytona in the UK that can be anywhere from £12k to £20k zenith is a whole different ball game. Just remember its us the general public that drive these grey market prices up so high if we though naaa thats too much over list and didn't pay the premium you would see them in the AD windows there would be no demand and there wouldn't be pages and pages enthuse forums searching for the ultimate rep either.

I was only stating that a lot of market commentators think Rolex make the steel sub for somewhere between $500 and $1000. I wasn't commenting at all on what I think it's worth.

 

[lcsrep11]

like I said Rolex is bullshitting about the proces of making and coast of making their watches. It’s been a well known fact for some time now.

How are they bullshitting when you will find not a single iota of information regarding what it costs to make a Rolex ?? Its all hear say and chinese whispers about what it costs because they never release any figures. All they release is the details of the training and processes to make them and what a watch goes though during manufacturing processes. No bullshit has been said.....simply nothing has been said relating to figures. Only people on forums or gossiping has come to these conclusions he said she said when really no one has a clue. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it costs to make. Its what you can get for it when you come to sell it, its a simple as that because at the end of the day thats what its worth. I was offered £13000 for my 116520 recently and having paid £6k for it in 2011 i know im happy.

 

[rcom440]

How are they bullshitting when you will find not a single iota of information regarding what it costs to make a Rolex ?? Its all hear say and chinese whispers about what it costs because they never release any figures. All they release is the details of the training and processes to make them and what a watch goes though during manufacturing processes. No bullshit has been said.....simply nothing has been said relating to figures. Only people on forums or gossiping has come to these conclusions he said she said when really no one has a clue. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it costs to make. Its what you can get for it when you come to sell it, its a simple as that because at the end of the day thats what its worth. I was offered £13000 for my 116520 recently and having paid £6k for it in 2011 i know im happy.

Do more research.

 

[lcsrep11]

Do more research.

Prove me wrong. Show me official figures from rolex stating how much a watch costs to make.

 

[muiramas]

Prove me wrong. Show me official figures from rolex stating how much a watch costs to make.

You wont find that for any product.

Break down and add up end to end every process it takes to put together a Nissan Micra and you'll end up at around 5 years - but Nissan would never claim each Micra takes 5 years to make.

What I'm trying to say is there's a way to spin everything.

You show us how much it costs to make a Sub...

 

[gareth]

Got to also remember it’s not just the production cost that matters.

Rolex have offices in very expensive locations like Central London, so they pay rent plus business rates for offices across the world.

They have advertising costs and sponsorship deals with sports personalities which are very expensive.

In total 2,800 staff, all on the payroll, for functions such as marketing, legal, accounts, management, R&D, sales etc. All of this is outside of the production process, factories, equipment costs etc.

To look purely at the production costs might be misleading, because they have lots of other costs to run their business.

Also remember they don’t sell at RRP (the authorised dealers have to make their markup). But Rolex is a very profitable company, so even after all of these costs are factored in we can safely assume they are making a lot of profit.

Production costs alone, I can well imagine they are spending less than $1,000 on producing a typical Rolex watch (look how close the rep factories get for £200-£300). But it’s not the full picture.




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[lcsrep11]

You wont find that for any product.

Break down and add up end to end every process it takes to put together a Nissan Micra and you'll end up at around 5 years - but Nissan would never claim each Micra takes 5 years to make.

What I'm trying to say is there's a way to spin everything.

You show us how much it costs to make a Sub...

Which is exactly my point, previous poster telling me to do more research when i know no matter how much research you do you will never find the answer as its never been released. No one actually knows how much production costs are its all hear say and Rolex aren't actually bullshitting or claiming anything. All they do is tell you the processes and time scales what goes into making a watch and give you a retail price nothing more.

 

[lcsrep11]

Got to also remember it’s not just the production cost that matters.

Rolex have offices in very expensive locations like Central London, so they pay rent plus business rates for offices across the world.

They have advertising costs and sponsorship deals with sports personalities which are very expensive.

In total 2,800 staff, all on the payroll, for functions such as marketing, legal, accounts, management, R&D, sales etc. All of this is outside of the production process, factories, equipment costs etc.

To look purely at the production costs might be misleading, because they have lots of other costs to run their business.

Also remember they don’t sell at RRP (the authorised dealers have to make their markup). But Rolex is a very profitable company, so even after all of these costs are factored in we can safely assume they are making a lot of profit.

Production costs alone, I can well imagine they are spending less than $1,000 on producing a typical Rolex watch (look how close the rep factories get for £200-£300). But it’s not the full picture.




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They have their own in house foundry and make their own gold, they have scientists working on metals and ridiculous security in place for secrecy. People just automatically think about a watch production and dismiss everything else that make the company and the brand what to is.

 

[whoreallyknows]

They have their own in house foundry and make their own gold, they have scientists working on metals and ridiculous security in place for secrecy. People just automatically think about a watch production and dismiss everything else that make the company and the brand what to is.

904L isn't some trademark of exclusivity. Its a hallmark of excess idiocy, as 316L is actually enough.

Gold? Rolex isn't the only watchmaker who has their own blends and proprietary variants on gold and mixed metals. Stop buying the hype.

Rolex is busy trying and convincing people like you that a ceramic bezel I worth 2 year wait lists and well above MSRP prices tags and other brands are onto full ceramic watches like its no big deal (cause it isn't anymore). Rolex is trying to be like DeBeers, thats fine, but we don't have to respect it.


I'll posit this to you. Rep makers with the new Daytona have gotten so scary good that at ~600 dollars you have reps that can make "Rolex experts" look stupid, so where is the 15x MSRP coming from, exactly? And this applies to all brands really. We're paying for a name. A historic name to be sure, but a name none the less.

An automated name these days. I can stomach Patek charging what they do. Handmade in a lot of the sense of the word. But Rolex? On mass produced cases and movements with less finishing than a Seiko? Yea, okay.

 

[mech500]

Got to also remember it’s not just the production cost that matters.

I can well imagine they are spending less than $1,000 on producing a typical Rolex watch (look how close the rep factories get for £200-£300). But it’s not the full picture.

I agree.

But if the rep factories add some hand finishing and a few extra polished bevels here and there together with even better machining/fit tolerance, then I can see the price going up by at least x3 fold.

Ask a machine shop to make you a simple part with a few holes and they might quote you say £500. Now add a few bevels and ask for a finer finish....and you ain’t getting change back from £1500




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[rcom440]

Which is exactly my point, previous poster telling me to do more research when i know no matter how much research you do you will never find the answer as its never been released. No one actually knows how much production costs are its all hear say and Rolex aren't actually bullshitting or claiming anything. All they do is tell you the processes and time scales what goes into making a watch and give you a retail price nothing more.

You won’t find honest answer from Rolex themself - they would never tell you truth anyway.

 

[lcsrep11]

904L isn't some trademark of exclusivity. Its a hallmark of excess idiocy, as 316L is actually enough.

Gold? Rolex isn't the only watchmaker who has their own blends and proprietary variants on gold and mixed metals. Stop buying the hype.

Rolex is busy trying and convincing people like you that a ceramic bezel I worth 2 year wait lists and well above MSRP prices tags and other brands are onto full ceramic watches like its no big deal (cause it isn't anymore). Rolex is trying to be like DeBeers, thats fine, but we don't have to respect it.


I'll posit this to you. Rep makers with the new Daytona have gotten so scary good that at ~600 dollars you have reps that can make "Rolex experts" look stupid, so where is the 15x MSRP coming from, exactly? And this applies to all brands really. We're paying for a name. A historic name to be sure, but a name none the less.

An automated name these days. I can stomach Patek charging what they do. Handmade in a lot of the sense of the word. But Rolex? On mass produced cases and movements with less finishing than a Seiko? Yea, okay.

I never said 904L is a trademark of exclusivity nor did i even mention it, i'm well aware what it is I used to work in an industry that dealt with gradients of stainless steel. Its less susceptible to corrosion than 316 and is more difficult to work with. Anyone can buy it and use it as a product. The only idiocy in the matter is the $100 odd price increase the rep makers are charging for 904L when in reality gram weight wise its a tiny tiny fractional difference we are talking grams not tonnes its mental. Nor did I ever say that Rolex are the only watch brand that make there own gold blend. Its another part of the cost that goes into making a watch that is all. Im not buying any hype.

Rolex aren't trying to convince me anything about their ceramic bezel I prefer my 116520 hence thats why i own it. As for a 2 year wait hahaha good luck with that. Id get yourself on the list right now if you can and make yourself a few quid flipping the watch for some more reps. Theres more than a 2 year wait for a submariner at most ADs these days. My AD aren't even accepting names the list is already 20 years long with their 2 watches a year that they get in stock.

Im yet to see or hear of a replica rolex going to a certified Rolex watch smith (this is the only person I class as a Rolex expert) and not been pointed out as a rep within minutes of taking the case back off or look at under a loup for that matter so sorry but thats just crap stop kidding yourself and believing the hype around these new daytona replicas. Yes these reps are good but there a long way off that standard. Yes we are paying for a name but that name will hold its money and even make you profit over time its a good investment.

15XMSRP your comparing a backstreet warehouse in china with a multi national multi billion dollar company do you not realise theres more costs to factor in than just the production. There advertising, sponsorship, design and 100s of other aspects that go into making these watches. All noob do is take one to bits and copy it and they cant even do that perfectly theres still tells. Laughable chrono dials on the black face for one and good luck going for a swim because thats just luck of the draw.. No wonder its only $600 there prob making $500 at that.Its taken them decades to produce a replica 4130 thats how good it is.

Gen wins over Rep simple as that. I appreciate the reps for what they are but that is all they are. Copies of something else that deep down you really want. Why the hell else would you buy the rep.

Sounds to me like you have a bit of deep hatred towards the company to be honest. Comparing a seiko to a rolex is pretty funny. Maybe your comparing seiko to a Noob or an Arf or some other rep.