The Official AHX Milgauss Megathread
This will be getting a total rewrite soon! I'm currently in the process (26/04/11) of creating my second Megathread, 'The Official AHX Seamaster Omegathread' and The Official AHX Milgauss Megathread is quite disorganised compared to the new one, which features a table of contents structure, version history, better sorting and standardised image sizes. No content from this one will be deleted, just rewritten, and where possible I will retain credit for information I have added from other people. Pictures also won't be retaken, just resized where necessary.
Look forward to it!
A bit about me before we begin... (Feel free to skip.)
As you can see from my join date, I have not been around here for very long.
I am not even a VIP member YET, this will change very shortly as this community, as you will see, has earnt me a wealth of knowledge and lead me to the successful purchase of a beautiful replica watch.Well I prewrote this post a couple days ago and since then I’ve been given an honorary VIP membership for my services to the rep community, how very very kind! Thank you, I’m sincerely grateful!
I am a veteran forum user, I've done my time learning how internet communities operate, and I've spent many many hours researching this particular community and specifically, the Rolex Milgauss replica so I make this post from a position of some authority. If you've seen enough of my posts, you'll know that many of them offer detailed information about the Rolex Milgauss, and I am apparently getting a bit of a reputation as the forum's "Milgauss Man."
What drew me to this watch, or in fact, this community, is New Scientist magazine. I'm an 18 year old Information Technology student, I work in IT support for an online learning contractor, and I have a subscription to New Scientist. Rolex are a big advertiser in New Scientist, in fact, a lot of issues have a full page Rolex ad on the back cover, and it was the issue from the 22nd of May, 2010, that featured the Rolex Milgauss 115400 GV, Glace Verte. It was penned as "The Scientist's Watch" and as being in IT I'm a little bit geeky, that suits me just fine. I also researched the Milgausses history and it's pretty cool to say the least. I've always liked watches but never really seen one that took me until that point. That sophisticated polished steel bezel, coupled with the polished links and orange accents, and that literally striking lightning bolt seconds hand. I knew from the very name ROLEX that it would be well beyond my means at this point (I could afford it but as an 18 year old it would be very financially irresponsible to do so), but my interest was piqued. I began searching online and very quickly found Replica Watch Info. What followed were many, many hours of research, reading, and amazement at how such a huge and friendly internet community could exist around a counterfeit trade. So many informed, intelligent and helpful posts, very little bashing of noobs or ripping people off, I knew I'd found the right place. I quickly established that the dealer I'd been looking at for a replica Milgauss in Australia was a sham, and set my eyes on the trusted dealers based on tons of peer reviews. However, I found that 90% of the reviews were lacking in detail, and it was difficult to establish the levels of service these dealers offered. I eventually deduced from the overwhelming amounts of mentions of good service and QC he was getting that Lay at Replicamake was the optimal choice to purchase my Milgauss, even though I had originally considered Puretime for their more professional site. By this point I had also discovered the flaws and advantages of each of the three Milgauss models at length, and decided on the black for reasons that will be covered in the actual Milgauss review. I got Lay's e-mail from the dealers section and contacted him with my specific requests I had based on my research, chiefly;
However, Lay got back to me relatively quickly and told me he would not be able to get me one with aligned rehaut. This was a dealbreaker, so I contacted Angus at Puretime, and he said those would be no problems. His service, as seen here was exceptional even though it took three watches to get one to my standard, and I'd highly recommend him. I don't think the watch ended up getting water tested but it's got aligned rehaut and is in next to perfect nick, that’s good enough for me.
That’s just my story about how I came to be here and how I’m now hooked. I already have numerous reps I have my eye on:
But if you’re here, you want to read my information on the Milgauss, not see me harp on about myself, so here goes…
It’s watch time!
The watch left from Puretime on the 18th and arrived to me in Adelaide on the 24th. Unfortunately, as explained in my Puretime review thread, it got taken to my local Post Office! Knowing I would not be able to get there in time after work and then the day after was Australia Day, I got up bright and early in the morning (7:30AM!) just to be able to make the trek to the Post Office to collect it and get to my station on time to get to work. I signed for it, showed ID, and then got my hands on the EMS box. Packaging looked good. I anxiously opened the box, and inside was a thickly wrapped, surprisingly heavy watch shaped bit of foam. Oh boy! I hastily cut it open and out came the Milgauss…
Apologies as I didn’t take any photos of the unboxing since I had to do this somewhat hastily on my way to work…
First Impression
I’d already examined one in a display case in a jeweller in Adelaide but even still, seeing my very own (Replica of course
) in its shrink wrap and running was very awesome. I wasn’t prepared for how much I’d like it. Straight away I realised I already loved it. I gave it a once over, could see it was already running so not DOA, and took off all the shrink wrapping. I have a 7†wrist, and I had to remove three links while on a moving train, but the Rolex bracelet is so well designed that it was very easy. One of them was quite stiff and a bit difficult, two came straight off without resistance.
Teasing you with a not very interesting shot of the spare links! Damn my small wrist!
Clasp
I focused my attention on the clasp. Rolex crown logo looks fairly good, clasp is nice and tight, fits great, but it’s not perfect. Straight away I noticed a dent on the polished area near the crown, this was actually visible in my quality control photos but it looked like a bit of fluff or a bubble in the wrap or something so I didn’t notice it. Even if I had it’s nothing that concerns me, just as I’m doing an in depth review I really have to mention it.
Exterior shot of the clasp on my wrist, showing fitment, logo and dent. In case it's not obvious, the dent is just above and to the right of the coronet. I suppose if anything this is just a nice little identifier that says "This is Jake's watch" so I don't mind.
Now, the inside of the clasp lets this watch down a little bit, I’ll be honest. The etching is fantastic and sharp, the actual action to close it is nice and solid, but the comfort link is in need of some attention, as it is extremely stiff and appeared to be quite dirty. I did my best to clean it with a q-tip before I eventually get around to cleaning and oiling the whole bracelet so no pics, but it was grimey with bits of built up grit. On the inside of the buckle I actually found a big fingerprint as well. The links are great, move very smoothly as is, no rattle or anything. Everything is functional and mostly very good, it’s just the comfort link is awfully stiff and dirty and was actually quite painful to try and use.
The nicely engraved clasp… bits. I dunno the technical name for this part of the buckle, feel free to chime in and I’ll edit to include.
Interior shot of the clasp itself. You can see now it's pretty clean but on the other side of the comfort link there is still some grime and the comfort link does not move as freely as the rest of the bracelet. Before this photo was taken there was a big greasy fingerprint in that empty space behind the comfort link and there were bits of grime everywhere. Not fantastic.
Safe to say this was the worst part of the watch and it’s not a huge deal which is great! I probably won’t bother to try and get that dent out, I don’t think it’s worth it, I’ll no doubt eventually scuff this watch myself (There are already a few hairline scratches) and it’s such a minor issue.
Bracelet
The fitment on the mid links and end links is all fantastic. I took three links out for my 7†wrist and it fits like a glove, it’s not very easy for me to say how heavy this watch feels because I have nothing to compare to. The best I can say is it’s very comfy, feels just right. The heft initially put me off but it took less than a day to get used to it. I have it on reasonably tight, so once I attend to the comfort link, when summer hits I can just pop the link and it’ll be nice and loose and comfortable there too. Couldn’t be happier with how it fits me and how it feels.One complaint, it's not a problem with the replica I don't think but I can't actually close the comfort link without taking the watch off, which kinda sucks. Would be nice if there was a way to do that. Unless I'm using it wrong? (17/03/2011 Addition) - It can be a little tricky at times depending on how hot my wrist/hand is, but it can be both opened and closed with ease now, on my wrist. Perhaps it was just a little tight from the gunk when I first got it which has long since been cleaned. The PCL's (Polished centre links) are awesome but develop scratches quickly, not a fault of the replica just sucky haha as I bang mine around a bit as a daily beater.
(17/03/2011 Addition)
A little bit on the functionality of the bracelet. First of all, the clasp is awesome. Clicks in and stays solid, the lever is loose when open but stays tight and perpendicular to the rest of the clasp when closed. Lifting the outside of the lever applies pressure to the deployant clasp from the inside of the lever (It's on an axis) and the pressure forces the clasp open, there are two springbars holding the lever in. The action is SOLID. I have closely examined the gen and this is all thoroughly identical to gen. The bracelet is also comfortable, it doesn't pinch at all, it is very smooth, no squeaks. Only problem is, now that I've had it for a while, I've noticed every now and then the link screws can work themselves a little loose. This is nothing to worry about, they don't come out far enough for the watch to come off, just visually annoying. Some loctite or something is in order. Also, the serial number on the ends of the SEL (Solid end links) is quite poor, it appears to have been acid etched or something. You won't see this at all unless you remove the bracelet so it's not a big deal but you wouldn't be able to sell this as a gen bracelet for that reason alone I think.
Shot of the bracelet hugging my wrist beautifully. Sorry, it's a little out of focus I know.
Setting The Time (11/02/2011 Addition)
As I've had questions about this, I shall include it, but feel free to skip it if you are familiar with setting the time on this movement. The Milgauss I have has what is called an Asian ETA 2836, which is a more or less exact copy of the original Swiss ETA 2836-2. It is also referred to as A2836, Chinese 2836, blah blah. It is set in exactly the same way as the Swiss movement it is based on, but this isn't terribly clear to everyone so I'll give a brief explanation of what is required to wind and set this watch.
The watch is an automatic hand-wound, which means you need to wind it and then your general day to day movements keep it wound. It has about a 40 hour power reserve so you can usually get away with not wearing it every day but it needs to be worn every couple of days or it will stop and need to be wound again. For reference, I wear mine on and off daily and usually take it off to sleep at night and I've never had to wind it since I initially got it. When I first got mine in the mail it was actually still ticking which surprised me. In any event, to set the time or wind the watch, the following procedure is required:
Replacing The Bracelet (04/02/2011 Addition)
Despite my initial confusion, replacing the bracelet is relatively easy. The easiest way I can explain to do it is to first of all get some tape or something and mask off your lugs. You may think you'll be fine and you won't scratch them but it is very easy to slip, as I learnt the hard way when I put a very light scratch into one of my lugs during removal. There are actual tools for this but I found that if you just get a push pin, you can insert it in the holes, apply it to the springbar which has a tiny notch in it on each side, and then simply apply pressure from the front of the watch towards the caseback with your thumb while applying pressure on the pushpin (And thus the springbar) towards the middle of the bracelet. This will, or at least should, be easy enought for you to pop one side of the springbar out. Once this is done, apply the same method for the other three notches and the end links come right off. Rolexes, or at least most of them including the Milgauss, take 20mm leather straps. I have a 20mm strap I ordered from Panatime on mine right now and the fit is perfect, so this is good, rep is correctly sized to gen.
Image of removed bracelet forthcoming...
Changing out the bracelet for leather does not really affect the weight of the watch that much. It does feel a bit lighter with the removal of the bracelet but the overall feel is the same. This watch is also well suited to leather. I bought a Crocodile style black leather w/ orange stitching & highlights from Panatime and it could not be any nicer or suit the watch any better. I recommend the same strap to anyone with a Milgauss, you could easily mistake it for a stock strap if you didn't know any better, it matches that well. I prefer the look of the stock bracelet, but having the option for leather is very good and I do not regret my purchase at all, I will wear it with pride.
Image of the Milgauss laid flat front side with my personal choice of strap attached forthcoming...
Image of the Milgauss laid frat back side with my personal choice of strap attached forthcoming...
Image of the Milgauss on wrist with my personal choice of strap attached forthcoming...
That said, I would not recommend a NATO strap or any other type of strap/bracelet for this watch. Stick to black or orange leather is my opinion. This is entirely up to you though, my word is not gospel.
An imagestolen borrowed from Watchuseek demonstrating how the Milgauss looks on a Nato, with orange accent.
Between The Lugs (04/02/2011 Addition)
First of all, on removing the bracelet, I found more grime. Not really surprising, and I've already cleaned it, but again, another indication of how reps have sucky QC sometimes, this watch was pretty dirty everywhere hidden. I don't look forward to hearing what state the movement might be in lol
Second of all, for anyone who is curious, the serial number & model code between the lugs are present and appear to be well engraved. On the top side between the lugs is printed "ORIG ROLEX DESIGN" on one line and "116400" under it. This is the correct model code for the Milgauss, so that is good. On the bottom side between the lugs is printed "STAINLESS STEEL" on one line and my M serial under it. The serial matches the one engraved into the rehaut, so as far as I know, between the lugs engraving checks out to how it should appear on a gen.
Image of top side between the lugs forthcoming...
Image of bottom side between the lugs forthcoming...
Printed (Not engraved) on the inside of the end links is "EO 72400" and next to that a small Rolex coronet. This, unlike the case body engraving, appears to be somewhat poorly done. I don't know what it should look like on the gen but being a Rolex, I am quite sure it would be very sharp and striking, this is very blurry and it almost appears a very slight shade of murky brown rather than black.
Image of the printing on the end links is forthcoming...
Case
Moving onto the actual piece itself, absolutely no complaints. Not a mark or blemish on it, it came beautifully polished and clean, the crystal looks immaculate and just reflects beautifully. No etched coronet, but eh, I'm not bothered. If a suitable replacement crystal is available let me know but as far as I'm aware no aftermarket crystal with a decent engraved coronet is available. If you know otherwise, let me know.
Side shot of the crystal. Correct height as on gen. Obviously no coronet. Note how perfectly formed it is, very impressive. In fact, the surface is about as flat as I've ever seen anything!
And again. Look at that, I swear I didn't alter that reflection in Photoshop it really was that immaculate on the camera.
Crown
The crown is great. Very sharp edges, same shape and size as gen. When totally screwed down, the coronet faces down and towards you. This is totally tight though. I like to leave it almost half a turn unscrewed, just to keep the coronet facing upwards. I've read anecdotal reports that gens don't have the coronet facing upwards either, that's just Rolex's 3D renderings, but I dunno, I like it facing correctly, even if it is like 1mm unscrewed. Also, the coronet has a line underneath it.I've seen lines and numbers of dots on others, I honestly don't know what this means other than the gen has a line too, somebody chime in with the answer and I'll edit.
(08/02/2011 Addition) mazz68 informed me via PM that the lines and periods underneath the coronet refer to the quality of the water resistance on the watch. I investigated this further and I concur with him, it appears that the Milgauss should indeed have the underscored coronet as I expected, as it means the watch is a Stainless Steel Twinlock. It is more or less their lowest level of water resistant watches. I have included the below image for reference.
(08/02/2011 Addition) A representation of the Rolex crown markings.
Crown shot. Fully screwed down.
In terms of function, it unscrews pretty nicely, pops out nicely, first turn does nothing, I can hear it clicking if I turn it anti-clockwise though, guess that's the movement's date function doing it's thing? Pop it out once more, hack movement, second hand stops, clockwise to wind (Or anticlockwise apparently) and setting the time is easy peasy. Which brings me to my next point...
Rehaut
The rehaut is correctly spaced and engraving is crisp and correct, but it's about a degree or two off on 3 o'clock and 8 o'clock. For reference's sake for anyone not clear on what the rehaut should look like, on the crown side, X's always line up perfectly with the hour markers. On the other side, R's always line up perfectly with the hour markers. A "correctly aligned rehaut" model looks like mine, and an incorrectly aligned rehaut model is very plainly off, often by several whole letters, as demonstrated by Puretime's stock image for this watch, and why I had to specifically ask for one with a correct rehaut. Why this still needs to be asked for I am not clear, the factories seem to just ship out stock at random?
This is a misaligned rehaut on the Puretime stock image. Note how the rehaut at 12 to 1 o'clock is correct, but then gets progressively worse and worse as the rehaut moves away from 12 o'clock until it's several letters off. At 7 o'clock, the marker lines up with the L, it should be lining up with the R. Two whole letters off, not two whole degrees. The issue is on the gen, and aligned rehaut reps, the correct engraving is ROLEXROLEXROLEX. These older inferior reps had ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX for some reason. There should be no spaces, it's just a continuous array of letters.
This is an aligned rehaut, on my watch, specially requested from Puretime. Note that although off by a degree or two in a couple places, it is a uniform ROLEXROLEXROLEX and the correct letters align with every marker.
In places it is spaced very slightly wrong and does not align perfectly, however, as demonstrated by drfcfighter, even gens are off by several degrees, so I am declaring the rehaut perfect on mine, as gens are even worse. The serial number is centred also, and is an M serial for anyone this information is relevant to. I have no idea what this means to be honest.
Face
The face is awesome. Print looks crisp as hell, fonts look correct and right size, no blemishes or anything, orange appears to be correct shade, nice and bright, markers are all correctly sized and lume is applied very well. Obviously, as we all know, the seconds hand is an issue. On the 21J Milgausses, it is a problem because it's heavier and is very jerky. I have an ETA 2836, so it's smooth as silk, or at least, eight silks a second.P) But seriously, it moves flawlessly, exactly like gen. Visually though, like every replica Milgauss I have ever seen, not only is it not quite sharp enough in the corners (L's instead of Z's I like to say) but I've seen pics of the gen where the hand appears to be slightly bevelled, the hand on the replica is flat. Not sure if this goes for the hour and minute hands too, but all the hands are flat. Still, this is the replica's only obvious tell, in photo's it is very obvious, in real life it is hard (04/02/2011 Removal) to tell but is certainly noticeable. Nobody will notice it on your wrist, ever, you'd need to stop and examine it side by side to notice. (04/02/2010 Removal) In photos it is substantially obvious though. Now, for the markers. If you're really looking up close and it's bright enough the lume is very slightly poorly applied at 1, 5 and 6 I think it was, but this is so so slight, you'd probably find gens the same. This is a proper anal complaint here.
(04/02/2011 Addition)
The replica Milgauss, as we know, has an incorrect seconds hand. I previously stated this was only majorly noticeable in pictures, I totally take this back, the difference in real life is actually very prominent, easily visible from the naked eye at a reasonable viewing distance. The problem is not only is the genuine hand noticeably sharper but it's also much better finished at the edges (As though it's been painted all over and the rep has only been painted top side) and it's very nicely bevelled as well so it has great depth. The seconds hand is a huge problem on our reps, it is definitely the wrong shape and nowhere near as sharp and catching as the gen, which shines brightly under light.
Another totally new flaw I noticed is the printing on the dial. As I said before, the dial printing on the replica is sharp and clear and I stand by this. What I did not realise and what cannot be seen in photo's of the gen Milgauss is that the actual orange dial text 'Milgauss' is actually bevelled and glossy like the seconds hand! That caught me by surprise, I think I might be the first person to be reporting this difference as I've never seen it shown in pictures nor mentioned on a forum. It is not a killer detail, it is very minor, but it means that even if you bought yourself a gen seconds hand, your rep would still be distinguishable to the naked eye to somebody who knew exactly what to look for. I still stand by my claim with a gen seconds hand you could fool AD's though.
(12/03/2011 Addition)
Thanks to shaunc, I now have a great photo of a gen Milgauss demonstrating the above flaws of the seconds hand and dial printing for the MILGAUSS text. Please note in the below image how the seconds hand is perfectly painted, glossy finished and 3D bevelled, whereas in my pictures of the replica (For example the one above) it is obvious the seconds hand is perfectly flat, the Milgauss lettering is not as raised, and though it does not show up in pictures, rather than being dipped, the seconds hand has been painted top and bottom so the edges display a very subtle, only noticeable in sunlight grey shine on the edges.
See comments just above images, this is a genuine Milgauss, not a replica.
The final additional flaw I noticed was that under light, it appears the metal edges of the hour markers are very slightly thicker, as they exhibit a much nicer shine than the replica. This could possibly have just been the type of light used in the AD, but it certainly seemed that way to me. I still cannot see a difference in pictures though, if this is even a flaw, it is a VERY minor one.
Apart from that everything else seems very very accurate, I am not aware of any flaws other than those listed here. I will obviously add more as I am made aware of them. I still think that if you were to fix the seconds hand and you had the aligned rehaut, that you have a near perfect super replica, but not so perfect as that someone who knew EXACTLY what to look for could not spot the difference.
(04/02/2011 Addition)
Straight on front shot. I actually found this surprisingly difficult haha!
Speaking of lume,
Lume
It's... I'm not sure actually. It's bright but it seems to fade really quickly. I'm talking like, within the hour after a day in the sun it's totally gone. Within ten minutes of a quick charge under an LED flashlight or holding up to a globe. Eventually will probably get relumed. Any trusted dealers here who do relume and service/regulate/waterproof?
I'm really sorry, as is evident from all my other photo's, I am not a photographer, just someone with access to a professional DSLR. This is most realised by the fact I could not locate the setting to keep the shutter from staying open way too long on lume shots, and this hilarious photo was the best I could do. So instead, I'll link one off Google, as mine looks exactly the same level of brightness and uniformity.
Please note this is a bit of a blurry photo, the edges are very sharp on the actual item.
Movement
I have no idea, I haven't opened the caseback (Which, by the way, is completely perfect) and have no plans to. I wound it once, 40 turns when I got it, and I haven't wound it since and it's still going. It's six seconds a day fast, which is on the top end of COSC regulations (-4s/d or +6s/d) but after a service that number should go way down to some serious awesome. I've seen Milgausses from Lay coming from factory with +0s/d or +1s/d. The good thing about it being fast instead of slow is it's super easy to correct it. Every morning I just unscrew the crown and pop it out one notch for six seconds, pop it back in and screw the crown back in, and it's accurate to atomic again. Don't have to "set it" as such, at all.
This is the caseback. Cannot fault this at all, clear lettering, brushed and polished in the right places... nothing to say really. Guess it didn't come with a hologram sticker, maybe it should have? I'd have taken it off anyway if it did.
This is a stock photo of the movement from Puretime's listing for this model, as I have not opened the caseback on mine.
And again...
Wrapping up, things to look out for on all Milgausses...
Well, that's about all I can think of to say. That's my in depth review of all the points I could think of about the black face Milgauss, which in my opinion is the nicest model, and it's also the most accurate to genuine. All Milgausses share the common seconds hand fault, and in the past the misaligned rehaut, though lately this is being fixed. If you are considering the Glace Verte model, then you will also need to note that the orange lume on the markers at 3, 6 and 9 is pretty bad. It does light up blue like gen but in daylight, it looks very dodgy and dark. The same goes for the white model, the lume on them is awful, it looks wrong.
(08/02/2011 Addition) acg2010 informed me via a reply on this thread that he personally tried on a white Milgauss and can subjectively confirm that the gens too can have slightly rough lume. I still believe the reps are at a stage where they are way off but it is nice to know that Rolex have not perfected the orange lume themselves, so if you're considering a relume or replica's improve in the future, there is a margin of error allowed.
Here are two pictures for an idea:
A genuine white face Milgauss with very bright, clean lume.
A replica white face Milgauss with may I say it, ugly, dirty looking lume. This has been getting a little bit better but it has a long way to go. If you are considering this model, do yourself a favour and contact one of our trusted dealers who relume to see if you can get this corrected.
Another issue you face with the Glace Verte and not the white is the really bad crystal. I have seen in the past that these GV Milgausses had semi decent looking appearance by way of AR tinting the crystal somehow, as demonstrated below by a member here, levelmanroger.
levelmanroger's old replica Milgauss. Note how the edge appears dark green and with depth.
However this is no match for the gen which has an actual proper green crystal.
Note the green is much clearer and brighter and is very obviously a crystal effect.
Though it is much better than current generation rings which ditch whatever levelmanroger's had in favour of a horrible silicon ring under the crystal which is green, and really horrible green AR coating.
Note that unlike this one which is obviously green AR, the genuine article has no green AR coating and does not appear bright green in the middle, only very slightly, as if looking through thick glass. This photo is actually fairly forgiving, on an angle that catches light, it is very very sickly green AR.
Those are the main flaws that you need to be aware of for the GV and white Milgausses that make them less accurate than the black Milgauss. Also note that the edge of the dial has orange numbers on the GV and white face models, but on the black models, there instead an accent of orange at each hour marker, and no numerals. A lot of the cheap Milgauss fakes have the numbers on the black Milgausses, this is wrong. I prefer the clean minimalist look so I actually like that Rolex opted not to include numerals. In the future, I hope that a Milgauss comes out with an updated corrected second hand but this is admittedly unlikely. It's very close, just it's the one thing keeping this rep from being what I would call a super rep. If they fixed the hand, and the orange lume on the white, in my opinion the black and white Milgausses would both be super reps. The GV will probably never be close to gen because the crystal is too difficult for the rep factories to replicate properly. And of course, there is no etched crystal coronet in any of them. On the GV this is correct to gen as the gen GV is the only Rolex currently made with no coronet etching. On the other two, it is a very slight flaw that could in time be rectified, but even without it these still have super rep potential with some minor fixes. If you love the Milgauss as I do, lobby your local rep dealer to push the factories to make this a super rep with promises of skyrocketing profits! That's my two cents! But I digress...
Also, you may be wondering which movement to get. In my opinion, the obvious choice is the Asian ETA-2836, the one I got. It features the same 8 beat per second automatic as the gen, and is cheaper than the Swiss ETA-2836 because some people here feel it is somehow less good at keeping time or less reliable. I disagree. Of course the $50 extra Swiss version is a better movement, the issue is, it's too hard to know if you're even gonna get one. Even the dealers can't tell the difference now, the Asian ETA is that bloody good. They even take some gen parts, and when you buy one, you know what you are getting, you know it will be a new movement. With the Swiss, if you even get one, it will likely be an old or refurbished unit. I'd rather have a new Asian than an old repaired Swiss. With that in mind, if you want your watch to last, I recommend it be serviced ASAP. These movements are not assembled in ultra high cleanliness laboratories, they often can have tiny bits of grit, dirt, or even in some cases hair! Get it serviced and cleaned and it should last you many, many years, decades even if you take good care of it. The bonus for this is you can get it regulated to keep amazing time as well, and waterproofed as you cannot trust factory waterproofing, they do it but they don't really test it so for all you know they missed a seal or what have you.
If you really wanna save some money you can opt for the lesser quality 21J movements. These are not as high beat and do not cope with the seconds hand as well, they are less smooth and in some cases extremely jerky, be wary. Also, many of the 21J models you can get for cheap suffer from some horrible inconsistencies with what I've listed above. The numbers and orange hands from the white and GV mixed in with the black face to create an ugly fantasy Milgauss springs to mind, this is a VERY OBVIOUS replica if you buy one. These often also have totally wrong, much lower quality casebacks without the convex, brushed and bold black lettering quality of the ones I have reviewed. Be wary of the 21J Milgausses is my opinion.
The same can be said for the supposed "Best Edition A3131" movement, which is a retarded leper in sheep's clothing, to coin a phrase. This is just an Asian ETA-2836, with a dodgy fake balance bridge mod, and coloured to look like a genuine Rolex Calibre 3131 movement, as found in real Milgausses and functioning as a faraday cage with an anti-magnetic parachrom blu hairspring. Obviously the fake Asian 3131 will NOT be a Faraday Cage so don't go chucking this thing at an MRI machine... although don't do that with a gen either cause they're only rated to 1000 gauss, an MRI would be much higher. These fake movements are garbage, I almost bought one, but quickly learnt not to. They are harder to get serviced, have dodgy added cosmetic mods that could bother functionality (Fake balance bridge) and do not look ANYTHING like the real Rolex movement.
A fake Asian Calibre 3131 from Puretime's listing.
A genuine Swiss Rolex Calibre 3131 from the old CERN Milgauss, a beautiful precursor to the current Milgauss models.
A little bit of history for you there, chucked in for free! This is a CERN Milgauss, made specifically for CERN employees, it can be identified by the completely lume free dial. Look at those stealth black markers and brushed face, mmmm! No replica of this exists. There is a cheap replica floating around that looks roughly similar but it is horrible, I do not recommend it. Face is wrong, size is wrong, everything is wrong.
Do not fool yourself, you may be buying a replica to look like a gen but buying this movement is meaningless, anyone who opens the caseback will immediately notice the difference, gold ETA or nickel fake Cal.3131, these movements are dodgy at best and serve no purpose but to cheat you out of $50.
An additional note on the super cheapies... (17/03/2011 Addition)
jrodshibuya posted an informative video of one of the super cheap Canal St. quality fakes of a Milgauss GV which I think is a useful addition to this thread, only insofar as to illustrate why these are replica's and not fakes. Please note a multitude of flaws much worse than the ones mentioned above on proper quality ETA movement replicas:
1. The case size and shape is wrong. Bezel is too big, rehaut is too deep and wokky.
2. As a result of the case size being wrong, the dial is also wrong shape. Thus, printing is too big and close together, markers are too close together, everything is wrong as a result of the entire shape of the watch being off.
3. The seconds hand is slow and jittery, very obviously an A21J movement or worse. These movements struggle to handle the weight of the lightning hand.
4. Lume looks way too bright and... dunno, looks like it might not even be lume, could just be coloured.
5. Crown isn't refined enough.
6. This isn't visible in the video but I happen to have seen this level of fake before so I know this one, the caseback is totally wrong. No nice printed black text (See my photo of caseback), not convex enough, no brushed finish, it seems to have a caseback more similar to models like Day Dates and Datejusts. Very wrong.
Also, one of the commenters mentions that the end links are brushed on the outside? It was a little vague but if he is referring to the edges of the end links being brushed on the gen, he is wrong. The Milgauss gen AND rep AND Canal St. fake all have polished centres, brushed outers and then the edges of the outer links are polished. Yet another person displaying ignorance to actual gen specifications.
Review Ratings
Packaging: 8/10.
Watch itself was packaged well with very thick padding, still running when I got it and not a mark on it that wasn’t there before it got shipped, but some more packing in the box to keep the watch still in transit would have been better. The well packaged watch would have been moving around a fair bit within the box.
Again, sorry, neglected pics.
Quality Control: 7/10
There was a dent on the clasp of course but it’s very minor, Puretime showed a picture and I just didn’t notice (Although they didn’t point it out either) and the inside of the clasp was very dirty. Clasp could have been a lot better. The rest of the watch was immaculate and the watch runs well. I have NOT tested water resistance because quite frankly I’m afraid to, I don’t trust the factory and I really doubt Angus actually bothered to water test it after going through two previous watches, but I have nothing to indicate it isn’t water resistant. Haha. Sorry.
Bracelet & Clasp: 10/10
“10/10, what a moron! He was just whinging about how shitty the clasp was, what a biased asshole!†AHH, SLOW DOWN READER BEFORE YOU HURL SUCH HORRID ABUSE AT ME! The clasp was dirty and needs to be oiled, which is a quality control issue. The actual function of the clasp is perfect, the engraving is super sharp, once clean, I am sure it will perform perfectly. It clicks and unclicks solidly, everything fits perfectly, the end links are perfectly flush and while difficult to use right now, the comfort link is really really bloody useful, what a great feature. Thanks Rolex! (I have no idea if they invented it but I’m thanking them for directly implementing it on this watch anyway.)
Case & Crown: 10/10
Zero complaints, cannot tell the difference from a gen. Highly polished, not a mark on them. Really beautiful, stylish watch in person. I was nervous it might look tacky with the orange accents but honestly, it’s beautiful, I love it. I would be content if I never wore another watch, although the replica addiction is calling me strongly. What I’ve done to have the crown face up, and I can’t imagine that this would cause any problems but again, please chime in if it does, is just very slightly unscrew the crown a quarter of a turn so the crown faces up like gen.
Face: 9/10
Clear and sharp, no crap anywhere in there, lume is well applied to the markers and hands, very slightly goes onto the chrome edge of the markers at but it’s SO slight. Lume is okay as mentioned, rehaut is correct but off by a degree or two as mentioned. When the engraving catches the sun occasionally, it looks as though it’s dead on unless you're really close up examining. The only really visible issue at all is the seconds hand being not as sharp and angular in the edges of the lightning bolts which is a known fault to all Milgausses, and it’s also flat, whereas the genuine seconds hand from pictures I have seen appears to be beveled. This is definitely the only part of the watch that would make me anything but 100% confident to walk into an AD with it (Please don’t walk into an AD with it) because it is noticeable if you are looking. If, on the other hand, you are not looking, you will not notice, the hand is still very good and you need to know beforehand what the Milgauss seconds hand is supposed to look like to go “Oh yeah that’s a bit wrong.â€
Also, I’m gonna lump the crystal into this section as well. It’s immaculate. No crown etched at the bottom but that doesn’t surprise me. I’m one of those people who can see the crown on a gen but some people I know don’t even notice it.
Movement: ?/10
I don’t think it’s fair to assign this watch a rating on the movement because I haven’t popped the caseback, I know very little about the actual functionality of movements and I haven’t serviced or regulated it, but it keeps +6s/d. Super easy to set it once a day as I mentioned. This watch was $188 from Puretime.
Conclusion: 9/10
There were issues, don’t get me wrong. A tiny dent in the clasp, the clasp is dirty on the inside and needs oiling, the rehaut is a couple millimeters off, and of course the seconds hand and missing coronet engraving on the crystal. However, save for the seconds hand, these are all very minor faults that either can be fixed or are not noticeable. This is a FANTASTIC rep. Pictures do not do it justice, it just looks so great in real life and on my wrist, I am really supremely happy with it, I can say with 100% confidence that I have a future in this game, and for Replica Watch Info’s absolutely ASTOUNDING friendly, helpful community, and wealth of knowledge, a VIP membership would have been purchased had it not been gifted to me for my services to the community, and again, thank you so much for that honour. Before RWI, I had absolutely no idea how amazing these replica’s could be, I was one of many who just assumed fake Rolexes and the like were cheap, chrome plated, battery powered, unscrupulous garbage. Ohhh how wrong I was. I genuinely believe that I could walk into a jeweler in Adelaide and buy a watch for $208 as this one cost me shipped and it would be absolute garbage compared to this replica. Hell, I reckon I could spend over $1000 and not get a watch this good. It has an absolutely stunning design, it is modern and stylish at the same time, with just the right amount of striking accents. It has a high beat auto movement which is great, a great stainless steel brushed and polished body and bracelet with a great clasp and comfort link, I would suggest anyone who is considering a watch and/or reading this to at least donate to RWI, this community, for me, turned a curious inkling into replica watches into a full time hobby, this forum has given me so much information that I bought with complete confidence and I am now wearing a watch that I hope I will have with me for as many years as possible. If it lasts that long (And of course if I last that long ), I’ll still be wearing it in 50 years probably, it is just sensational. And quite frankly, a VIP contribution is pocket change when you factor in the cost you can save by research (If not for this forum I would have been either scammed, or had paid like over $100 more for the same watch but with the fake Rolex Cal. 3135 movement)
Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope it wasn’t too long, I hope you enjoyed it and if you’re considering purchasing a replica Milgauss, I hope it helped you to make an informed decision. I genuinely enjoyed writing it and I really hope that it can help somebody as much as other people’s posts and reviews on this watch have helped me to get to this stage. I am sure corrections or additions can be made, please give me feedback, please comment, by all means please ask me questions, and I know some of the older members frown on this and since they’ll probably be reading, I apologise in advance, but if you really liked it, please show support by commenting or repping the post. Now, I think it’s time for a drink!
Adios, see you next purchase!
-AHX, The Milgauss Man.
This will be getting a total rewrite soon! I'm currently in the process (26/04/11) of creating my second Megathread, 'The Official AHX Seamaster Omegathread' and The Official AHX Milgauss Megathread is quite disorganised compared to the new one, which features a table of contents structure, version history, better sorting and standardised image sizes. No content from this one will be deleted, just rewritten, and where possible I will retain credit for information I have added from other people. Pictures also won't be retaken, just resized where necessary.
Look forward to it!
A bit about me before we begin... (Feel free to skip.)
As you can see from my join date, I have not been around here for very long.
I am a veteran forum user, I've done my time learning how internet communities operate, and I've spent many many hours researching this particular community and specifically, the Rolex Milgauss replica so I make this post from a position of some authority. If you've seen enough of my posts, you'll know that many of them offer detailed information about the Rolex Milgauss, and I am apparently getting a bit of a reputation as the forum's "Milgauss Man."
What drew me to this watch, or in fact, this community, is New Scientist magazine. I'm an 18 year old Information Technology student, I work in IT support for an online learning contractor, and I have a subscription to New Scientist. Rolex are a big advertiser in New Scientist, in fact, a lot of issues have a full page Rolex ad on the back cover, and it was the issue from the 22nd of May, 2010, that featured the Rolex Milgauss 115400 GV, Glace Verte. It was penned as "The Scientist's Watch" and as being in IT I'm a little bit geeky, that suits me just fine. I also researched the Milgausses history and it's pretty cool to say the least. I've always liked watches but never really seen one that took me until that point. That sophisticated polished steel bezel, coupled with the polished links and orange accents, and that literally striking lightning bolt seconds hand. I knew from the very name ROLEX that it would be well beyond my means at this point (I could afford it but as an 18 year old it would be very financially irresponsible to do so), but my interest was piqued. I began searching online and very quickly found Replica Watch Info. What followed were many, many hours of research, reading, and amazement at how such a huge and friendly internet community could exist around a counterfeit trade. So many informed, intelligent and helpful posts, very little bashing of noobs or ripping people off, I knew I'd found the right place. I quickly established that the dealer I'd been looking at for a replica Milgauss in Australia was a sham, and set my eyes on the trusted dealers based on tons of peer reviews. However, I found that 90% of the reviews were lacking in detail, and it was difficult to establish the levels of service these dealers offered. I eventually deduced from the overwhelming amounts of mentions of good service and QC he was getting that Lay at Replicamake was the optimal choice to purchase my Milgauss, even though I had originally considered Puretime for their more professional site. By this point I had also discovered the flaws and advantages of each of the three Milgauss models at length, and decided on the black for reasons that will be covered in the actual Milgauss review. I got Lay's e-mail from the dealers section and contacted him with my specific requests I had based on my research, chiefly;
- The rehaut must be aligned.
- I want QC pics to approve before sending.
- I would like it to be water resistance tested.
However, Lay got back to me relatively quickly and told me he would not be able to get me one with aligned rehaut. This was a dealbreaker, so I contacted Angus at Puretime, and he said those would be no problems. His service, as seen here was exceptional even though it took three watches to get one to my standard, and I'd highly recommend him. I don't think the watch ended up getting water tested but it's got aligned rehaut and is in next to perfect nick, that’s good enough for me.
That’s just my story about how I came to be here and how I’m now hooked. I already have numerous reps I have my eye on:
- Rolex Yacht-master: Love the white speckled dial and red contrast seconds hand. Plus, a date function. Gotta love that.
- Omega Seamaster Professional 300M: Brosnan wore one in Goldeneye, the best Bond movie and one of the best action movies ever, nuff said. Although if I was gonna say more, very stylish too.
- Rolex Submariner: Just a classic, everyone should have one.
- Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean: Really love this one, will probably try for a chrono though since I’ll already have the Seamaster Pro.
But if you’re here, you want to read my information on the Milgauss, not see me harp on about myself, so here goes…
It’s watch time!
The watch left from Puretime on the 18th and arrived to me in Adelaide on the 24th. Unfortunately, as explained in my Puretime review thread, it got taken to my local Post Office! Knowing I would not be able to get there in time after work and then the day after was Australia Day, I got up bright and early in the morning (7:30AM!) just to be able to make the trek to the Post Office to collect it and get to my station on time to get to work. I signed for it, showed ID, and then got my hands on the EMS box. Packaging looked good. I anxiously opened the box, and inside was a thickly wrapped, surprisingly heavy watch shaped bit of foam. Oh boy! I hastily cut it open and out came the Milgauss…
Apologies as I didn’t take any photos of the unboxing since I had to do this somewhat hastily on my way to work…
First Impression
I’d already examined one in a display case in a jeweller in Adelaide but even still, seeing my very own (Replica of course
) in its shrink wrap and running was very awesome. I wasn’t prepared for how much I’d like it. Straight away I realised I already loved it. I gave it a once over, could see it was already running so not DOA, and took off all the shrink wrapping. I have a 7†wrist, and I had to remove three links while on a moving train, but the Rolex bracelet is so well designed that it was very easy. One of them was quite stiff and a bit difficult, two came straight off without resistance.
Teasing you with a not very interesting shot of the spare links! Damn my small wrist!
Clasp
I focused my attention on the clasp. Rolex crown logo looks fairly good, clasp is nice and tight, fits great, but it’s not perfect. Straight away I noticed a dent on the polished area near the crown, this was actually visible in my quality control photos but it looked like a bit of fluff or a bubble in the wrap or something so I didn’t notice it. Even if I had it’s nothing that concerns me, just as I’m doing an in depth review I really have to mention it.
Exterior shot of the clasp on my wrist, showing fitment, logo and dent. In case it's not obvious, the dent is just above and to the right of the coronet. I suppose if anything this is just a nice little identifier that says "This is Jake's watch" so I don't mind.
Now, the inside of the clasp lets this watch down a little bit, I’ll be honest. The etching is fantastic and sharp, the actual action to close it is nice and solid, but the comfort link is in need of some attention, as it is extremely stiff and appeared to be quite dirty. I did my best to clean it with a q-tip before I eventually get around to cleaning and oiling the whole bracelet so no pics, but it was grimey with bits of built up grit. On the inside of the buckle I actually found a big fingerprint as well. The links are great, move very smoothly as is, no rattle or anything. Everything is functional and mostly very good, it’s just the comfort link is awfully stiff and dirty and was actually quite painful to try and use.
The nicely engraved clasp… bits. I dunno the technical name for this part of the buckle, feel free to chime in and I’ll edit to include.
Interior shot of the clasp itself. You can see now it's pretty clean but on the other side of the comfort link there is still some grime and the comfort link does not move as freely as the rest of the bracelet. Before this photo was taken there was a big greasy fingerprint in that empty space behind the comfort link and there were bits of grime everywhere. Not fantastic.
Safe to say this was the worst part of the watch and it’s not a huge deal which is great! I probably won’t bother to try and get that dent out, I don’t think it’s worth it, I’ll no doubt eventually scuff this watch myself (There are already a few hairline scratches) and it’s such a minor issue.
Bracelet
The fitment on the mid links and end links is all fantastic. I took three links out for my 7†wrist and it fits like a glove, it’s not very easy for me to say how heavy this watch feels because I have nothing to compare to. The best I can say is it’s very comfy, feels just right. The heft initially put me off but it took less than a day to get used to it. I have it on reasonably tight, so once I attend to the comfort link, when summer hits I can just pop the link and it’ll be nice and loose and comfortable there too. Couldn’t be happier with how it fits me and how it feels.
(17/03/2011 Addition)
A little bit on the functionality of the bracelet. First of all, the clasp is awesome. Clicks in and stays solid, the lever is loose when open but stays tight and perpendicular to the rest of the clasp when closed. Lifting the outside of the lever applies pressure to the deployant clasp from the inside of the lever (It's on an axis) and the pressure forces the clasp open, there are two springbars holding the lever in. The action is SOLID. I have closely examined the gen and this is all thoroughly identical to gen. The bracelet is also comfortable, it doesn't pinch at all, it is very smooth, no squeaks. Only problem is, now that I've had it for a while, I've noticed every now and then the link screws can work themselves a little loose. This is nothing to worry about, they don't come out far enough for the watch to come off, just visually annoying. Some loctite or something is in order. Also, the serial number on the ends of the SEL (Solid end links) is quite poor, it appears to have been acid etched or something. You won't see this at all unless you remove the bracelet so it's not a big deal but you wouldn't be able to sell this as a gen bracelet for that reason alone I think.
Shot of the bracelet hugging my wrist beautifully. Sorry, it's a little out of focus I know.
Setting The Time (11/02/2011 Addition)
As I've had questions about this, I shall include it, but feel free to skip it if you are familiar with setting the time on this movement. The Milgauss I have has what is called an Asian ETA 2836, which is a more or less exact copy of the original Swiss ETA 2836-2. It is also referred to as A2836, Chinese 2836, blah blah. It is set in exactly the same way as the Swiss movement it is based on, but this isn't terribly clear to everyone so I'll give a brief explanation of what is required to wind and set this watch.
The watch is an automatic hand-wound, which means you need to wind it and then your general day to day movements keep it wound. It has about a 40 hour power reserve so you can usually get away with not wearing it every day but it needs to be worn every couple of days or it will stop and need to be wound again. For reference, I wear mine on and off daily and usually take it off to sleep at night and I've never had to wind it since I initially got it. When I first got mine in the mail it was actually still ticking which surprised me. In any event, to set the time or wind the watch, the following procedure is required:
- Unscrew the crown (Dial on the right hand side of the watch) depending on how tight it was about 4-6 turns counter clockwise. You will know when you have unscrewed it because it will "pop" outwards slightly and will begin spinning more freely than when it was screwed onto the thread.
- At this point you will be in the date set function of the watch. Even though the Milgauss does not have a date function, the ETA 2836 movement inside of it does, it just has no date window or date wheel, the function is still here. You will notice the crown now spins counter clockwise with a click, but will not spin clockwise. Do not attempt to spin it at this stage, just leave it. The best you could do is adjust the date uselessly, the worst you could do is break it either by forcing it in the wrong direction or by trying to adjust the date too close to 12AM. Instead of spinning it again, pull it out one more stop, you will feel it pop out again.
- At this point, the seconds hand will stop. This is known as a "hack movement" and the watch movement is currently not ticking so you are free to wind and adjust now. I recommend you perform this step (Pull the crown one stop) at the exact moment the seconds hand strikes 12 o'clock, as it will make it easier for you to pinpoint so your minutes/hours hands match up with the seconds. Otherwise you could end up with your minute hand on a 10 minute marker when the seconds hand is at 6 o'clock. Not a big deal but potentially annoying or confusing if you're late for a bus or something and you need to know exactly how long you've got, are you a minute or two minutes late? The seconds hand will not move until you have completed winding/setting the time.
- Now that the seconds hand has stopped you are free to either wind the watch, or set the time. The process is essentially the same either way, the ETA 2836 movement can be wound both ways but I always wind clockwise. About 40 turns clockwise should fully wind the watch, give or take a few, which will give you about 40 hours of runtime without wearing it. Once you've hit that amount of turns, keep turning until the hands are where you want them, and simply push the crown back in one stop to restart the movement. Your watch will be wound, set, and accurate to the second if you pushed it back in at 00 seconds on an atomic clock and your watch seconds hand was also facing 00 seconds. Do keep in mind, 40 is not an exact number it is just a number I have used. You won't break your watch if you wind for 41, or even 51, or 61 or whatever, these movements have a clutch to prevent over winding. However, the less winding you do, the less you impart wear on the winding mechanism, so do try to wear your watch daily or put it on a watch winder so you don't need to do this as on the long term you could wear it out.
- Now that you're set and your hand is moving again, apply pressure (Not too much but not too little) towards the watch and turn clockwise. This will put it back onto the screw thread and screw the crown in. Voila! Your watch is set and wound. You shouldn't need to wind it again if you wear it regularly as I do but if you're as anal about me as time accuracy you'll probably be setting it a fair bit, as it is an automatic and being a replica, likely in need of regulation. If it's fast what you can do is, say it's six seconds a day fast (+6s/d, just within COSC regulations, as mine is) every day at the same time get up to step 3, and just wait six seconds, then skip to step 5. In other words, just hack the seconds hand and wait six seconds and put it back in so that it restarts six seconds slower and exactly back on time. Takes like 15 seconds a day to keep your watch basically perfectly accurate. That's pretty bloody good, no? If it's slow then you do need to set it to keep it back on track unfortunately because if you wait 54 seconds every time then not only is that annoying but gradually your minute hand will be out of sync.
Replacing The Bracelet (04/02/2011 Addition)
Despite my initial confusion, replacing the bracelet is relatively easy. The easiest way I can explain to do it is to first of all get some tape or something and mask off your lugs. You may think you'll be fine and you won't scratch them but it is very easy to slip, as I learnt the hard way when I put a very light scratch into one of my lugs during removal. There are actual tools for this but I found that if you just get a push pin, you can insert it in the holes, apply it to the springbar which has a tiny notch in it on each side, and then simply apply pressure from the front of the watch towards the caseback with your thumb while applying pressure on the pushpin (And thus the springbar) towards the middle of the bracelet. This will, or at least should, be easy enought for you to pop one side of the springbar out. Once this is done, apply the same method for the other three notches and the end links come right off. Rolexes, or at least most of them including the Milgauss, take 20mm leather straps. I have a 20mm strap I ordered from Panatime on mine right now and the fit is perfect, so this is good, rep is correctly sized to gen.
Image of removed bracelet forthcoming...
Changing out the bracelet for leather does not really affect the weight of the watch that much. It does feel a bit lighter with the removal of the bracelet but the overall feel is the same. This watch is also well suited to leather. I bought a Crocodile style black leather w/ orange stitching & highlights from Panatime and it could not be any nicer or suit the watch any better. I recommend the same strap to anyone with a Milgauss, you could easily mistake it for a stock strap if you didn't know any better, it matches that well. I prefer the look of the stock bracelet, but having the option for leather is very good and I do not regret my purchase at all, I will wear it with pride.
Image of the Milgauss laid flat front side with my personal choice of strap attached forthcoming...
Image of the Milgauss laid frat back side with my personal choice of strap attached forthcoming...
Image of the Milgauss on wrist with my personal choice of strap attached forthcoming...
That said, I would not recommend a NATO strap or any other type of strap/bracelet for this watch. Stick to black or orange leather is my opinion. This is entirely up to you though, my word is not gospel.
An image
Between The Lugs (04/02/2011 Addition)
First of all, on removing the bracelet, I found more grime. Not really surprising, and I've already cleaned it, but again, another indication of how reps have sucky QC sometimes, this watch was pretty dirty everywhere hidden. I don't look forward to hearing what state the movement might be in lol
Second of all, for anyone who is curious, the serial number & model code between the lugs are present and appear to be well engraved. On the top side between the lugs is printed "ORIG ROLEX DESIGN" on one line and "116400" under it. This is the correct model code for the Milgauss, so that is good. On the bottom side between the lugs is printed "STAINLESS STEEL" on one line and my M serial under it. The serial matches the one engraved into the rehaut, so as far as I know, between the lugs engraving checks out to how it should appear on a gen.
Image of top side between the lugs forthcoming...
Image of bottom side between the lugs forthcoming...
Printed (Not engraved) on the inside of the end links is "EO 72400" and next to that a small Rolex coronet. This, unlike the case body engraving, appears to be somewhat poorly done. I don't know what it should look like on the gen but being a Rolex, I am quite sure it would be very sharp and striking, this is very blurry and it almost appears a very slight shade of murky brown rather than black.
Image of the printing on the end links is forthcoming...
Case
Moving onto the actual piece itself, absolutely no complaints. Not a mark or blemish on it, it came beautifully polished and clean, the crystal looks immaculate and just reflects beautifully. No etched coronet, but eh, I'm not bothered. If a suitable replacement crystal is available let me know but as far as I'm aware no aftermarket crystal with a decent engraved coronet is available. If you know otherwise, let me know.
Side shot of the crystal. Correct height as on gen. Obviously no coronet. Note how perfectly formed it is, very impressive. In fact, the surface is about as flat as I've ever seen anything!
And again. Look at that, I swear I didn't alter that reflection in Photoshop it really was that immaculate on the camera.
Crown
The crown is great. Very sharp edges, same shape and size as gen. When totally screwed down, the coronet faces down and towards you. This is totally tight though. I like to leave it almost half a turn unscrewed, just to keep the coronet facing upwards. I've read anecdotal reports that gens don't have the coronet facing upwards either, that's just Rolex's 3D renderings, but I dunno, I like it facing correctly, even if it is like 1mm unscrewed. Also, the coronet has a line underneath it.
(08/02/2011 Addition) mazz68 informed me via PM that the lines and periods underneath the coronet refer to the quality of the water resistance on the watch. I investigated this further and I concur with him, it appears that the Milgauss should indeed have the underscored coronet as I expected, as it means the watch is a Stainless Steel Twinlock. It is more or less their lowest level of water resistant watches. I have included the below image for reference.
(08/02/2011 Addition) A representation of the Rolex crown markings.
Crown shot. Fully screwed down.
In terms of function, it unscrews pretty nicely, pops out nicely, first turn does nothing, I can hear it clicking if I turn it anti-clockwise though, guess that's the movement's date function doing it's thing? Pop it out once more, hack movement, second hand stops, clockwise to wind (Or anticlockwise apparently) and setting the time is easy peasy. Which brings me to my next point...
Rehaut
The rehaut is correctly spaced and engraving is crisp and correct, but it's about a degree or two off on 3 o'clock and 8 o'clock. For reference's sake for anyone not clear on what the rehaut should look like, on the crown side, X's always line up perfectly with the hour markers. On the other side, R's always line up perfectly with the hour markers. A "correctly aligned rehaut" model looks like mine, and an incorrectly aligned rehaut model is very plainly off, often by several whole letters, as demonstrated by Puretime's stock image for this watch, and why I had to specifically ask for one with a correct rehaut. Why this still needs to be asked for I am not clear, the factories seem to just ship out stock at random?
This is a misaligned rehaut on the Puretime stock image. Note how the rehaut at 12 to 1 o'clock is correct, but then gets progressively worse and worse as the rehaut moves away from 12 o'clock until it's several letters off. At 7 o'clock, the marker lines up with the L, it should be lining up with the R. Two whole letters off, not two whole degrees. The issue is on the gen, and aligned rehaut reps, the correct engraving is ROLEXROLEXROLEX. These older inferior reps had ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX for some reason. There should be no spaces, it's just a continuous array of letters.
This is an aligned rehaut, on my watch, specially requested from Puretime. Note that although off by a degree or two in a couple places, it is a uniform ROLEXROLEXROLEX and the correct letters align with every marker.
In places it is spaced very slightly wrong and does not align perfectly, however, as demonstrated by drfcfighter, even gens are off by several degrees, so I am declaring the rehaut perfect on mine, as gens are even worse. The serial number is centred also, and is an M serial for anyone this information is relevant to. I have no idea what this means to be honest.
Face
The face is awesome. Print looks crisp as hell, fonts look correct and right size, no blemishes or anything, orange appears to be correct shade, nice and bright, markers are all correctly sized and lume is applied very well. Obviously, as we all know, the seconds hand is an issue. On the 21J Milgausses, it is a problem because it's heavier and is very jerky. I have an ETA 2836, so it's smooth as silk, or at least, eight silks a second.
P) But seriously, it moves flawlessly, exactly like gen. Visually though, like every replica Milgauss I have ever seen, not only is it not quite sharp enough in the corners (L's instead of Z's I like to say) but I've seen pics of the gen where the hand appears to be slightly bevelled, the hand on the replica is flat. Not sure if this goes for the hour and minute hands too, but all the hands are flat. Still, this is the replica's only obvious tell, in photo's it is very obvious, (04/02/2011 Addition)
The replica Milgauss, as we know, has an incorrect seconds hand. I previously stated this was only majorly noticeable in pictures, I totally take this back, the difference in real life is actually very prominent, easily visible from the naked eye at a reasonable viewing distance. The problem is not only is the genuine hand noticeably sharper but it's also much better finished at the edges (As though it's been painted all over and the rep has only been painted top side) and it's very nicely bevelled as well so it has great depth. The seconds hand is a huge problem on our reps, it is definitely the wrong shape and nowhere near as sharp and catching as the gen, which shines brightly under light.
Another totally new flaw I noticed is the printing on the dial. As I said before, the dial printing on the replica is sharp and clear and I stand by this. What I did not realise and what cannot be seen in photo's of the gen Milgauss is that the actual orange dial text 'Milgauss' is actually bevelled and glossy like the seconds hand! That caught me by surprise, I think I might be the first person to be reporting this difference as I've never seen it shown in pictures nor mentioned on a forum. It is not a killer detail, it is very minor, but it means that even if you bought yourself a gen seconds hand, your rep would still be distinguishable to the naked eye to somebody who knew exactly what to look for. I still stand by my claim with a gen seconds hand you could fool AD's though.
(12/03/2011 Addition)
Thanks to shaunc, I now have a great photo of a gen Milgauss demonstrating the above flaws of the seconds hand and dial printing for the MILGAUSS text. Please note in the below image how the seconds hand is perfectly painted, glossy finished and 3D bevelled, whereas in my pictures of the replica (For example the one above) it is obvious the seconds hand is perfectly flat, the Milgauss lettering is not as raised, and though it does not show up in pictures, rather than being dipped, the seconds hand has been painted top and bottom so the edges display a very subtle, only noticeable in sunlight grey shine on the edges.
See comments just above images, this is a genuine Milgauss, not a replica.
The final additional flaw I noticed was that under light, it appears the metal edges of the hour markers are very slightly thicker, as they exhibit a much nicer shine than the replica. This could possibly have just been the type of light used in the AD, but it certainly seemed that way to me. I still cannot see a difference in pictures though, if this is even a flaw, it is a VERY minor one.
Apart from that everything else seems very very accurate, I am not aware of any flaws other than those listed here. I will obviously add more as I am made aware of them. I still think that if you were to fix the seconds hand and you had the aligned rehaut, that you have a near perfect super replica, but not so perfect as that someone who knew EXACTLY what to look for could not spot the difference.
(04/02/2011 Addition)
Straight on front shot. I actually found this surprisingly difficult haha!
Speaking of lume,
Lume
It's... I'm not sure actually. It's bright but it seems to fade really quickly. I'm talking like, within the hour after a day in the sun it's totally gone. Within ten minutes of a quick charge under an LED flashlight or holding up to a globe. Eventually will probably get relumed. Any trusted dealers here who do relume and service/regulate/waterproof?
I'm really sorry, as is evident from all my other photo's, I am not a photographer, just someone with access to a professional DSLR. This is most realised by the fact I could not locate the setting to keep the shutter from staying open way too long on lume shots, and this hilarious photo was the best I could do. So instead, I'll link one off Google, as mine looks exactly the same level of brightness and uniformity.
Please note this is a bit of a blurry photo, the edges are very sharp on the actual item.
Movement
I have no idea, I haven't opened the caseback (Which, by the way, is completely perfect) and have no plans to. I wound it once, 40 turns when I got it, and I haven't wound it since and it's still going. It's six seconds a day fast, which is on the top end of COSC regulations (-4s/d or +6s/d) but after a service that number should go way down to some serious awesome. I've seen Milgausses from Lay coming from factory with +0s/d or +1s/d. The good thing about it being fast instead of slow is it's super easy to correct it. Every morning I just unscrew the crown and pop it out one notch for six seconds, pop it back in and screw the crown back in, and it's accurate to atomic again. Don't have to "set it" as such, at all.
This is the caseback. Cannot fault this at all, clear lettering, brushed and polished in the right places... nothing to say really. Guess it didn't come with a hologram sticker, maybe it should have? I'd have taken it off anyway if it did.
This is a stock photo of the movement from Puretime's listing for this model, as I have not opened the caseback on mine.
And again...
Wrapping up, things to look out for on all Milgausses...
Well, that's about all I can think of to say. That's my in depth review of all the points I could think of about the black face Milgauss, which in my opinion is the nicest model, and it's also the most accurate to genuine. All Milgausses share the common seconds hand fault, and in the past the misaligned rehaut, though lately this is being fixed. If you are considering the Glace Verte model, then you will also need to note that the orange lume on the markers at 3, 6 and 9 is pretty bad. It does light up blue like gen but in daylight, it looks very dodgy and dark. The same goes for the white model, the lume on them is awful, it looks wrong.
(08/02/2011 Addition) acg2010 informed me via a reply on this thread that he personally tried on a white Milgauss and can subjectively confirm that the gens too can have slightly rough lume. I still believe the reps are at a stage where they are way off but it is nice to know that Rolex have not perfected the orange lume themselves, so if you're considering a relume or replica's improve in the future, there is a margin of error allowed.
Here are two pictures for an idea:
A genuine white face Milgauss with very bright, clean lume.
A replica white face Milgauss with may I say it, ugly, dirty looking lume. This has been getting a little bit better but it has a long way to go. If you are considering this model, do yourself a favour and contact one of our trusted dealers who relume to see if you can get this corrected.
Another issue you face with the Glace Verte and not the white is the really bad crystal. I have seen in the past that these GV Milgausses had semi decent looking appearance by way of AR tinting the crystal somehow, as demonstrated below by a member here, levelmanroger.
levelmanroger's old replica Milgauss. Note how the edge appears dark green and with depth.
However this is no match for the gen which has an actual proper green crystal.
Note the green is much clearer and brighter and is very obviously a crystal effect.
Though it is much better than current generation rings which ditch whatever levelmanroger's had in favour of a horrible silicon ring under the crystal which is green, and really horrible green AR coating.
Note that unlike this one which is obviously green AR, the genuine article has no green AR coating and does not appear bright green in the middle, only very slightly, as if looking through thick glass. This photo is actually fairly forgiving, on an angle that catches light, it is very very sickly green AR.
Those are the main flaws that you need to be aware of for the GV and white Milgausses that make them less accurate than the black Milgauss. Also note that the edge of the dial has orange numbers on the GV and white face models, but on the black models, there instead an accent of orange at each hour marker, and no numerals. A lot of the cheap Milgauss fakes have the numbers on the black Milgausses, this is wrong. I prefer the clean minimalist look so I actually like that Rolex opted not to include numerals. In the future, I hope that a Milgauss comes out with an updated corrected second hand but this is admittedly unlikely. It's very close, just it's the one thing keeping this rep from being what I would call a super rep. If they fixed the hand, and the orange lume on the white, in my opinion the black and white Milgausses would both be super reps. The GV will probably never be close to gen because the crystal is too difficult for the rep factories to replicate properly. And of course, there is no etched crystal coronet in any of them. On the GV this is correct to gen as the gen GV is the only Rolex currently made with no coronet etching. On the other two, it is a very slight flaw that could in time be rectified, but even without it these still have super rep potential with some minor fixes. If you love the Milgauss as I do, lobby your local rep dealer to push the factories to make this a super rep with promises of skyrocketing profits! That's my two cents! But I digress...
Also, you may be wondering which movement to get. In my opinion, the obvious choice is the Asian ETA-2836, the one I got. It features the same 8 beat per second automatic as the gen, and is cheaper than the Swiss ETA-2836 because some people here feel it is somehow less good at keeping time or less reliable. I disagree. Of course the $50 extra Swiss version is a better movement, the issue is, it's too hard to know if you're even gonna get one. Even the dealers can't tell the difference now, the Asian ETA is that bloody good. They even take some gen parts, and when you buy one, you know what you are getting, you know it will be a new movement. With the Swiss, if you even get one, it will likely be an old or refurbished unit. I'd rather have a new Asian than an old repaired Swiss. With that in mind, if you want your watch to last, I recommend it be serviced ASAP. These movements are not assembled in ultra high cleanliness laboratories, they often can have tiny bits of grit, dirt, or even in some cases hair! Get it serviced and cleaned and it should last you many, many years, decades even if you take good care of it. The bonus for this is you can get it regulated to keep amazing time as well, and waterproofed as you cannot trust factory waterproofing, they do it but they don't really test it so for all you know they missed a seal or what have you.
If you really wanna save some money you can opt for the lesser quality 21J movements. These are not as high beat and do not cope with the seconds hand as well, they are less smooth and in some cases extremely jerky, be wary. Also, many of the 21J models you can get for cheap suffer from some horrible inconsistencies with what I've listed above. The numbers and orange hands from the white and GV mixed in with the black face to create an ugly fantasy Milgauss springs to mind, this is a VERY OBVIOUS replica if you buy one. These often also have totally wrong, much lower quality casebacks without the convex, brushed and bold black lettering quality of the ones I have reviewed. Be wary of the 21J Milgausses is my opinion.
The same can be said for the supposed "Best Edition A3131" movement, which is a retarded leper in sheep's clothing, to coin a phrase. This is just an Asian ETA-2836, with a dodgy fake balance bridge mod, and coloured to look like a genuine Rolex Calibre 3131 movement, as found in real Milgausses and functioning as a faraday cage with an anti-magnetic parachrom blu hairspring. Obviously the fake Asian 3131 will NOT be a Faraday Cage so don't go chucking this thing at an MRI machine... although don't do that with a gen either cause they're only rated to 1000 gauss, an MRI would be much higher. These fake movements are garbage, I almost bought one, but quickly learnt not to. They are harder to get serviced, have dodgy added cosmetic mods that could bother functionality (Fake balance bridge) and do not look ANYTHING like the real Rolex movement.
A fake Asian Calibre 3131 from Puretime's listing.
A genuine Swiss Rolex Calibre 3131 from the old CERN Milgauss, a beautiful precursor to the current Milgauss models.
A little bit of history for you there, chucked in for free! This is a CERN Milgauss, made specifically for CERN employees, it can be identified by the completely lume free dial. Look at those stealth black markers and brushed face, mmmm! No replica of this exists. There is a cheap replica floating around that looks roughly similar but it is horrible, I do not recommend it. Face is wrong, size is wrong, everything is wrong.
Do not fool yourself, you may be buying a replica to look like a gen but buying this movement is meaningless, anyone who opens the caseback will immediately notice the difference, gold ETA or nickel fake Cal.3131, these movements are dodgy at best and serve no purpose but to cheat you out of $50.
An additional note on the super cheapies... (17/03/2011 Addition)
jrodshibuya posted an informative video of one of the super cheap Canal St. quality fakes of a Milgauss GV which I think is a useful addition to this thread, only insofar as to illustrate why these are replica's and not fakes. Please note a multitude of flaws much worse than the ones mentioned above on proper quality ETA movement replicas:
1. The case size and shape is wrong. Bezel is too big, rehaut is too deep and wokky.
2. As a result of the case size being wrong, the dial is also wrong shape. Thus, printing is too big and close together, markers are too close together, everything is wrong as a result of the entire shape of the watch being off.
3. The seconds hand is slow and jittery, very obviously an A21J movement or worse. These movements struggle to handle the weight of the lightning hand.
4. Lume looks way too bright and... dunno, looks like it might not even be lume, could just be coloured.
5. Crown isn't refined enough.
6. This isn't visible in the video but I happen to have seen this level of fake before so I know this one, the caseback is totally wrong. No nice printed black text (See my photo of caseback), not convex enough, no brushed finish, it seems to have a caseback more similar to models like Day Dates and Datejusts. Very wrong.
Also, one of the commenters mentions that the end links are brushed on the outside? It was a little vague but if he is referring to the edges of the end links being brushed on the gen, he is wrong. The Milgauss gen AND rep AND Canal St. fake all have polished centres, brushed outers and then the edges of the outer links are polished. Yet another person displaying ignorance to actual gen specifications.
Review Ratings
Packaging: 8/10.
Watch itself was packaged well with very thick padding, still running when I got it and not a mark on it that wasn’t there before it got shipped, but some more packing in the box to keep the watch still in transit would have been better. The well packaged watch would have been moving around a fair bit within the box.
Again, sorry, neglected pics.
Quality Control: 7/10
There was a dent on the clasp of course but it’s very minor, Puretime showed a picture and I just didn’t notice (Although they didn’t point it out either) and the inside of the clasp was very dirty. Clasp could have been a lot better. The rest of the watch was immaculate and the watch runs well. I have NOT tested water resistance because quite frankly I’m afraid to, I don’t trust the factory and I really doubt Angus actually bothered to water test it after going through two previous watches, but I have nothing to indicate it isn’t water resistant. Haha. Sorry.
Bracelet & Clasp: 10/10
“10/10, what a moron! He was just whinging about how shitty the clasp was, what a biased asshole!†AHH, SLOW DOWN READER BEFORE YOU HURL SUCH HORRID ABUSE AT ME! The clasp was dirty and needs to be oiled, which is a quality control issue. The actual function of the clasp is perfect, the engraving is super sharp, once clean, I am sure it will perform perfectly. It clicks and unclicks solidly, everything fits perfectly, the end links are perfectly flush and while difficult to use right now, the comfort link is really really bloody useful, what a great feature. Thanks Rolex! (I have no idea if they invented it but I’m thanking them for directly implementing it on this watch anyway.)
Case & Crown: 10/10
Zero complaints, cannot tell the difference from a gen. Highly polished, not a mark on them. Really beautiful, stylish watch in person. I was nervous it might look tacky with the orange accents but honestly, it’s beautiful, I love it. I would be content if I never wore another watch, although the replica addiction is calling me strongly. What I’ve done to have the crown face up, and I can’t imagine that this would cause any problems but again, please chime in if it does, is just very slightly unscrew the crown a quarter of a turn so the crown faces up like gen.
Face: 9/10
Clear and sharp, no crap anywhere in there, lume is well applied to the markers and hands, very slightly goes onto the chrome edge of the markers at but it’s SO slight. Lume is okay as mentioned, rehaut is correct but off by a degree or two as mentioned. When the engraving catches the sun occasionally, it looks as though it’s dead on unless you're really close up examining. The only really visible issue at all is the seconds hand being not as sharp and angular in the edges of the lightning bolts which is a known fault to all Milgausses, and it’s also flat, whereas the genuine seconds hand from pictures I have seen appears to be beveled. This is definitely the only part of the watch that would make me anything but 100% confident to walk into an AD with it (Please don’t walk into an AD with it) because it is noticeable if you are looking. If, on the other hand, you are not looking, you will not notice, the hand is still very good and you need to know beforehand what the Milgauss seconds hand is supposed to look like to go “Oh yeah that’s a bit wrong.â€
Also, I’m gonna lump the crystal into this section as well. It’s immaculate. No crown etched at the bottom but that doesn’t surprise me. I’m one of those people who can see the crown on a gen but some people I know don’t even notice it.
Movement: ?/10
I don’t think it’s fair to assign this watch a rating on the movement because I haven’t popped the caseback, I know very little about the actual functionality of movements and I haven’t serviced or regulated it, but it keeps +6s/d. Super easy to set it once a day as I mentioned. This watch was $188 from Puretime.
Conclusion: 9/10
There were issues, don’t get me wrong. A tiny dent in the clasp, the clasp is dirty on the inside and needs oiling, the rehaut is a couple millimeters off, and of course the seconds hand and missing coronet engraving on the crystal. However, save for the seconds hand, these are all very minor faults that either can be fixed or are not noticeable. This is a FANTASTIC rep. Pictures do not do it justice, it just looks so great in real life and on my wrist, I am really supremely happy with it, I can say with 100% confidence that I have a future in this game, and for Replica Watch Info’s absolutely ASTOUNDING friendly, helpful community, and wealth of knowledge, a VIP membership would have been purchased had it not been gifted to me for my services to the community, and again, thank you so much for that honour. Before RWI, I had absolutely no idea how amazing these replica’s could be, I was one of many who just assumed fake Rolexes and the like were cheap, chrome plated, battery powered, unscrupulous garbage. Ohhh how wrong I was. I genuinely believe that I could walk into a jeweler in Adelaide and buy a watch for $208 as this one cost me shipped and it would be absolute garbage compared to this replica. Hell, I reckon I could spend over $1000 and not get a watch this good. It has an absolutely stunning design, it is modern and stylish at the same time, with just the right amount of striking accents. It has a high beat auto movement which is great, a great stainless steel brushed and polished body and bracelet with a great clasp and comfort link, I would suggest anyone who is considering a watch and/or reading this to at least donate to RWI, this community, for me, turned a curious inkling into replica watches into a full time hobby, this forum has given me so much information that I bought with complete confidence and I am now wearing a watch that I hope I will have with me for as many years as possible. If it lasts that long (And of course if I last that long
), I’ll still be wearing it in 50 years probably, it is just sensational. And quite frankly, a VIP contribution is pocket change when you factor in the cost you can save by research (If not for this forum I would have been either scammed, or had paid like over $100 more for the same watch but with the fake Rolex Cal. 3135 movement)Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope it wasn’t too long, I hope you enjoyed it and if you’re considering purchasing a replica Milgauss, I hope it helped you to make an informed decision. I genuinely enjoyed writing it and I really hope that it can help somebody as much as other people’s posts and reviews on this watch have helped me to get to this stage. I am sure corrections or additions can be made, please give me feedback, please comment, by all means please ask me questions, and I know some of the older members frown on this and since they’ll probably be reading, I apologise in advance, but if you really liked it, please show support by commenting or repping the post. Now, I think it’s time for a drink!
Adios, see you next purchase!
-AHX, The Milgauss Man.
