[Project diary with pics] Franken Rolex Submariner 5513

[pompompurin]

Theme of this build:
A RSC-serviced/restored vintage Rolex 5513 Submariner

Outcome I would like to achieve: :bounce:

So far I have bought:
- Genuine Rolex 5513 "SWISS" Service Dial with Superluminova lume
- ETA 2824-2 modified to low-beat with H4 pinions and date function removed

Now I still need to buy:
- ETA 2824-2/2836-2 stem
- A 5513 case set with a compatible crown/stem/tube height for the 2824-2. I much prefer a case with gen crown height
- [Optional depending on which case set I use] T19 plexi crystal
- [Optional depending on which case set I use] Clarks gen-spec 5512/5513 bezel assembly
- [Optional depending on which case set I use] Athaya 702 crown + tube
- TC V7 hands set for 16610 (the V7 has the correct capped pinion shape on the seconds hand - just like the gen service hands)
- Genuine Rolex 5512/5513 service bezel with superluminova pearl
- 93150 bracelet

The gen service dial is so pretty; the white gold indices sparkle and the lume is bright. Even though a Rolex service dial is never period original, I still have a thing for service dials because it restores a NOS (new old stock) look into the watch and I also value its functional lume.

I will start sourcing for more parts and use this thread as a diary entry for sharing

 

[R2L]

I like the look you are going for! A nicely looked after vintage sub or a carefully serviced one is very appealing, IMO, compared to some of the over-aged ones that you see on the forum. I'm going for a similar look on an MBW 1680.
Best of luck and I look forward to future updates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheSociety]

I highly recommend a gen spec 1:1 case so that if you decide to go with gen movement later you have that option (why wouldn't you in a build this good?!)

Like the dial you have, a gen movement will always hold value.


It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

 

[R2L]

I highly recommend a gen spec 1:1 case so that if you decide to go with gen movement later you have that option (why wouldn't you in a build this good?!)

Like the dial you have, a gen movement will always hold value.


It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

I completely agree! Unfortunately, as nice as the MBW cases are, they do not take gen dials without modification (which is a pain). Best of luck with your build.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[silentflight]

Helenrou case takes 2824.

However, correct stem height cases are made for 2836.

 

[pompompurin]

Helenrou case takes 2824.

However, correct stem height cases are made for 2836.

Thank you for chiming in! Yes Helenarou is priority on my list, but the poor lug shapes and stubby crownguards turns me off - but it can be used for passing the build off as a polished RSC-serviced 5513. The alternative is a cartel 21j case because the 2813 movement cavity is compatible with a 2824-2 movement.

I believe it is the other way round. 2824-2 for gen crown height (e.g. 2824-2 can be used in yuki 5513 case, phong 5513 case, and helenarou 5513 case - all of these cases can also use 1530/1520 gen movements). Whereas Cartel/MBK 5513 with 2836-2 movements all have lower crown height from pictures. I have compared photos and I have setup another thread in the vintage section that asks this similar question.

Gen 5513 crown height

Cartel 21j (2813 movement, compatible with 2824-2 but it still has the wrong crown height)

Cartel/JFK 2836-2

And there is even a thread that compares a Jdog modded 1680 (2836-2) to a gen 1680. Notice how the gen 1680 has a higher crown (right):

https://forum.replica-watch.info/th...-side-with-my-newly-acquired-mbw-1680.297332/

 

[pompompurin]

I like the look you are going for! A nicely looked after vintage sub or a carefully serviced one is very appealing, IMO, compared to some of the over-aged ones that you see on the forum. I'm going for a similar look on an MBW 1680.
Best of luck and I look forward to future updates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! And I agree that a non-aged clean build can be quite appealing instead of the usual aged looks. Also good luck to your search for a MBW 1680.. those are rare!

I have considered using the MBW 5513 case, but unfortunately the crown height isn't correct and that would annoy me. But I never knew that MBW cases cannot take gen dials? Is it because of the narrow rehaut diameter?

Anyhow I would keep this thread regularly updated once I can start building the watch.

I completely agree! Unfortunately, as nice as the MBW cases are, they do not take gen dials without modification (which is a pain). Best of luck with your build.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pompompurin]

I highly recommend a gen spec 1:1 case so that if you decide to go with gen movement later you have that option (why wouldn't you in a build this good?!)

Like the dial you have, a gen movement will always hold value.


It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

The other day, I was reading your thread about your vintage collection and that blew my mind away. The attention to detail and time spent on researching and sourcing parts must have vastly expanded your knowledge of vintage Rolex. Those crazy builds

Unfortunately because I am on a fixed budget, I can't go all the way in and get a yuki/phong case with gen 1030 movement. But I am also dreaded from removing the gen dial feet - I might save this 2824-2 movement for another build and source a movement that has a ligne size that is smaller than the gen dial's dial feet

 

[Princewilliam]

Subscribed [emoji1360]


Sent from the RWI mobile app

 

[R2L]

The gen dials are 26.5mm in diameter, while the MBW is 26.0. So you need to do one of two things: enlarge the dial seat, which requires removing 0.5mm of case metal, or sand down the dial by that amount. However, when you do that you also decrease the size of the minute markers around the outside of the dial. This means that when you look at the installed dial through the plexi, the markers are too short and don't look like the gen. And you've also destroyed an expensive gen dial, as you cannot now mount it into a gen-spec case. And, of course, your stem height is off as well.
So even though it is the more expensive route to take, @TheSociety's advice above is the better way to go, especially if you want to hang on to the watch for a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tripdog]

The alternative is a cartel 21j case because the 2813 movement cavity is compatible with a 2824-2 movement.

This is not correct. The ETA 2824 has a stem height of 1.8 mm, the DG2813 has a stem height of 2.5 mm, too big a difference for them to be both used in the same case. An ETA 2836 has a stem height of 2.25 mm, close enough to the DG for it to be used in the same case.
The stem height is the distance between the back of the dial and the centre of the stem, the smaller the number, the higher the crown will be. A 1.8 mm stem height will put the crown higher in the case (closer to the dial) than a 2.5 mm stem height.

 

[magoohkg]

Looking forward to the end result.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pompompurin]

This is not correct. The ETA 2824 has a stem height of 1.8 mm, the DG2813 has a stem height of 2.5 mm, too big a difference for them to be both used in the same case. An ETA 2836 has a stem height of 2.25 mm, close enough to the DG for it to be used in the same case.
The stem height is the distance between the back of the dial and the centre of the stem, the smaller the number, the higher the crown will be. A 1.8 mm stem height will put the crown higher in the case (closer to the dial) than a 2.5 mm stem height.

That is what I used to think, until I read this over at HF and this finding was confirmed in various other build threads:

It may depend on the case but, in my experience those cartel sub case came with the DG movement takes ETA2824 straightforwardly:

http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=35065

 

[pompompurin]

The gen dials are 26.5mm in diameter, while the MBW is 26.0. So you need to do one of two things: enlarge the dial seat, which requires removing 0.5mm of case metal, or sand down the dial by that amount. However, when you do that you also decrease the size of the minute markers around the outside of the dial. This means that when you look at the installed dial through the plexi, the markers are too short and don't look like the gen. And you've also destroyed an expensive gen dial, as you cannot now mount it into a gen-spec case. And, of course, your stem height is off as well.
So even though it is the more expensive route to take, @TheSociety's advice above is the better way to go, especially if you want to hang on to the watch for a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you think it is possible to sand down the dial seat using sand paper? Would sanding down the dial seat take too long?

I ask because I will similarly need to enlarge the rehaut diameter in my other datejust build. I realised that classic datejust rep cases come in varying rehaut diameters

 

[R2L]

Do you think it is possible to sand down the dial seat using sand paper? Would sanding down the dial seat take too long?

I ask because I will similarly need to enlarge the rehaut diameter in my other datejust build. I realised that classic datejust rep cases come in varying rehaut diameters

You could try, but it will take you a while. Remember, the case is stainless steel and takes a lot of effort to make changes to it. The other thing to keep in mind is that you would need to remove the same amount of metal evenly around the whole dial seat. Otherwise your dial won't sit evenly.
If you are not used to working with stainless steel, you may ask one of the modders to do this for you. It may be worth your time, and a little bit of funds to have it done right the first time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Saby]

@godkiller I absolutely love the look you're going for and will stay tuned for more pics and updates.
And regarding the genspec build, eventhough it's expensive compared to what you can get from TDs, is absolutely worth it.
Think of it like this, the more you lose badufat, harder it become.
Bugatti Veyron uses much more bhp from going to 225mph to 250mph that from 0-60mph.
Athletes takes 6months of training to sprint from 12sec to 10 sec. But to shave off 0.5 sec they train for years.
It's the same with watches, if you want 90% accuracy you can do it cheap, but if you want more than 99% it's gonna cose you morethan what 0-90% costs. Cheers brother and best of luck.

I have a tc v7 extreme 16610ln and a @TheSociety build superfranken 6538, I know the difference bro, trust me.

 

[pompompurin]

You could try, but it will take you a while. Remember, the case is stainless steel and takes a lot of effort to make changes to it. The other thing to keep in mind is that you would need to remove the same amount of metal evenly around the whole dial seat. Otherwise your dial won't sit evenly.
If you are not used to working with stainless steel, you may ask one of the modders to do this for you. It may be worth your time, and a little bit of funds to have it done right the first time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Something is itching and telling me to go grab my drill with drill stand and MacGyver a 26mm diameter sanding wheel haha
If I go through that route with my other project, I will be sure to upload a lot of pics for your entertainment

I am now likely leaning towards a helenarou 5513 case if they can sell the mid case only and without the bezel. Those helenarou 5513 bezels look way too small and non gen-spec unfortunately.

 

[tripdog]

That is what I used to think, until I read this over at HF and this finding was confirmed in various other build threads:



http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=35065

There was an intermediary Cartel sub case, just after the V1. I don't think anybody else noticed it and it didn't last for very long. I worked on a couple, the crown was positioned higher on the case - very close to gen. Then they changed it for some reason. . . . The poster in that linked thread may have had one of those earlier intermediary sub cases, but the newer versions are not the same.
You can't re-interpret facts. For a stem, there is a huge difference between 1.8 and 2.25 mm, you may get the movement to fit in and be able to screw down the crown, but the stem will soon snap and the movements' keyless works may well be damaged with time.

 

[pompompurin]

@godkiller I absolutely love the look you're going for and will stay tuned for more pics and updates.
And regarding the genspec build, eventhough it's expensive compared to what you can get from TDs, is absolutely worth it.
Think of it like this, the more you lose badufat, harder it become.
Bugatti Veyron uses much more bhp from going to 225mph to 250mph that from 0-60mph.
Athletes takes 6months of training to sprint from 12sec to 10 sec. But to shave off 0.5 sec they train for years.
It's the same with watches, if you want 90% accuracy you can do it cheap, but if you want more than 99% it's gonna cose you morethan what 0-90% costs. Cheers brother and best of luck.

I have a tc v7 extreme 16610ln and a @TheSociety build superfranken 6538, I know the difference bro, trust me.

Excellent analogies! Just the motivation I need as well haha
I figured that because I have a gen service dial.. I hope to at least achieve a gen crown height (with an affordable case) because that is the most inexcusable part of a rep watch. Having the wrong case shape can be resolved by reshaping and having stubby crownguards can be explained as overpolishing like some gen vintage reps... but having the wrong crown height to me is inexcusable (and unrepairable without extensive modding that is beyond me). And also, having the wrong crown height is just too obvious for my OCD in this are unfortunately.

So a good compromise to me would be a helenarou case because it is the cheapest case set with the correct crown height. Although it has the stubby crownguards, some RSC-serviced watches are polished to hell anyways

 

[TheSociety]

@godkiller I absolutely love the look you're going for and will stay tuned for more pics and updates.
And regarding the genspec build, eventhough it's expensive compared to what you can get from TDs, is absolutely worth it.
Think of it like this, the more you lose badufat, harder it become.
Bugatti Veyron uses much more bhp from going to 225mph to 250mph that from 0-60mph.
Athletes takes 6months of training to sprint from 12sec to 10 sec. But to shave off 0.5 sec they train for years.
It's the same with watches, if you want 90% accuracy you can do it cheap, but if you want more than 99% it's gonna cose you morethan what 0-90% costs. Cheers brother and best of luck.

I have a tc v7 extreme 16610ln and a @TheSociety build superfranken 6538, I know the difference bro, trust me.

This might be the best analogy I've ever read bro [emoji15]


It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread