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Rolex Explorer II-2 (216570) Project

Darkstar74

Horology Curious
12/10/21
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Re-posted from the new members area into the Rolex Sub Forum for relevance.

First of all hello from Oxford, United Kingdom.
I joined because I was impressed with the technical knowledge here, in a world of fakes frankly you could think that no one cares...but they do and that is nice to know.
So many people say its a world full of sharks and criminals and fakery is bad...but I've seen some places where people actually care about what they do, and provide a good product and a decent service and if you want a Rolex but only have $400 then what are going to do?
I wonder if you could help with quite an advanced project I have running which is ...a bit odd but bear with me it will be a spectacular success or failure depending on what follows here...its long, so get a drink and sit down...

Years ago I was lucky enough to be awarded a Military Rolex Explorer II (216570) Black Dial with Zap# and Specialist Badge back plus engraving, I wore it for a few weeks until a friend of mine died. He had one too, There were 30 made for our detachment, his wife to be...she had a few bills to pay so she sold it, I remember it being frowned upon at the time. But she really had no choice, She was going to be homeless and needed the money for more important things than pride and honour, and a shiny watch. it was sold at Sotheby’s for ridiculous money…something like £25k.
10 years has gone past since then and now one has just sold at £44k
So I put mine away, I wasn’t going to strutt about with that on my wrist, its bloody ridiculous. But I missed it and made a stupid decision because I could not afford a real one, I went to Hong Kong, and yes you have guessed it,?
I came back with a ‘good quality’ fake. By that I mean its made of 216/904L Surgical steel, has mineral glass, is waterproof and kept decent time with a low beat 5 gradiations/sec primitive Myota pattern auto movement (GMT hand is at the bottom, and the hour hand does not set independently and directly linked to the minute hand unlike the Gen. the GMT hand sets at POS-1 if you thumb wind the watch backwards, forwards sets the date).
Here's the real reason I need advice, I thought this watch was basically indestructible, had amazing scratch resistance and kept good time so I was happy with it for a very long time-years went past.
Then even more stupidly a couple of years back I dug some house foundations by hand wearing it, hours of pick-axe work and this good quality not a Rolex had a few issues after that, I'm entirely to blame.
Top cardinal marker triangle went AWOL, floats around the face getting in the way and snarling up the hands.
Face not fixed +/- up to 90 degrees depending on how you rattle it and twitches on setting like a buckled wheel so is very loose inside the watch no interference fit or spacer grip to help that. so its in need of some engineering now.

Problem is I have grown to love it it has a few stories to tell-its now 10 years old and had until that point been my surrogate to the one never to be worn again.
More stupidity follows…obviously I don’t like the fact its actually fake and broken, so took it upon myself to try to build in some quality so its..slowly…erm...less fake.
I’ve bought a swiss ETA 2893-2 GMT Elabore-CDG-DATE for the 42MM Oyster case.
I also have a new face from a guy in the US who managed to write off his Explorer II he dived with the crown at POS-3 and gave it a lovely salty bath so there is minor water damage to the original Rolex face which I do not mind at all it it clean up good, if not I’m not really bothered by it.
And my 24 hour bezel is worn so I got the bezel from his too. Gen bezels have decent black anodized markers, the fake ones flake off after five years or so.
The hour marker hand is wrong the Gen is stumpier, so I bought the Gen 216570 Handset in the hope they can be fitted to the 2893-2 ETA stack.

Am I mad or stupid or both? Would a watchmaker be able to fettle this bag of quality junk back to life do you think...and I guess most importantly have a missed anything that would make it easier for a decent watch maker to have a good stab at this and a reasonable chance of success?

Do not reply "if you want a real one buy a real one.." I already know that and I'm more than a grand in and its fun...having a gen Explorer II to go with the other one now is kind of besides the point, now I'm so far down this track. Basically I want my old fake to be a higher quality fake with some gen parts, and a swiss movement. I'm seeing a watch maker on Thursday but wondered if you had any advice I could act on prior to that?
 

p0pperini

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Welcome to RWI. Thanks for the interesting story.

If your watchmaker is decent, and rep friendly, then he'll probably be in the best position to advise.

But in the meantime, there's never been a more fitting time to use this banner:

:ttiwwop:

It would be nice to see the current state of the rep and the gen!

Signing up to clickpix.org and using the "Upload Images" button at the top right of the forum text entry field is the easiest way.
 

tripdog

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So I put mine away, I wasn’t going to strutt about with that on my wrist, its bloody ridiculous. But I missed it and made a stupid decision because I could not afford a real one, I went to Hong Kong, and yes you have guessed it,?


This doesn't make sense. You still have your 'military Explorer' as you put it away, but you made a stupid decision and you missed it so you purchased a fake in HK.

You should have given this more thought before posting.
 
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p0pperini

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You still have your 'military Explorer' as you put it away, but you made a stupid decision and you missed it so you purchased a fake in HK.
He misses it because he's put it away. Maybe he forgot where he put it. Or he put it somewhere really far away.

Once he's posted the pics, it'll all be perfectly clear.
 

KJ2020

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I wouldn't attempt to salvage a low quality 10 year old rep with gen parts, or at all for that matter.

There ane many better base watches available now that would be much better choices. There are even some 216570 reps now that have "true clone" 3187 movements that will take gen hands. A 2893 will not.

Cut your losses on the junker clunker, sell the 2893 if you need to and start over. You may find you're OK with a new rep OOTB. There are plenty of threads here on the 216570's.

I have less than $600 invested in both these reps combined

16086803215330.jpg



16077097930450.jpg
 
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Darkstar74

Horology Curious
12/10/21
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I get that it is hard to miss something you have, but I thought i'd made it clear that my real ExII-2 has garnered considerable value to the point that it is a risk (I feel it and do not feel comfortable wearing it) It is now not ideal as a daily wear, and as I don't have a spare £10k hanging for a non special edition model about which I care less if it gets scratched or whatever, I went and bought a replica which is now in the care of a watchmaker, along with the gen dial, hands, bezel and ETA2893-2. Yes I will send pics and thank you for your advice and comments. I guess we will see what transpires even if I have to end up buying the case, the glass and the strap!!
 

p0pperini

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Yeah Darkstar74 - as KJ2020 suggested, it seems completely pointless trying to salvage that old rep. You'd be much better off just buying a new rep - the quality has come on in leaps and bounds in recent years.

Your SAS Explorer is brilliant. Love the caseback. And I've never seen an inscription down the side of the case like that. Congratulations on owning a very special watch.
 
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KJ2020

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Bro that SAS Explorer is the bomb. I get why you want to leave it somewhere safe.

But that rep needs to bombed, lol.

For $198 on DHgate you can get a 2813 ICHS (who can tell with black hand roots)

https://www.dhgate.com/product/vinta...prod|230633356

jql2S8.jpg


For about $425 you can get a true clone 3187 CHS
jqlhCR.jpg


Keep your 10 year old rep in the safe next to your SAS if it means that much to you but get a nice new 216570, you won't be sorry!
 
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Darkstar74

Horology Curious
12/10/21
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So if I was to get a decent fake- what is currently the best quality one and who sells it? Does anyone know?
im after correct hand stack, Swiss movement hi-beat 28800bph Waterproof, mineral glass, triplock this is not a 50 buck replacement.
 

Darkstar74

Horology Curious
12/10/21
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Ah I see that now...sorry the pics did not show up on my iphone.
I'd prefer the silver hand model-happy to pay $600 for a really good one. Any recommendations?
 

KJ2020

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Ah I see that now...sorry the pics did not show up on my iphone.
I'd prefer the silver hand model-happy to pay $600 for a really good one. Any recommendations?

You won't get a Swiss movement in any of these reps. There isn't a Swiss equivalent to the rep 3187 other than the gen.

Don't buy an ETA based rep of this model if you want CHS. There is a solid running 2836 ICHS (incorrect handstack) and a 2824 CHS, which is a timebomb movement. You can read more about rep GMT movements in the link below if interested.

GMT Movements Explained

The true clone 3187 reps will not be suitable for switching the movement to a 2893. There are just too many issues to overcome. The 2893 has the GMT hand on the bottom so if you want CHS, that should be a dealbreaker right there. Also the rep and gen 3187 hands will not fit on any ETA movement (without extremely skilled hand hole collar modding that carries high risk). The 2893 also has a different GMT hand hole size of 1.8mm, and 216570 hands are rare for rep or gen.

Of the currently available models, the GMF V4 is your best bet IMO for what you want

https://trustytimewatch.io/index.ph...=1&keyword=216570&inc_subcat=0&page=1&sort=3d

You can use whichever TD you choose, they can all get the same watches from the same factories.
 
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p0pperini

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You can use whichever TD you choose, they can all get the same watches from the same factories.

I tend to recommend JTime (jtime.io) to new buyers, but the price will be the same and the service is similar whoever you choose. You could also try Sead (TD area is Supermirrors, you need to email him), as he's based in the UK and gets drops of stock into the UK regularly.
 

Swiss_goupil

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You won't get a Swiss movement in any of these reps. There isn't a Swiss equivalent to the rep 3187 other than the gen.

Don't buy an ETA based rep of this model if you want CHS. There is a solid running 2836 ICHS (incorrect handstack) and a 2824 CHS, which is a timebomb movement. You can read more about rep GMT movements in the link below if interested.

GMT Movements Explained

The true clone 3187 reps will not be suitable for switching the movement to a 2893. There are just too many issues to overcome. The 2893 has the GMT hand on the bottom so if you want CHS, that should be a dealbreaker right there. Also the rep and gen 3187 hands will not fit on any ETA movement (without extremely skilled hand hole collar modding that carries high risk). The 2893 also has a different GMT hand hole size of 1.8mm, and 216570 hands are rare for rep or gen.

Of the currently available models, the GMF V4 is your best bet IMO for what you want

https://trustytimewatch.io/index.ph...=1&keyword=216570&inc_subcat=0&page=1&sort=3d

You can use whichever TD you choose, they can all get the same watches from the same factories.

That GMF v4 would take gen hands and dial (without chopping feet), wouldn’t it?


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KJ2020

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That GMF v4 would take gen hands and dial (without chopping feet), wouldn’t it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would be a logical assumption bro, but IDK of anyone who has done it.
 

Swiss_goupil

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That would be a logical assumption bro, but IDK of anyone who has done it.

Thank you KJ. I m tempted to follow this route. I have been looking for a nice Polar since May and nothing came up (except the one we discussed in DM but seller decided to sell it locally). Will email the hand vendor you kindly quoted in the other thread and take it from there as I have sourced a gen dial.


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Darkstar74

Horology Curious
12/10/21
12
4
3
Thanks guys for the advice. That V4 does look clean and smart…what a lovely movement too, and the hands are correct looking- normally easy to spot the fake hour hand as the shaft is longer on many fakes.
im going to plough on relying on the skill of a watchmaker to adapt the hands and dial to the ETA2893-2 I think the GMT is .02mm out and will need filling and re tapping, gen dial will need feet trimming.

we’ll see.

I’ll report back with pics as we go along.


one last question in terms of fakes today how large or small is the quality gap now between that Ex11-2 GMFV4 and the real McCoy? I struggle to see a quality difference that justifies the pricing gap. Which makes me think most of it is purely brand demand and corp admin/marketing costs.