126610 from Clean factory

[StreetFighter]

I'm reading, he says it's good. RF's first (and for now only) review is from a novice user, we can't know if it's better or worse (imho)

Very true..

Still, I don't see Clean products for me at the moment.

The way I see it, factories assemble parts sourced from various rep part makers. Some of the rep part makers have really upped their game in just the last 12 months. VSF were assembling good quality parts and these parts will still be getting produced, one or more of the new name factories will be using these good parts. I suspect RF and JVS/VVSF and some of the others too. But until Clean start getting more consistent reviews (bracelets and dials aside which I believe are very good), we will know they are not using the best available parts (read cheaper) and charging top $ for the product?

This and the (very minor nit picky) details with case lugs, cg's and side profiles, GMT cg's on the Subs and Sub lugs on the GMT's, bezel lips on BLNR and no lip on early the Pepsi, things only WIS can spot and get upset about, etc etc.. too much knowledge can be a bad thing here. The other options always seemed to get these details better.

That's just laziness and incompetence though, there's the scandal and impropriety too which has been discussed before so I'm not going there..

Just me thinking out loud, maybe BS.. I'm not preaching.

 

[immortalchef]

I just got my Clean LV today and i'm super happy with most of the watch, the clasp really is great and like it bit better than my VSF LN.

Crystal is just okay. However I did manage to get my hands on VSF crystal so will be sending it to a watch maker to have VSF crystal installed on the Clean Sub

 

[RNVP]

Very true..

Still, I don't see Clean products for me at the moment.

The way I see it, factories assemble parts sourced from various rep part makers. Some of the rep part makers have really upped their game in just the last 12 months. VSF were assembling good quality parts and these parts will still be getting produced, one or more of the new name factories will be using these good parts. I suspect RF and JVS/VVSF and some of the others too. But until Clean start getting more consistent reviews (bracelets and dials aside which I believe are very good), we will know they are not using the best available parts (read cheaper) and charging top $ for the product?

This and the (very minor nit picky) details with case lugs, cg's and side profiles, GMT cg's on the Subs and Sub lugs on the GMT's, bezel lips on BLNR and no lip on early the Pepsi, things only WIS can spot and get upset about, etc etc.. too much knowledge can be a bad thing here. The other options always seemed to get these details better.

That's just laziness and incompetence though, there's the scandal and impropriety too which has been discussed before so I'm not going there..

Just me thinking out loud, maybe BS.. I'm not preaching.

I think this is the best post I've read in this forum (and not only).
Congratulations mate!

Now I keep thinking about what to buy, also given the latest kermit published which puts me in difficulty.

 

[RNVP]

I just got my Clean LV today and i'm super happy with most of the watch, the clasp really is great and like it bit better than my VSF LN.

Crystal is just okay. However I did manage to get my hands on VSF crystal so will be sending it to a watch maker to have VSF crystal installed on the Clean Sub

Great!
Could you please do a review with the differences and the best parts of this CLEAN and the VSF? Thanks

 

[StreetFighter]

Great!
Could you please do a review with the differences and the best parts of this CLEAN and the VSF? Thanks

I can do that for you..

The watch above beats VSF with the: hands, SEL's
A VSF beats has better: case, crystal, bezel operation and a smoother crown and tube marriage.
They both draw or near enough draw on: links and clasp, crown, dial, case back, movement , date wheel, bezel insert, weight, feel, appearance on the wrist.

The important bits above though are the important bits though, you want a smooth not gritty crown and tube marriage just like genuine, and you want a good bezel operation. It's these things that make a watch feel genuine, get these wrong and it will feel like a replica - all the other bits are correct, it used to be the bracelet was the biggest giveaway when handling a replica, they would feel cheap and sharp edged with a crap clasp, not anymore though, you have to look at the other moving parts now.

There will be other opinions of course.

 

[immortalchef]

I can do that for you..

The watch above beats VSF with the: hands, SEL's
A VSF beats has better: case, crystal, bezel operation and a smoother crown and tube marriage.
They both draw or near enough draw on: links and clasp, crown, dial, case back, movement , date wheel, bezel insert, weight, feel, appearance on the wrist.

The important bits above though are the important bits though, you want a smooth not gritty crown and tube marriage just like genuine, and you want a good bezel operation. It's these things that make a watch feel genuine, get these wrong and it will feel like a replica - all the other bits are correct, it used to be the bracelet was the biggest giveaway when handling a replica, they would feel cheap and sharp edged with a crap clasp, not anymore though, you have to look at the other moving parts now.

There will be other opinions of course.

I agree with your assessment! VSF has more pros and is just a different level with what they were able to achieve in a first iteration. Clean has flaws but for most you have to look close. I ordered the first batch of the VSF when it was available and I got unlucky with a subpar bracelet, it even had a faulty glidelock although I'm sure VSF had fixed it in later batches.

 

[RNVP]

I agree with your assessment! VSF has more pros and is just a different level with what they were able to achieve in a first iteration. Clean has flaws but for most you have to look close. I ordered the first batch of the VSF when it was available and I got unlucky with a subpar bracelet, it even had a faulty glidelock although I'm sure VSF had fixed it in later batches.

probably some factories will follow the same path as VSF and improve over time. It remains to be seen if today the defects they have are more or less important than CLEAN (which is a good product but not perfect)

 

[RNVP]

has anyone received CLEAN and can post some pictures?

 

[immortalchef]

So I decided to work on the CLEAN sub tonight and the two things I didn't like were bezel operation and the crystal. When I removed the bezel first thing I realized was how bad the click springs are under the CF bezel. Compare CF springs on left vs VSF springs on the right.

I swapped out the springs for VSF ones and the bezel turning feels perfect and switched it out to a VSF crystal I was able to get. These two changes make the CF an overall great watch

I've only tested it with VSF springs, I can't say for sure but I honestly feel even springs you could find on aliexpress would be better alternative than what CF uses for improved bezel operation. This is what I found that look similar to the construction on VSF - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002446706510.html

 

[tommikeson]

So I decided to work on the CLEAN sub tonight and the two things I didn't like were bezel operation and the crystal. When I removed the bezel first thing I realized was how bad the click springs are under the CF bezel. Compare CF springs on left vs VSF springs on the right.

I swapped out the springs for VSF ones and the bezel turning feels perfect and switched it out to a VSF crystal I was able to get. These two changes make the CF an overall great watch

I've only tested it with VSF springs, I can't say for sure but I honestly feel even springs you could find on aliexpress would be better alternative than what CF uses for improved bezel operation. This is what I found that look similar to the construction on VSF - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002446706510.html

How did you get VSF springs/crystal?

 

[immortalchef]

How did you get VSF springs/crystal?

I have a VSF LN with Gen crystal, the crystal was a left over part from that project and I borrowed the springs from that watch to test to see why CF's bezel wasn't as smooth. Turns out yeah CF just used cheaper springs.

 

[keisuke_z]

I have a VSF LN with Gen crystal, the crystal was a left over part from that project and I borrowed the springs from that watch to test to see why CF's bezel wasn't as smooth. Turns out yeah CF just used cheaper springs.

I wanted to improve the clock on my CF as well and swapped in this set: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002239279763.html

What I found interestingly was that the springs in this set were almost too stiff, so I couldn’t turn the bezel. Tripled checked the hytrel ring to be sure. I ended up keeping the click spring from that set but using the original CF ball/springs and that seemed to balance it out a bit.

 

[StreetFighter]

Not ideal, a top price rep that you have to mod out the box to get it how it should be - with varying results, this one and the CF GMT's have bezel problems.

Looking around, there is not a single watch that I want to buy at the moment. There is no 126610 and no 126710 from any factory worth buying at this point in time, not that I can see. All I see are really great bracelets, dials and some pretty decent movements.

The best option is continue to wait for updates to fix the current ones, wait for new ones or find used ones on M2M sales. imo..

 

[emdeevee]

The VSF is virtually perfect out of the box. At the same level as my TC was when I received that. Glad I got one.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[T&E]

In your opinion which is the best 126610 case? Vsf or clean one?

 

[immortalchef]

In your opinion which is the best 126610 case? Vsf or clean one?

VSF is better case shape, even the edges on vsf feel sharper. Clean is good and I've measured both of mine the lug measurements are the same if that's a priority for you. VSF and Clean will have the same lug width as Gen. I saw that RF had slightly wider lugs

Left is CF, right is VSF

 

[wubsub]

i need your help guys..

just ordered a 126610 bracelet from Clean with the intention of swapping into my VSF. do you think this will solve my SEL recess problems of surpassing slighly the lugs?

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Let me pull out my crystal globe and tslk slme voodoo spells, i will tell you after you receive the bracelet. Btw: you bought only bracelet? So the ARF Bracelet?

 

[immortalchef]

i need your help guys..

just ordered a 126610 bracelet from Clean with the intention of swapping into my VSF. do you think this will solve my SEL recess problems of surpassing slighly the lugs?

I've tried it with both and they both look the same. The Clean bracelet probably won't change very much on SEL, but you'll get a batter clasp. After a week usage the glidelock and clasp is far nicer on the ARF bracelet that Clean is using compared to VSF

VSF + VSF Bracelet

VSF + Clean Bracelet

 

[wubsub]

I've tried it with both and they both look the same. The Clean bracelet probably won't change very much on SEL, but you'll get a batter clasp. After a week usage the glidelock and clasp is far nicer on the ARF bracelet that Clean is using compared to VSF

VSF + VSF Bracelet

VSF + Clean Bracelet

many many thanks for your feedback.

i agree, my LN clasp is not as good as the LV so thats an upgrade on it’s own. i hope i will be lucky with the endlinks or atleast one of them when i fit them. only have bottom sel which look a bit off.