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first super clone RM movement

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    #31
    Originally posted by MasterWatch View Post
    Even if the price is true (which I highly doubt) what would stop a factory like ZF to buy it and take apart the movement and mass produce a clone of the clone.
    It will be much cheaper for them to do that instead of buying a gen and taking it apart.

    I am hopeful that a clone at a reasonable price will be out eventually.
    Totally agree with you, the step is taken, we just need to wait for it.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by MasterWatch View Post
      Even if the price is true (which I highly doubt) what would stop a factory like ZF to buy it and take apart the movement and mass produce a clone of the clone.
      It will be much cheaper for them to do that instead of buying a gen and taking it apart.

      I am hopeful that a clone at a reasonable price will be out eventually.
      Most certinally that will happen eventually but we gotta recall the price noob paid back in the day for the 4130. Considering that its much more easier to understand the slow development on the mass producment. The price is really step only thing we can do is wait for good news. Considering the fact that there are reps for many watches between 5-20k. One of the more known examples i can give is Phongs 1518 and 2499 if i recall correctly is around 20+. so really expensive reps don't shock me anymore im used to it. Gen rm movement obviously doesn't cost that much but probably people who buy it will determine the action factories will take based on the interest on the project and probably fund the cost at the same time. Funding thing is my guess but thats an possibility. I double checked personally many of my contacts and yes those are the price currently for the movement sadly. Who knows but exciting things are ahead of the rep world. Who would have imagined like back in 2015 that we would see 035, 4130, 3120, 324, proper 3135 clones. Considering the way the industry and technology moves anything can happen i guess.
      Last edited by XLR8R; 24-11-21, 17:28.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by XLR8R View Post

        Most certinally that will happen eventually but we gotta recall the price noob paid back in the day for the 4130. Considering that its much more easier to understand the slow development on the mass producment. The price is really step only thing we can do is wait for good news. Considering the fact that there are reps for many watches between 5-20k. One of the more known examples i can give is Phongs 1518 and 2499 if i recall correctly is around 20+. so really expensive reps don't shock me anymore im used to it. Gen rm movement obviously doesn't cost that much but probably people who buy it will determine the action factories will take based on the interest on the project and probably fund the cost at the same time. Funding thing is my guess but thats an possibility. I double checked personally many of my contacts and yes those are the price currently for the movement sadly. Who knows but exciting things are ahead of the rep world. Who would have imagined like back in 2015 that we would see 035, 4130, 3120, 324, proper 3135 clones. Considering the way the industry and technology moves anything can happen i guess.
        unfortunately the 4130 is gone now, but i do find it odd tht certain chinese modders seem to have an endless supply

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          #34
          $30,000 for a rep watch movement. YIPES

          Comment


            #35
            I heard from my dealers that the movement comes in single barrel, grade 2 and grade 5 titanium plate forms, pricing from rmb3800 for the single barrel to rmb11500 for the grade 5 titanium double barrel version. You then have addons like clear rubies/gyro max balance wheel of gen vaucher movements which further bump up the price. Asked about a white NTPT RM061, all said and done, about RMB35k

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              #36
              Originally posted by Tebburaner View Post
              I heard from my dealers that the movement comes in single barrel, grade 2 and grade 5 titanium plate forms, pricing from rmb3800 for the single barrel to rmb11500 for the grade 5 titanium double barrel version. You then have addons like clear rubies/gyro max balance wheel of gen vaucher movements which further bump up the price. Asked about a white NTPT RM061, all said and done, about RMB35k
              If that is true, that would be awesome, since the price is absolutely OK. Makes more sense to have a price like that, produce in higher quantity and I will definitely get one. Any idea when? After cny probably or earlier? Like many others, I'm waiting for years

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Tebburaner View Post
                I heard from my dealers that the movement comes in single barrel, grade 2 and grade 5 titanium plate forms, pricing from rmb3800 for the single barrel to rmb11500 for the grade 5 titanium double barrel version. You then have addons like clear rubies/gyro max balance wheel of gen vaucher movements which further bump up the price. Asked about a white NTPT RM061, all said and done, about RMB35k
                Hopefully that will be the case man ill ask about those configs.
                Last edited by XLR8R; 25-11-21, 08:16.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Tebburaner View Post
                  I heard from my dealers that the movement comes in single barrel, grade 2 and grade 5 titanium plate forms, pricing from rmb3800 for the single barrel to rmb11500 for the grade 5 titanium double barrel version. You then have addons like clear rubies/gyro max balance wheel of gen vaucher movements which further bump up the price. Asked about a white NTPT RM061, all said and done, about RMB35k
                  Just got an answer from one of my sources. He says as in his words. "Standart china bullshitting. Not possible." Asks you if thats the case then purchase it. If you get the real thing then asks you where you purchased it so they can buy it aswell. He says things with this level of certinity when he knows it ain't gonna happen.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by XLR8R View Post

                    Just got an answer from one of my sources. He says as in his words. "Standart china bullshitting. Not possible." Asks you if thats the case then purchase it. If you get the real thing then asks you where you purchased it so they can buy it aswell. He says things with this level of certinity when he knows it ain't gonna happen.
                    So no clone movement?…


                    Sent from my 15202

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Benjijm View Post

                      So no clone movement?…


                      Sent from my 15202
                      Clone movement yes. Cheap price no because limited supply

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by XLR8R View Post

                        Clone movement yes. Cheap price no because limited supply
                        Let’s just hope it’s not $42,000 under $10,000 I would say is realistic (hopefully)


                        Sent from my 15202

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Benjijm View Post

                          Let’s just hope it’s not $42,000 under $10,000 I would say is realistic (hopefully)


                          Sent from my 15202
                          Who knows but i personally exoect to be things being better in q2-q3 2022

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by XLR8R View Post

                            Most certinally that will happen eventually but we gotta recall the price noob paid back in the day for the 4130. Considering that its much more easier to understand the slow development on the mass producment. The price is really step only thing we can do is wait for good news. Considering the fact that there are reps for many watches between 5-20k. One of the more known examples i can give is Phongs 1518 and 2499 if i recall correctly is around 20+. so really expensive reps don't shock me anymore im used to it. Gen rm movement obviously doesn't cost that much but probably people who buy it will determine the action factories will take based on the interest on the project and probably fund the cost at the same time. Funding thing is my guess but thats an possibility. I double checked personally many of my contacts and yes those are the price currently for the movement sadly. Who knows but exciting things are ahead of the rep world. Who would have imagined like back in 2015 that we would see 035, 4130, 3120, 324, proper 3135 clones. Considering the way the industry and technology moves anything can happen i guess.
                            I'd also hope for the 5-12k range for high quality in small to medium production. How small we talkin?
                            also, those phongs you mentioned, never heard of them, could you explain? Thank you so much for everyone's input.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by XLR8R View Post

                              Just got an answer from one of my sources. He says as in his words. "Standart china bullshitting. Not possible." Asks you if thats the case then purchase it. If you get the real thing then asks you where you purchased it so they can buy it aswell. He says things with this level of certinity when he knows it ain't gonna happen.
                              I know we're both just messengers but seems very defensive on his part. I have seen some gen Richard Mille movements (maybe not RMUL2/3) off of RM010/RM005 go for less money than RMB300,000, so that price for a Chinese-made movement is ridiculous. It would even be cheaper to buy unskeletonized vouchers, take them apart, and redevelop the skeleton bridges for those movements and sell them modified in that form.

                              Lets look at the economics behind this- the Noob 4130 is in all aspects more complex and harder to produce than this skeletonized Vaucher ebauche and the watches are only USD6-800. Last I heard, the development of the Noob 4130 all in was <RMB20,000,000, but I do believe the development cost for simpler movements is probably less, especially now with more advanced R&D. This is the only reason why we have 100 different 3135/3186/3235 copies, 925 Jaeger copy, 3120 and 324 from AP and Patek, random skeleton tourbillons - the R&D cost has gone down a lot.

                              So let's say the development cost for the RM movement, including buying a gen RM, is <RMB12,000,000. Would any reasonable business think it's a prudent decision to make just 40(!) movements to try to recoup a 12 million sunk development cost? That literally makes zero sense. Yes, probably those 40 would be sold, but how big is the market for an RMB300k fake watch compared to an RMB3k or even RMB30k watch? They will make a lot more money-making a lot more of those movements cheaper.

                              I'm perfectly happy to accept that the people making these movements are as ridiculous as that and I'm completely wrong, but lets sit tight and see first?
                              Last edited by Tebburaner; 25-11-21, 15:43.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Tebburaner View Post

                                I know we're both just messengers but seems very defensive on his part. I have seen some gen Richard Mille movements (maybe not RMUL2/3) off of RM010/RM005 go for less money than RMB300,000, so that price for a Chinese-made movement is ridiculous. It would even be cheaper to buy unskeletonized vouchers, take them apart, and redevelop the skeleton bridges for those movements and sell them modified in that form.

                                Lets look at the economics behind this- the Noob 4130 is in all aspects more complex and harder to produce than this skeletonized Vaucher ebauche and the watches are only USD6-800. Last I heard, the development of the Noob 4130 all in was <RMB20,000,000, but I do believe the development cost for simpler movements is probably less, especially now with more advanced R&D. This is the only reason why we have 100 different 3135/3186/3235 copies, 925 Jaeger copy, 3120 and 324 from AP and Patek, random skeleton tourbillons - the R&D cost has gone down a lot.

                                So let's say the development cost for the RM movement, including buying a gen RM, is <RMB12,000,000. Would any reasonable business think it's a prudent decision to make just 40(!) movements to try to recoup a 12 million sunk development cost? That literally makes zero sense. Yes, probably those 40 would be sold, but how big is the market for an RMB300k fake watch compared to an RMB3k or even RMB30k watch? They will make a lot more money-making a lot more of those movements cheaper.

                                I'm perfectly happy to accept that the people making these movements are as ridiculous as that and I'm completely wrong, but lets sit tight and see first?
                                Yea man i agree with that what can we do but looks like thats the price. I guess it has to be even less than 40 for those prices.

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