I'm struggling to see the value in a gen Rolex!!!

[ABC123]

This may or may not hold true into the future. While it is true that Rolex has held its value really well over the post several decades it is certainly possible that this won't hold true into the future. I think a good argument could be made for why it is unlikely to continue as it has in the past. A lot of Rolex appreciation in the pre-owned market has been directly related to how Rolex has changed their pricing at the AD. If you look it up, you will see that in 1960 a Rolex sub cost $150. Using 3.25% inflation (which is the average I found when I looked that up) adjusted for inflation that same Rolex should cost $1022 today but instead it costs roughly 10k.

Will Rolex be able to maintain the aggressive pricing increases that they have in the past? I guess only time will tell.



Idk about this....
I have bought and sold dozens of both Gens and Reps. My experience with buying Gens is that if I buy new at the AD I can expect to lose a minimum of 25% the minute I walk out the door & some brands it is A LOT worse. (excluding Rolex) Say you buy a relatively modest Oris for 2k, you are going to take a minimum of $500 loss to sell it & more than likely it will be significantly more.

With Reps my experience has been that I rarely lose more than $75 if I decide to sell when the watch is in good condition.

As a general rule, watches make extremely poor investments (including Rolex)

The issue is on the popular models, there are constant updates that render the past version "obsolete".
I've a Noob v10 for sale right now. I bought it new for $480, all TDs now have dropped the price to $330 because new version is out. There is no way I can sell it for more than $300.

 

[CJS57]

There is no reason or ratioinale needed to splurge on a Rolex if you have the extra money. It can make you feel good about yourself that you can just go purchase it, wear it, use it and then just move on to other pursuits.

 

[Hagus]

I’m going to buy a gen on tuesday... it’s hard to justify, but I’ve sold all my reps and it’s not much more than them, I’d ended up with a lot of box queens. I won’t have to save, or miss any money, or make any sacrifices, so why not, it’s a watch that I’ve wanted since I was 15! Also I’m buying gold, and gold reps never seem quite right to me.

 

[Hagus]

Oh, and the watch I’m buying has already done it’s depreciating, so I’m not going to lose anything significant. I can’t bear depreciation!

 

[BOSSK]

Oh, and the watch I’m buying has already done it’s depreciating, so I’m not going to lose anything significant. I can’t bear depreciation!

Nice, what Gen are you getting?

 

[Jackster]

Nice, what Gen are you getting?

Yes, i'm curious too!

 

[Hagus]

Datejust 36mm 5 digit, bimetallic on jubilee, the first Rolex that caught my eye, the one that I grew up (in the 80’s) being the definition of a Rolex, the one I had a terrible fake of when I was 15.

The watch that got me into watches.

I’m driving three hours to a Rolex dealer that has at least 5 mint looking ones that could be for me, I’ve made an appointment and I’m taking an envelope of cash, and I intend to come home with whichever one grabs me by the balls.

 

[Docrolex]

Good decision, i feel absolutely the same. The two-tone 36mm and 34mm Date Rolex watches were the unfulfilled dream of my youthhood. And I was having a replica too, I bought it on a fle-market, and I think, it was a gen. With refitted movement, and I was very fond of it. Unfortunately it got lost over the years. Fortunately, I bought several Datejust, Date, Turn-o-graph, Oysterquartz and even a super -rare 1630 Datejust over the last 25 years, when they were pretty affordable. Never had a Submariner, GmT or Daytona, just Datejusts, and one 16750 Explorer II, but never liked it, always preferred the Datejust. Get yourself one or more, best Investment you can do, they will never lose value.

 

[Big Baz]

It's all about the laws of probability ...

Your gen. Rolex will probably never fail ... your rep. Rolex probably will fail.

As a fella who owns reps and gens, a trawl through the M2M posts is always a good reminder for me. I'd guess that half the reps posted FS have a declared fault ... and a few others will have undeclared faults. By contrast, a late model or freshly serviced gen. Rolex will usually be pretty darn perfect, they really are a marvel of engineering .

On RWI and RWG many of us get really hung up on the pursuit of a perfect 114060 or 116610 (or whatever reference spins our wheels) but we often measure perfection by the aesthetics only. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't got intimate with a gen. Rolex to go visit an AD and simply ignore the shiny bits. Just focus on the touchy feely crown out, set the time and date, manual winding and nipping back the crown. Once you feel the buttery smooth mechanical action that is present with all gen. Rolex watches ... and just a few reps , you'll never again accept anything less than a top tier rep. and will probably start setting some goals to get a gen. on your wrist.

My daily for years was a gen. pre-owned 16600 Sea-Dweller, a simply splendid watch. A few vintage Subs and GMTs' have come and gone since and while some arrived a bit crusty, there was nothing that the old boy who's done my work for years couldn't get back to new watch functionality. I love anything that ticks and have really enjoyed my venture into the dark side with reps. They are fun and some are superbly made ... but gen. is gen. and rep. is rep. Simple really.

Oh, and yes I do think Rolex are absolutely raping us with their pricing model for gens. but whaddya do ?

 

[mac83]

I have never owned a gen Rolex but have come close to pulling the trigger on a twotone datejust a few times. I think a gen can give you a feeling of accomplishment that maybe a rep won't. That being said nowadays if was to get a gen Rolex it would be a sports model to flip for a profit . I think you can bang up your reps and not think twice about them, on a gen I know I would be very cautious and paranoid about scratches dents etc, just my two cents.

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[Big Baz]

What Nanook65 said


" ...... how Rolex has changed their pricing at the AD. If you look it up, you will see that in 1960 a Rolex sub cost $150. Using 3.25% inflation (which is the average I found when I looked that up) adjusted for inflation that same Rolex should cost $1022 today but instead it costs roughly 10k ..... "

A long time ago I sat in a university lecture room for a few years and sucked in the bare minimum needed for them to reluctantly confer me with a Bachelor's Degree in Management and Marketing and a Post Grad. Diploma in Finance. It really set me up for my current vocation as a painter / decorator ????

Cos I've always loved watches, I do recall in a marketing paper where the strategies of Rolex over the decades were dissected. A focus of that particular paper was trying to drum into us the difference between value and perceived value and maintaining desirability for a commodity once it was established. That included a review of the Rolex policy over the decades whereby retail pricing was adjusted manually for each country, at a level that was higher than the particular country's annual inflation figure. So yes, for decades a shiny new Rolex from an AD has indeed been a bit more of a stretch each year ... and therefore just that bit more desirable .


Fast forward to 2020, and Rolex ownership is certainly within the grip of a lot more people. We don't see many platinum Day-Dates in the wild but in some circles every man and his dog has a Submariner. And before the Smart Watch became a thing, if you didn't already own a Rolex, you wanted one.


Clever fella that Hans Wilsdorf and his legacy certainly lives on at Rolex S.A.

 

[YellowFin]

What Nanook65 said
And before the Smart Watch became a thing, if you didn't already own a Rolex, you wanted one.

Luckily, smart watches changed all that and no one wants a Rolex these days...

 

[Docrolex]

In some circles, every man and his dog has a submariner, great statement, lol. Thats the reason why I never wanted a Submariner, because even decades ago, the submariners of those people and their dogs were mainly fakes. Real gentlemen and wealthy people used to wear a Datejust. But times have changed significantly.
now its complete different people wearing Rolex, driving Mercedes and having a boat than in the 1970s and 80s

 

[Art Tic]

I bought a Rolex Sub for my 40th birthday because I wanted one for a while. It was an iconic watch, and a coworker who was an outdoor sports enthusiast worn one for ages and claimed it never fail him. I wore the Sub for about five years and then bought the Omega moonwatch. The Omega was not as accurate, so after a few months I went back to the Sub. It still looks nice and is ticking accurately after the last service. I still wear it occasionally, and will never sell it because it went with me on a few memorable adventures around the world.

Today's Sub reps are getting scary close, and I have bought a few, but they will never be the real thing.

 

[sfgerl]

First, full disclosure: I was delighted to finally own a gen Rolex watch, a 1978 Air King that I got for 2K. Now I can say I have one Rolex watch.
Oh, and I have a used Rolex Kentucky cap that I paid $25 for (I lived in Lexington for many years). OK, that's done.


Several members have noted that a few decades ago, Rolex watches were relatively affordable in terms of a luxury watch, and the ADs had a vastly different attitude towards buyers as compared to now. Then, you could save your money, go into an AD and they would happily sell you the Rolex of your choice. Now, the pricing is crazy and AD attitudes have changed (with some verging on extortion.)

Ask yourselves, is a new Rolex watch really and truly worth the prices asked today? (Note that I make a distinction here between NEW and VINTAGE watches) I would say no, and here is why.

Two reasons: BRANDING and MARKETING.

Go to an AD shop - you'll find them where all of the luxury commercial real estate shops are. Lot of $$$$$ per square foot.
Then go to the Rolex webpage and read about everything they sponsor: I counted six major worldwide equestrian events, plus several golf events and three major Formula 1 racing events. Go on eBay and look for Rolex swag - keychains, caps, pens, knives, bags, clothing etc. All available secondhand at INSANE prices, just due to the Rolex logo.

Then ask yourself - are all of those items really better than the same item without the logo? Nope - and I guarantee you that most, if not ALL of them were MADE IN CHINA!

So who pays for the high-end real estate, the overpriced swag? Who pays for the events and the athletes they sponsor?

YOU DO, when you pay 10K for a watch that probably costs them 1/10th of that to make!


In my opinion, those who spout invectives against rep owners have a good point - but only ONE good point. That is, it is an illegal industry and by buying reps we are likely supporting sweatshop workers who work in substandard conditions for little pay. That is a valid point.

But for those who drank the Kool Aid, and throw slurs at anyone who chooses to either purchase or build a frankened watch (made with anywhere from 10% to 90% real Rolex parts) for a fraction of the cost of a real Rolex, and who try to convince me that a gen Rolex is vastly superior - well, good luck with that. In the end, a watch is a watch is a watch. It tells time, hopefully very accurately. It's going to be very hard to convince me that I'm getting a vastly better deal by spending 2 - 3 times to own a real Rolex, vs. one that is all Rolex but the case (or the dial, or the movement, etc.)


Having said all that, here are the three reasons I can come up with, to own a real Rolex (as opposed to a rep):

1) You want to be able to say, with 100% truthfulness, "I own a Rolex watch."

2) You believe that Rolex watches are good for investment purposes.

3) You want to own a luxury item that is personal, and can be passed down to a son or daughter.


Finally, don't be surprised if one of these days, Rolex starts selling a watch that is made with some Chinese parts, re-branding it, and pricing in a lower tier than Tudor.

I can see the fine print in marketing ads already: "Some parts are not made in Switzerland, but have have one-to-one specifications to genuine Rolex manufacture".

 

[bocodoku]

YOU DO, when you pay 10K for a watch that probably costs them 1/10th of that to make!

To be fair, Switzerland is an expensive place and salaries are way too high -- the beginner watchmaker's salary would easily be $60k a year (and the different watchmaking companies employ hundreds if not over a thousand of them) -- and a more experienced watchmaker can go double that.

Salaries and real estate determine the costs of running a business and real estate is crazy expensive in Switzerland as well.

I'd estimate that around half the cost of the watch is labor + real estate and around 25% would be for marketing. The rest would be profit -- that margin would of course increase for more expensive models.

One of the reasons why Chinese reps are cheaper is that the salaries are much lower -- between $6k (with dormitory included) to $20k USD for more experienced workers, depending on the factory and working conditions.

 

[sfgerl]

To be fair, Switzerland is an expensive place and salaries are way too high -- the beginner watchmaker's salary would easily be $60k a year (and the different watchmaking companies employ hundreds if not over a thousand of them) -- and a more experienced watchmaker can go double that.

Salaries and real estate determine the costs of running a business and real estate is crazy expensive in Switzerland as well.

I'd estimate that around half the cost of the watch is labor + real estate and around 25% would be for marketing. The rest would be profit -- that margin would of course increase for more expensive models.

One of the reasons why Chinese reps are cheaper is that the salaries are much lower -- between $6k (with dormitory included) to $20k USD for more experienced workers, depending on the factory and working conditions.

I do recognize that the quality of rep parts made in China is not necessarily equivalent to genuine Rolex parts - in some cases, it may not even be close, despite the specs. But there is no doubt in my mind that if the Rolex company made parts in China instead of Switzerland, in other words, paid "Rolex-schooled" Chinese laborers to legitimately manufacture components out of the same metals and with the same machines as Rolex in Switzerland uses, the cost would drop dramatically, and they of course would be more affordable. After all, Rolex watches are not "100% made by hand", and they certainly do not take one year to make (I have a bridge to sell to anyone who believes that).

What you have noted essentially supports my opinion, that a large chunk of the the actual retail cost of the watch is irrespective of the quality of the product and its components, and produces a large profit margin which enables Rolex to sponsor highbrow events and athletes.

Rolex knows it could have parts made elsewhere and sell the watch at a lower cost. They also know that there is the issue of "Rolex mystique" - that is, the brand itself. It has been fed to the general public over decades in very successful spoonfuls of ads (which I love to look at), as well as Bond movies. It's also the reason I own a Rolex rep - it's an iconic watch with an iconic history.

They count on the tried and true psychology that the harder it is to get something that costs a lot, the more people want it.

 

[Gordo0220]

I've seen it discussed on Rolex forums that some gen Rolex parts are made in Asia such as the crown from Thailand, lume paint from Japan...

I also found this in Wiki "Swiss law considers a watch to be Swiss made if its movement is Swiss, if the movement has been assembled in the Swiss region, its final inspection occurred in Switzerland, and at least 60% of manufacturing costs are domestic."


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[Gordo0220]

Finally, don't be surprised if one of these days, Rolex starts selling a watch that is made with some Chinese parts, re-branding it, and pricing in a lower tier than Tudor.

I can see the fine print in marketing ads already: "Some parts are not made in Switzerland, but have have one-to-one specifications to genuine Rolex manufacture".

Agreed but I think it will be more like "Designed and tested in Switzerland assembled in Vietnam"


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[Hagus]

Well I got it!