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OK want to start a controversial subject, and I know Im going to get flammed over it..... but

English Gent

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Lol @ the shitty logo. I have seen many watches I found gorgeous! Them the logo says "winner" or some mess lol. Then I know this gorgeous watch is gonna fall apart. Seems if they could design such a watch they could stretch their imagination with the logo.

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whats a

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does it have tells? or peasant wrote on it (ref to you last comment)
 

stufuse

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Live in Hampstead mate, try getting a flat for around £3k, so one bedroom studios are the way to go in central London, (lived in Camden for 18 years for £1200 a month flat)

Ah I know it well, nice part of the world. I assume you’re talking rental. Plenty 2 beds under 3k a month within 0.8 of Hampstead Station/ high road.


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English Gent

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Ah I know it well, nice part of the world. I assume you’re talking rental. Plenty 2 beds under 3k a month within 0.8 of Hampstead Station/ high road.


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I'm renting a studio, so basically a room with bathroom, £1200 a month... but worth it for the area/culture lived in London for 30 years so makes sense
 

Glaude

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Lets keep this civil or I'll close the thread.

To double pile on that and this :

Hi Trip,

Rather you close it, looks like this wank fest will go on forever

P

We won't close this thread as this is always used as a last resort, and there's no need here, but :

Without commenting on the content of the thread, more than I already did : nothing has changed since my comment, it's the exact same thing, just a few more pages added to it.

It doesn't help anyone here, OP or people opposed to him, to ressort to name calling and ad hominem attacks just for the sake of it. If it's the only way to comment and argue on this thread, then there's nothing of value anymore in it, it mean it's running in circles.

There's a healthy way to debate and no one is required to have the same opinion, but as Trip said : keep it civil, or the actions will be taken over the people not being able to follow the rule.

And lastly :

I just tried to be honest, but this is a fake forum, so what did I expect

P

Don't turn that around, you started this knowing exactly it wouldn't turn well, look at the title, you just did not expected this to turn against you rather than against what you were trying to say but failed at it.
If the forum doesn't suit you, quit posting and leave, hardly any point to stay in a place you don't feel welcomed, but it's up to you
 

sfgerl

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I'm honestly happy for you that you enjoy the look and quality of your watch for the price. But - as a designer - surely you notice that the "Pagani Design GMT" is a total ripoff of an original Rolex design!

I love Rolex subs, especially vintage ones. I love the look, the design, the history - everything about them. I own some high-end frankens, two are all Rolex but the midcase. By doing that, I can have several watches, all different models, instead of one gen. I love wearing them, and don't plan on selling them, so I don't care if I recoup my money. I have had a blast in sourcing the various parts (and have educated myself in the process) and met some wonderful people on this forum. It's a hobby and I love it.

What I hate about Rolex is that they are way overpriced, and have the mentality that all gratitude belongs on the part of the buyer and not the AD. I read on TRF how some guy spent over $50,000 on two Rolexes and as a "thank you" present, the AD gave him a box of chocolates and a Rolex pouch - but only after the buyer kissed his ring..... ( just kidding). I'm sorry, but that's just crazy.

Some of the vintage frankens I have would fool 99.9% of anyone looking at them. If someone wants to think it's a real Rolex, it's OK by me. If people ask me about a watch (one person has), I tell them the truth. But that doesn't happen, really. I'm a professional, so they assume it's a Rolex.

Honestly, if there were a watch that looked exactly like one of mine, was built really well, cost only $100 PP but had "SNOTTEX" or "YUGO" on the dial, you couldn't pay me to wear it.

That's just me - I guess that makes me a Rolex snob. There is snobbery, and there is inverse snobbery - it just depends on one's viewpoint. Each to their own!
 

muiramas

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my original point and one I will stand by is the Pagani gives you all the looks of a Rolex if that is what you wanted for a tenth of the price, and it isn't a fake

and I pointed out its strange that people argue the reason they buy fake Rolex is that they like the look when there are many homages that ape the look, but I guess a fake is more of a flex, BUT it is a bloody fake however you look at it

simple point.

There are a few things you say which I disagree with, I think this one seems to be the most recurring in your argument.

You can take a bunch of homages - some are closer to the original than others, but the changes they have, are usually for the worse - both functionally and aesthetically. The flat lugs of a Steinhart for example, or the lack of shape precision/definition in your original example - that Pagani (and calling it an Explorer is beyond ridiculous). NTH look nice in their product renders, but the reality is that they lack precision and feel rather cheap.

What they also have in common is that the design is still stolen. The application of a crap-tier brand mark on its face does not atone for that original sin. If you're going to rip off a watch design, not ripping off the logo does not make it any more acceptable outside of a legal context. At least not to me.

Designers have a proclivity to try and bring people round to their way of thinking. It's part of a winning pitch. But a more important skill a designer should have is knowing when a client isn't on board with what they are trying to say or do. One thing we will probably both have been guilty of is that expression 'educate the client', which I personally hate and call my team out on whenever I hear it. My point is, don't try and bring people round to your way of thinking - because people are different and complex. Folks here are entitled to make of this place whatever they want and discover what works for them.

Just look at the closing copy of your OP -

"Please, polite conversation. I'm just pointing out facts."

(I fixed 3 typos in it for you - just that bit! For a creative director that's very bad!)

That you framed your view as 'fact' - and stuck to it - is where you went wrong, and got so many hackles up. You generally failed to engage with other viewpoints hiding behind the pretext that you were probably going to 'get flamed for it' anyway.
 
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English Gent

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There are a few things you say which I disagree with, I think this one seems to be the most recurring in your argument.

You can take a bunch of homages - some are closer to the original than others, but the changes they have, are usually for the worse - both functionally and aesthetically. The flat lugs of a Steinhart for example, or the lack of shape precision/definition in your original example - that Pagani (and calling it an Explorer is beyond ridiculous). NTH look nice in their product renders, but the reality is that they lack precision and feel rather cheap.

What they also have in common is that the design is still stolen. The application of a crap-tier brand mark on its face does not atone for that original sin. If you're going to rip off a watch design, not ripping off the logo does not make it any more acceptable outside of a legal context. At least not to me.

Designers have a proclivity to try and bring people round to their way of thinking. It's part of a winning pitch. But a more important skill a designer should have is knowing when a client isn't on board with what they are trying to say or do. One thing we will probably both have been guilty of is that expression 'educate the client', which I personally hate and call my team out on whenever I hear it. My point is, don't try and bring people round to your way of thinking - because people are different and complex. Folks here are entitled to make of this place whatever they want and discover what works for them.

Just look at the closing copy of your OP -

"Please, polite conversation. I'm just pointing out facts."

(I fixed 3 typos in it for you - just that bit! For a creative director that's very bad!)

That you framed your view as 'fact' - and stuck to it - is where you went wrong, and got so many hackles up. You generally failed to engage with other viewpoints hiding behind the pretext that you were probably going to 'get flamed for it' anyway.


I'm Dyslexic and use Grammarly on my browser, but if I'm writing quickly I can miss stuff. A creative director is normally artist based, and I use copywriters and sub editors. well in the jobs I do, I'm also an artist (mainly digital) so see things differently, (brain wise, its why I can be very OCD) so the need to be great at writing isn't needed. I do come up with cover lines and headlines, but they are then subbed and worked on.

I agree with a lot of what people said back and even became friendly with a lot of the people on this thread, but I have to stick to my original 'fact' if you want a Rolex looking watch, then these cheap to expensive homages do the job, and this is the important bit, you can wear it around watch collectors with maybe a bit of scorn for homages. but if it was fake, with fake logo on, then its a no go.

no serious watch collector is going to take you seriously, maybe its snobbery or whatever, but I think guys that spend 10's of thousands of hard or not so hard earned money on their collection, will never see the love of the Rep game.

I buy loads as I've mentioned of reps, but I don't wear them out (maybe the shops) and normally is just to check them out, sometimes buying gens of them.

really not trying to be above anyone, just saying I hang around with a bunch of watch collectors and they have no time for fakes. I do and see how its a fun hobby.

But that Pagani is good value watch! really is. there's also a shit ton of great watches below £1k (NTH are very good, so not sure what experience you've had with them, I've had 4 models all with snowflake hands and the Seamster 300 homage) the Ginualt (TC) and my new Seiko 62mas redo are all better watches than most of the factory watches. and bit more expensive, but no more than a modded to make it look ok rep.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

Im waiting for Black bay 58 blue Rep.... now that's a more fun convo!
 

muiramas

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I'm Dyslexic and use Grammarly on my browser, but if I'm writing quickly I can miss stuff. A creative director is normally artist based, and I use copywriters and sub editors. well in the jobs I do, I'm also an artist (mainly digital) so see things differently, (brain wise, its why I can be very OCD) so the need to be great at writing isn't needed. I do come up with cover lines and headlines, but they are then subbed and worked on.

Fair enough. Sorry for the jibe. Most of the great creatives that I've worked with are dyslexic. Left lobe / right lobe thing.
(And to be honest, your typos only jumped out because I use Grammarly as well, because, like most creatives, I'm dyslexic...)






Im waiting for Black bay 58 blue Rep.... now that's a more fun convo!

My 'real' BB58B says 'Hi'. You should get the real one!






50-F3-D416-2963-4-E82-BB19-C5-ADF642-C046.jpg
 
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English Gent

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Fair enough. Sorry for the jibe. Most of the great creatives that I've worked with are dyslexic. Left lobe / right lobe thing.
(And to be honest, your typos only jumped out because I use Grammarly as well, because, like most creatives, I'm dyslexic...)








My 'real' BB58B says 'Hi'. You should get the real one!






50-F3-D416-2963-4-E82-BB19-C5-ADF642-C046.jpg

Damn, watch looking good, I want to try the fit first and tempted to buy the leather strap version, (I have arthritis, so unless easy-adjust, bracelets can be a nightmare) but also cost-saving.

I've been known to buy my Tudors on leather then use a rep bracelet on it if it works well, that way save on the original purchase, put a nice vintage strap on the rep and sell the rep on!

videos I've seen so far, the dial blue looks darker than the bezel, this might make me go or the BB58 in black, would love a red bezel version, Love my original BB ETA in red, but can be a bit big if my wrists are in their small mode!

be good if you could buy aftermarket inserts for the BB58 bezels, Harrods green and red for the gilt dial version.
 
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Dissemination

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I'm just gonna chime in again and say I think reps are fun but obviously understandable how they wouldn't be taken seriously by many a watch collector. I also understand the point about homages. All of that being said...

I think Frankens are for the most hard-core collector. Period. The time and patience it takes to figure such things out is far beyond any other type of watch collecting. It really is quite a grand puzzle... learning to source parts effectively, what base to use, who to build them... I talk with people all over the world because of it.

Now, I will say, those people who are able to snag the hard to get Rolex, AP, PP, etc without a lavish purchase history also have my utmost respect. Sure some of it is luck, but I'd say there are some serious interpersonal skills required. Also some serious cash (relatively).

In regards to snobbery, I feel like that can go so many ways. You can be a snob based on exclusivity and cost, which is self explanatory. Or could go the other way pragmatically speaking. I.e. wow you bought THAT?? Don't you know you could have bought twice the watch for half the price?? You're not a real enthusiast.

Out of the handful or two of people that actually give any shits whatsoever about what is on my wrist, every single one of them has been at least genuinely amused if not relatively enamored with my pursuit of frankens. Of course, it does take some salesmanship so I don't sound like the buffoon I actually am lol. But it works, and they think my frankens are cooler than my gens. Of course, only gens go on the wrist if I even think I might be going to an AD for any brand. So that says something about how I really feel deep down too lol.

Lastly, my ginault bracelet is fucking splendid. And any homage that can do that for me gets wrist time. Next up is a Maurice Lacroix Aikon automatic.