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So I got scammed….twice here.....

Rx4Time

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I know TB, but it is a matter of principle to me, as this scambug is allowed to sell his stuff, misdescribe and doesn't deliver what is in the salesthread, then this it will be, you can close my account....
I have dealt with a lot of great guys here in the past 12 years, some I have met in real life at GTG's who became true friends........ but I have had it with scammers who can get away with deceiving members

Please don't let emotions and principals cloud your judgement. You can look at this way, by filing a PayPal dispute against him you are in essence now scamming him and you are now in the wrong. Please cancel the dispute and go back to the table with the mods and see if this can be fixed.
 
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flofas

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I'm having a terrible experience that has to do with zocker4711 . He had some personal problems so I gave him time, but I now see he is up and running in other forums. In case he doesn't reply in the next few weeks I'll be making a flogpost with my experience including the timeline of events, messages, emails, replies etc.
 

tripdog

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I'm having a terrible experience that has to do with zocker4711 . He had some personal problems so I gave him time, but I now see he is up and running in other forums. In case he doesn't reply in the next few weeks I'll be making a flogpost with my experience including the timeline of events, messages, emails, replies etc.

This has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, if you have a problem with a modder/member then open a Help Desk ticket:

https://www.rwihelp.com/
 
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tripdog

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Hi guys, I am the second seller that the dude called out... I didnt intend to reply because the mods stated clearly that there should be no interaction on the forum with each other and that we should walk our separate ways, but since the dude capice got to tell his side of the story I think it is only fair I get to tell mine. I know my time on the forum hasnt been long, and I havent had many sales here, but the few sales I did complete are all smooth. I can provide proof of that. Plus, this disagreement in a transaction doesnt immediately make someone a scammer right?

I sold the watch to the buyer in a used, not working condition. I never said the cosmetic condition was perfect, and I posted plenty of photos from different angles to try and let the potential buyers decide for themselves. If he doesnt agree with my defination of a 'good' cosmetic condition there is nothing I could do about it.
In fact, the watch was purchased from a m2m a while ago, and the watch arrived faulty. The stem pulled out, hence I sent it to a watchmaker who quoted me 300£. Obviously I didnt fix it, and it sat in a drawer ever since. After going on a long holiday I finally decided to try to fix the watch as a project myself but failed. Hence I decided to sell it on the forum to someone who could fix it such that a nice watch like this isnt wasted. My point is after I received the watch I never wore it, and the buyer claims that there is a ding, which he cant even capture on a photo for me to view. What kind of joke is that, trying to get me to refund for a issue he cant even prove to me that exists?

I included two straps in the package, and for god knows what reason the buyer claims to only have received one. Why on earth would I keep a strap On a watch I sold?? As youd know blancpain FFs comes with two clasps and two straps, and since I didnt sell the other one whered it go? Hence I came to the only logical conclusion, that the buyer wants to back out of the sale and hence made up and issue in order to get a refund. All because the watch wasnt as easy to fix as he initially thought. Anyways, it is my words against his, and as a seller what can I do when he threatens a paypal dispute? IF i really hadnt sent the second strap, I can refund the amount that the buyer needs to get a new one, and it is literally only 20£ on ebay. No reason he should ask for 50 euros.

I initially agreed to a 50euro refund only because the buyer repeatedly threatens a paypal dispute. However, After the buyer hurled a few more insults at me, and that the mods suggested a 35 euro refund, I decided there is no reason I should act out of good will and refund him 50 euros which I dont think the buyer deserves.

Fast forward to today, the buyer has neglected the advice from the mods and opened a paypal dispute despite getting no prior approval. And here I am getting sh*t on when I did nothing wrong (at least I dont think so.)

Its not like I havent been scammed here, in fact in my limited time here I have already been sent two watches that straight up doesnt work. But I dont make a big deal out of it, and I certainly didnt make a forum post dedicated to shaming the seller (I can provide proof of that as well)

If you forgot to include the second strap in the parcel, then surely you still have it somewhere at home, no ?

It was either in the parcel or it wasn't - if it wasn't, then logically you still have it.
 

Neo_one

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Or he never had a second strap and said it to improve his chances of a sale.
 
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Spitfire63

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That's the one thing that doesn't make sense to me, why would a long time, high contributing member make such a fuss over a missing strap if he had received it,
simple it wasn't in the package. And if it wasn't in the package then the sellers still has it or has sold it separately, I don't believe the I can't find it so I must have sent it line one bit
 
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kilowattore

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Whatever, come on capice dont throw 12 years on the forum away for 35 euro. I understand it's a matter of principle but the amount is ridiculous.
Karma is a bitch and if you've got taken advantage of it will come back. Lift the dispute and take the matter back to the mods.
 
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bkg!

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Somewhere in your peripheral vision
So the story goes like this - seller lists a watch - capice decides to buy it. Description and pictures are available for all to review at their own leisure. https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...rking-blancpain-fifty-fathoms-in-uk-for-cheap

Seller provides tracking number. Capice begins his crusade on this by outright accusing the seller of providing a false tracking number - which it turns out was simply waiting for Royal Mail to update. The tracking number was correct, and working and updated without any interaction or intervention from the seller; i.e. capice was wrong, but had already started the 'scammer' talk.

Watch is then received and capice says he didn't receive the strap and that there is a ding on one of the lugs. So, there are two issues here; the ding and the strap.

Let's start with the 'ding'. Well have a look at the pictures on the sales thread. If capice wants to post other pictures here, feel free. Personally, I don't see anything different from the sale thread. Objectively, there could be something there, there could be nothing there. Do bear in mind that this is a used watch, described as good condition, not perfect / as-new.

The strap - who knows. Seller says he posted it, buy claims he didn't receive it. As far as I am concerned, and as I told them both - its six of one, half a dozen of the other.

However, capice immediately began with the attitude of what I eventually described as playground antics of 8yo girls - honestly, I would not expect this of a full grown man, shit slinging calling the seller a liar re the condition of the watch; a scammer for not sending the second strap; and my personal favourite that shows just how playground this got - "you are really a pathetic little boy".

I mean come on, did you expect an attitude like that would beget anything other than similar responses?

PP disputes were threatened from a very early stage. So I started a PM chain with both of them so we could flesh it out - capice wants a €70 refund which in his mind is the difference for the issues. In my mind, as above, this is six of one, half a dozen of the other, so I tell them to split the difference 50:50 and thus a refund of €35 should be made. The seller, offered €50 - in my view this was pretty generous. But because this wasn't sent right away, playground antics continued again.

People have a life outside of the forum. Bloody hell, I have 6 kids - weekends are manic as fook. Anyone with any amount of kids will experience the same. Even if you don't have kids, life happens, we are busy, forum comes second to real world. In addition to this, some people don't always have the spare cash in the account to immediately process a payment, and may need a few days to reorganize funds between accounts etc. The time stamp on the messages (BST as you know I'm UK based) go from 03:08 when the seller offers €50 to 15:09 that capice is commenting that he's not received the refund yet - 12 hours for shits sake! On a Saturday morning no less (remember, the seller is also UK based), with half of that being the time most people would be asleep.

I check in the following afternoon asking for an update, and capice response within 12 minutes to say no funds, can I do a PP dispute - this is a repeat request that has come up several times by this point. Looking back, it is pretty clear to me that the intention was there to do this anyway, regardless of what the mods had to say about this. I told him not to jump to anything, as the seller had not been back on line since making the €50 offer, give him some time.

Playground antics then ensue again between them both, with the name calling etc. At this point the seller says that due to the attitude of capice, he will only process the refund on receipt of an apology or instruction from the mods to do it.

I had to step in again - here is a direct quote from my response to the behaviour of the pair of them - "Girls, this is worse than playground antics with 8 year olds. Any more of it and I will slap you both with a 30 day no sale".

Seller then says that his previous good will offer of €50 is rescinded due to the attitude of capice and he will only refund the €35 which is 50% of the difference as suggested by me. Again capice threatens a dispute. more back and to between them results in my final word on this being -

"Look guys, as I see it, and as I have said before, it is 50:50 on this. The good old, 'he said, she said' malarkey; six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I suggest, as I have several times, that you both take a little of a loss here and split the difference 50:50. If the difference is €70 then €35 is where it's at. I am not going to enforce a PP dispute over what amounts to €15, It is not worth the hassle for anyone. There is an amicable solution, that involves you both taking a loss. I'm not tolerating more of the shit slinging, name calling, or basically being childish. Thankfully you have both adhered to that so far. Let's keep it that way.

It is what it is. Both cut your losses and move on. If you don't agree with my decision, feel free to consult another mod, but let me tell you, I have discussed this situation with others, and I know that some of them have a lot less patience then me."


Capice then went and cried to the boss about it and when that didn't work he basically said 'fuck you, I'm raising a dispute anyway', although a little less poetically - "I will respect your decision on this but will not accept the 35 euro. I will post what went down with this sale, I will leave this forum and will contact paypal"

Like I said previously in this thread, you have tried to spin a sob story. Throughout all of this, I tried to help you both as amicably as possible, but you couldn't care less about the staff here, and your attitude shows that. You have said in this thread that you have no respect for Dave or I. Personally, I don't want your respect considering how you have behaved.

I think you've created a complete and total loss of any respect that anyone had for you by pushing this further.

Seriously, a PayPal dispute for €15 - you should be ashamed of yourself
 

capice

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As tripdog says...if the strap was forgotten, it could still be at home or was sold to someone else as the seller said he had 3 of the these watches, all with problems...I don't know but what I do know is that it wasn't in the package I received.
I would have gone the way Rx4Time and Kilowattore suggested and cancel the PP and I would donate the 50 euro to RWI or any good cause ...I would put up 200 with it......but reading bkg!'s last post showed me that that would be totally useless as he chose sides, but that's ok, at least now we know.

bkg! and your told me not to get personal...here you show your personal bias( personal crusade, PP dispute this is a repeat request that has come up several times by this point. Looking back, it is pretty clear to me that the intention was there to do this anyway, regardless of what the mods had to say about this) and the fact that you seriously doubt my complaint now,...you did not mention any doubts through the whole deal, only after I told I would leave and go the ppway? Why is that...and you are talking about respect???

I am not talking about money or a strap that wasn't there. I am talking about a seller who send a watch which wasn't as described, missing a second strap and this scammer is allowed to do this. That is what it is about.
Where did I say I did not respect mods??? show me, it is not there....XJ4SONX said "no respect"...on the second page, last post..I answered his post by asking "I have no respect for Raddave and BKG!...?" so you see the questionmark?

In the beginning when the seller didn't want to look for a solution and didn't reply to pm so I contacted you and asked for your help...for the ppdispute I knew it was against forumrules that is why I asked for help ....but it is also against forumrules to sell a watch on the forum, misdescribe it and not deliver what was advertised.....But I heard nothing about that. What has been done about that?

Cried to the boss? I pm'd you on June the 7th, on the 12th you said you didn't have a response on your pm to the seller yet, on the 20th still no reply, on the 1st of July, still nothing...I pm'd TB on 7/7 and asked him to contact you if you have read the pm's the seller send as I did not hear from you... ...I will not go your way to post the content of pm's as it is not allowed but I guess it is allowed for you.

In the pm's with the 3 of us, the seller repeated what he told me in pm, "it is your word against mine"....so clearly he knew what was going on.

I send you the photo with the dented lug and now you say "Personally, I don't see anything different from the sale thread"...you didn't say that after I send you the photo

But here is the photo again, next to the sellers photo, members can decide for themselves.



 

csthe

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This seems like a complicated case, and I'm not taking sides (there is so much unknown here that I think it is impossible to take sides). However, I must say that I'm impressed by bkg! post, it seems like the mods put a lot of effort and time behind the scenes to keep this community running smoothly.
Thank you!
 

T3RM1N4T0R

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This seems like a complicated case, and I'm not taking sides (there is so much unknown here that I think it is impossible to take sides). However, I must say that I'm impressed by bkg! post, it seems like the mods put a lot of effort and time behind the scenes to keep this community running smoothly.
Thank you!

More than ever could be imagined actually

and people wonder why I have a short fuse LOL
 

kkk12345m

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Firstly I would like to reiterate that even if i did forget to send a strap, and the watch had a scuff that I didnt mention, It doesnt immediately make me a scammer.

I took the photos right before posting the sales thread. I genuinely do not think that I couldve damaged the watch during the few day time window in bwtween creating the sales thread and actually posting the watch. Even if there was a tiny ding on the watch how on earth is that misdescription? It isnt like I said the watch was 'brand new' or 'used but in excellent condition'. It is as much my responsibility as a seller to mention the damage as it is yours, as the buyer, to check the images carefully and if in doubt you couldve asked me for a better closeup or something. I really did not see the 'ding' and hence I didnt mention it. Maybe I just assumed it looked quite good without serious damage to the casing because I didnt wear i, not once.

I did agree to a 50 euro refund and I apologize for taking the offer back. But I think my change of mind is justified becuase he kept on insulting me even after I agreed to refund. It isnt even a day after I raised the initial offer, and he already lost it. And since a 50:50 split is suggested, I thought a long time member would be more gracious and would accept that. But no he just went ahead and opened a dispute.

As for the strap, it is either I straight up lied, or that the buyer lied about not receiving it to get out of the sale/ to recoup some losses. In both cases, it is impossible to prove that either of us is at fault. The buyer can say I lied about the straps to increase the chance of a sale, I could also say that the buyer lied becuase the watch takes more money to fix than he had expected and hence he wanted a quick buck from a newb whom he thought would pay up when he threatened the dispute. I really do think that he just experienced buyer's remorse and wanted some money back to pay for the repair.

I think what I would do at this point is to just refund him 50 euro tomorrow and resolve the dispute. There isnt really anything I can do about it since the dispute was raised without approval and paypal never sides with the seller. Plus, there is no point letting this escalate and promote even more negativity in the forum. Theres a lesson in this for everyone, as someone suggested maybe do take pictures of the contents in the box before closing the box up. Hell, even take a video of youslef boxing it up to be safe. Or maybe just dont accept goods and service payments.

Considering the amount of insults he threw at me, and the repeated name-calling, I dont even know why I am still attempting to reason with the buyer lol. Seriously I dont know what he expects from me. That I take the loss when he still refers to me as mr. scumbag in public?

Thanks sales mods for all the attempts at resolving the issue. I really appreciate the effort you put in to make it a safe place for us to trade.
 
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kkk12345m

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Honestly if dude had not been such an ass, I would most likely have paid him the 70 euro he asked for and moved on. Being rude gets you nowhere in life.
 

DD60

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You guys need to cut the drama.
stop acting like a couple whiny kids and fix this yourselves like respectable men.

The amount of time being wasted here by you two is ridiculous. The ongoing disrespect to RWI, the moderators and one another is beyond acceptable.

Get it together you two !
capice kkk12345m
 

Pdatoon

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You guys need to cut the drama.
stop acting like a couple whiny kids and fix this yourselves like respectable men.

The amount of time being wasted here by you two is ridiculous. The ongoing disrespect to RWI, the moderators and one another is beyond acceptable.

Get it together you two !
capice kkk12345m

I could have written the exact same thing. My respect to all mods that are wasting their hobby precious time with those childish dramas.

Much Ado for nothing
 

DaleM

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thanks for the support guys, it is sad indeed....these guys will be around, just stick with the old garde and avoid newbies...I don't use phone as I preferred pm so in case of trouble, mods could help out which normally was true....you can;t tell anything from a phonecall as scammers are smart

Oh the PMs.I have been sitting on from the other site where I was offered additional straps but I decided to let that one die with the people.making all sorts of claims. Hell one POS even put false shipping dates and did not apologize when given the facts. Karma is a thing, I am sure of it.
 

moopsy

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All the props in the world to the mods for their patience on this one.

Apologies if chiming in is not appropriate here, but it seems to me that the buyer doesn’t want to own this watch and is unhappy with the purchase out of principle now. Why not just return mail the rep at buyers cost to the seller, and the seller just relist the watch for M2M sale, find a new buyer and be done with it?

Both buyer and seller have mentioned they’re fine with a partial refund/loss at this point, maybe the seller can recoup if not all, then most of his original selling price in a new sale, and the buyer would just be out the cost of shipping.

Shipping on new M2M sale would be paid for by the new buyer anyway.
 

TitleistRolex

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Damn this sucks big time. Hate to come back on in nearly year and read shit like this. This was the original reason I went dark in the first place. Seeing as it has continued ever since saddens me. I’m sorry this happened to you on so many levels and makes one lose trust in majority of this community, when not everyone is a bent backwards dick...
 

Rx4Time

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capice will you drop the PP dispute if he agrees to give you the 50 refund as soon as the drop is processed? I don't want to see anyone banned from here and it seems like the mods went above and beyond dealing with this overall. Again, not taking sides, I'd just like to see it solved and nobody be banned. Come on, at some point you've got to just say it's not worth it. I'm still confused why. kkk12345m
Will not accept a return and resell it. It's a good piece which many would like to have. personally, I'd just drop an ETA 2836 in it and be done. That would cost less then the 300 euros you were quoted and give a reliable piece.
 
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