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That dreaded "extra" credit card charge...

Techie12989

Known Member
6/7/16
135
30
28
So I've just made my third purchase from a TD, and foolishly forgot about the extra charge to the card imposed by the card processor. I have to admit, I may have overreacted when PureTime gave me basically "oh well" in not so few words when I inquired about the extra $67 I was charged, perhaps it's the language barrier that didn't translate to what I would've expected in a response. They were not clear enough in the emails to me about why it's there after I asked, and after looking on the forums, I found the answer only by searching for a while and finding others complaining about it. I checked my emails from my last purchase with them 2 years or so ago, and they refunded me the difference with an apology which probably explains why I forgot this happens. I think i paid Ryan via wire the first time I bought from a TD, so no surprises there.

This experience begs the question, why are the TD's not more transparent and upfront about what the charges will be? My purchase was for $802 according to the checkout on the website, but my card was charged $869, their mentality seems to be "Too bad you were charged more by the credit card processor, that's not our problem, we got what we were asking for." What stops this from being 20%, or 30%, or hell, a 100% up charge? I know we're buying illegal goods, but that's no excuse to be ripped off. I used my card for for points and to not take the cash hit right away, so forgoing the 5% discount was acceptable and I saw that difference VERY clearly prior to purchase. Adding another almost 10% to the deal is not what I agreed to, if I'd been made aware of that when I was going to purchase, I definitely would've used Bitcoin. Stateside, when I take a credit card payment, I know I'm going to loose 2-3% of the sale due to credit card processing fees, I don't pass that along to the customer, it's considered the cost of doing business. For wholesale purchase customers, I up-charge to the customer 2.5% if they want to pay with CC, but I'm clear and up-front about it. Why don't the TD's do the same? They make it clear that there's a discount for other payment methods, but no mention of an additional UNKNOWN amount of additional fees. I'm not pointing fingers or placing blame, it's shame on me I suppose for somehow missing this detail, but the practice is a bit shameful on their side in my opinion.

I looked back at the beginners guides and I couldn't find anything to prepare me for the extra charge, frankly it's not the forums responsibility, however maybe the beginners guides should be updated to reflect this and push people to use Bitcoin to avoid all other payment hassles. Maybe it's time for a beginners guide to bitcoin written up by someone here who's gracious enough to do so with their experiences?

This is a rant I suppose, but also a humble request to possibly update the beginners guides. I've been here long enough that I shouldn't be a "beginner" but I had an absence for over a year before I recently got the bug to change up my watches. I reviewed the what to expect guides, but still wasn't expecting an over charge. This forum has been invaluable to me and many others here, I'm in no way saying that the information provided is inadequate, or that because I joined the forum I'm obligated to have someone hold my hand during the entire process. Feel free to tell me to "F*&# Off" if I'm being foolish by posting my thoughts on the matter.

To begin a conversation, has anybody had any kind of resolution with TD's on this topic? Is it unfair for me to request a reimbursement of the over charge in the form of a discount towards a future watch purchase? A RubberB strap for my PAM111 thrown into the current order would make me happy, but I don't want to be unreasonable. My order is in "limbo" right now as a result of all of this, I don't want to make any rash decisions.
 
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SCShrek

SpoonFeeder
7/9/18
180
84
28
South Carolina, US
I had the same experience when I first started. I can’t answer what the charge is for except for processing fee, foreign exchange fees or maybe some combination both, I don’t know. I do know it got added by all of the TDs I bought from with a credit card.

I did the same as you by asking what’s up from the TD and all I got back was they received exactly what they were supposed to get so I assume all this was those two fees.

Assuming you have the money, the cheapest thing to do from the US is to use Western Union and complete the transfer at your closest WU store. The fee for sending $800 is around $7. You can start the transfer online and then walk in but if you do the whole WU transfer online, you will have to use a bank transfer, which takes several days to clear or use a CC where the fees are the same as just giving your CC to a TD.

I’ve also paid via PayPal using a credit card, and the fees are still there so it’s not the TD’s overcharging.

I have yet to try BTC but I hear is rather inexpensive as well.

Anyway, these are just my direct experiences. Different countries or maybe even different parts of the US may have different rates but I would think they would be the same across the US.
 
Last edited:

WATCH HACKER

I'm Pretty Popular
MULTI ACCOUNT
24/4/19
1,392
652
113
Currently in South Hampton
So I've just made my third purchase from a TD, and foolishly forgot about the extra charge to the card imposed by the card processor. I have to admit, I may have overreacted when PureTime gave me basically "oh well" in not so few words when I inquired about the extra $67 I was charged, perhaps it's the language barrier that didn't translate to what I would've expected in a response. They were not clear enough in the emails to me about why it's there after I asked, and after looking on the forums, I found the answer only by searching for a while and finding others complaining about it. I checked my emails from my last purchase with them 2 years or so ago, and they refunded me the difference with an apology which probably explains why I forgot this happens. I think i paid Ryan via wire the first time I bought from a TD, so no surprises there.

This experience begs the question, why are the TD's not more transparent and upfront about what the charges will be? My purchase was for $802 according to the checkout on the website, but my card was charged $869, their mentality seems to be "Too bad you were charged more by the credit card processor, that's not our problem, we got what we were asking for." What stops this from being 20%, or 30%, or hell, a 100% up charge? I know we're buying illegal goods, but that's no excuse to be ripped off. I used my card for for points and to not take the cash hit right away, so forgoing the 5% discount was acceptable and I saw that difference VERY clearly prior to purchase. Adding another almost 10% to the deal is not what I agreed to, if I'd been made aware of that when I was going to purchase, I definitely would've used Bitcoin. Stateside, when I take a credit card payment, I know I'm going to loose 2-3% of the sale due to credit card processing fees, I don't pass that along to the customer, it's considered the cost of doing business. For wholesale purchase customers, I up-charge to the customer 2.5% if they want to pay with CC, but I'm clear and up-front about it. Why don't the TD's do the same? They make it clear that there's a discount for other payment methods, but no mention of an additional UNKNOWN amount of additional fees. I'm not pointing fingers or placing blame, it's shame on me I suppose for somehow missing this detail, but the practice is a bit shameful on their side in my opinion.

I looked back at the beginners guides and I couldn't find anything to prepare me for the extra charge, frankly it's not the forums responsibility, however maybe the beginners guides should be updated to reflect this and push people to use Bitcoin to avoid all other payment hassles. Maybe it's time for a beginners guide to bitcoin written up by someone here who's gracious enough to do so with their experiences?

This is a rant I suppose, but also a humble request to possibly update the beginners guides. I've been here long enough that I shouldn't be a "beginner" but I had an absence for over a year before I recently got the bug to change up my watches. I reviewed the what to expect guides, but still wasn't expecting an over charge. This forum has been invaluable to me and many others here, I'm in no way saying that the information provided is inadequate, or that because I joined the forum I'm obligated to have someone hold my hand during the entire process. Feel free to tell me to "F*&# Off" if I'm being foolish by posting my thoughts on the matter.

To begin a conversation, has anybody had any kind of resolution with TD's on this topic? Is it unfair for me to request a reimbursement of the over charge in the form of a discount towards a future watch purchase? A RubberB strap for my PAM111 thrown into the current order would make me happy, but I don't want to be unreasonable. My order is in "limbo" right now as a result of all of this, I don't want to make any rash decisions.

My friend it happens to me as well, in TrustyTime before. That additional charge that you will not see on the checkout payment is the so called. CURRENCY EXCHANGE DIFFERENCE as most of the TD's called it. And it's 10% of you total payment, so yeah it's a lil bit high. At first I was shock as well, I was like "WTF" Because a 60 USD additonal payment is not a joke. In the end of the day, I swear that I'm not going to use my CC anymore. So there is another option but you need to talk to your TD regarding it.

Now I'm always using PayPal even though it doesn't have any discounts or the so called service RIA. My TD accepts it. So the watch that I bought lately from my TD icost 478 alone + 35USD for the shipping for the total of 513. I use paypal, no more additional charges, just the total payment I need to pay. I didn't receive any discount's but it's okay, I don't need to pay extras.

And BTW........ That package is coming tomorrow =)
 

SCShrek

SpoonFeeder
7/9/18
180
84
28
South Carolina, US
My friend it happens to me as well, in TrustyTime before. That additional charge that you will not see on the checkout payment is the so called. CURRENCY EXCHANGE DIFFERENCE as most of the TD's called it. And it's 10% of you total payment, so yeah it's a lil bit high. At first I was shock as well, I was like "WTF" Because a 60 USD additonal payment is not a joke. In the end of the day, I swear that I'm not going to use my CC anymore. So there is another option but you need to talk to your TD regarding it.

Now I'm always using PayPal even though it doesn't have any discounts or the so called service RIA. My TD accepts it. So the watch that I bought lately from my TD icost 478 alone + 35USD for the shipping for the total of 513. I use paypal, no more additional charges, just the total payment I need to pay. I didn't receive any discount's but it's okay, I don't need to pay extras.

And BTW........ That package is coming tomorrow =)

Did you get an email from TT saying they were gonna charge an extra 4% fir using a CC on PP? I did.
 

Glaude

Tech Admin
Staff member
Administrator
11/8/17
6,755
5,364
113
I'm well aware that this isn't a rant on the TD but I need to clear things up : the TD isn't responsible for those charges.
They are not in control of the card processor, here's how it works :

You put item in your shopping cart, you go to the payment page, you choose your type of card and then it's the card processor that takes the relay, the card processor receive the price asked by the TD to you and they add their fee to it, depending on the card processor the TD will also lose a bit money in the fee that the card processor is taking.

The TD website could warn you about those additional fees and they could even go as far as do the math for you in advance but that would require some custom coding and bear in mind that they are not web experts, they use ready-made solutions.

This is my second point : why don't they use other card processor, like the one you could find on any regular, say the US for example, e-commerce shop ? Because due to the nature of their activity, the place they are located, most of those regular card processor won't allow them to accept payment or will charge ridiculous fees on their side.

Some TDs with a nice website want to provide a "regular" shopping experience to the user by offering direct CC payment, but in the end, I think they rather use other forms of payment, where they can collect cash from an agent or where there are no fees for them, but that's incompatible with a regular shopping experience as it requires the customer to pay after and outside the website.
 
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Techie12989

Known Member
6/7/16
135
30
28
I understand that the TD isn't responsible for the charges, but I was not until 3 unclear emails and I researched it here after the fact. What I have issue with is that they are well aware of the charges because to them this is, to use their word, normal. They sent me proof that they were sent the $802 they listed on the website checkout (they got their side of the agreed transaction), but I know in other circumstances (or not shown to me) they may take a loss on their side as well, which brings me back to the 2-3% hit I take when I accept credit card charges from customers. I don't think we'd be adamant on a "set in stone" price, but if I saw a warning of an up to 10% surcharge for credit card payments like how they list the discounts for other payment methods, I'd go into the transaction knowing that beforehand. To one of your points, it would also motivate sellers to use a different payment method, and I can't even imagine how many emails they have back and forth for this very topic. So, posting the surcharge warning accomplishes more payments being made in other forms, and eliminates the time wasted on the 3 emails back and forth with me alone about this. The real kicker is when I was told that if I wanted to cancel, I can only get back 90% of what I paid. Kinda motivates one to call the CC company and reverse the charges. (not saying I'm going to)

It just seems to me that it's a win for everyone. I don't think it's fair for us to expect a "regular" shopping experience knowing very well what we're buying after all, I have to assume that TD's are not up-front about this for a reason, but I can't think of any logical reason other than something like "you're buying illegal goods, we can get away with it, deal with it."

At this point, it seems I really have no choice other than to just accept the hit and move on, but the experience has really put me off from buying from PureTime ever again. I would feel the same if this was happening with any of the TD's on this purchase, but it's the handling of it after it happened that just irks me. I can't say that any other TD would be so hard-lined about it, but from the sounds of the others posting here it seems like they are, and asking for anything else from them will just be a waste of time.
 

capice

I'm Pretty Popular
12/12/07
2,715
558
113
Never had this experience as I was always able to pay by pp, but imo it is an easy thing for all TD's who use a cc processor to mention the rate or at least warn about an additional charge when paying with cc....
 

PennyForTheGuy

You're Saying I Can Sell?
11/6/19
77
27
0
Southern California, USA
The upcharge from my TD for paypal transactions is 2-4% and they have it listed several places on their website. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I'm even less of a fan of dicking around with crypto, so it is what it is.

Honestly though, it sounds like you're overreacting. Local retail stores don't warn you about sales tax everywhere. But when the items get rung up you're still expected to pay it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

WATCH HACKER

I'm Pretty Popular
MULTI ACCOUNT
24/4/19
1,392
652
113
Currently in South Hampton
So the bottom part in here... make sure that you read first their disclaimer in their page. Not just in TrustyTime but to all TD's

For me it PP all the way. No hassle =)
 

Glaude

Tech Admin
Staff member
Administrator
11/8/17
6,755
5,364
113
I understand that the TD isn't responsible for the charges, but I was not until 3 unclear emails and I researched it here after the fact. What I have issue with is that they are well aware of the charges because to them this is, to use their word, normal. They sent me proof that they were sent the $802 they listed on the website checkout (they got their side of the agreed transaction), but I know in other circumstances (or not shown to me) they may take a loss on their side as well, which brings me back to the 2-3% hit I take when I accept credit card charges from customers. I don't think we'd be adamant on a "set in stone" price, but if I saw a warning of an up to 10% surcharge for credit card payments like how they list the discounts for other payment methods, I'd go into the transaction knowing that beforehand. To one of your points, it would also motivate sellers to use a different payment method, and I can't even imagine how many emails they have back and forth for this very topic. So, posting the surcharge warning accomplishes more payments being made in other forms, and eliminates the time wasted on the 3 emails back and forth with me alone about this. The real kicker is when I was told that if I wanted to cancel, I can only get back 90% of what I paid. Kinda motivates one to call the CC company and reverse the charges. (not saying I'm going to)

It just seems to me that it's a win for everyone. I don't think it's fair for us to expect a "regular" shopping experience knowing very well what we're buying after all, I have to assume that TD's are not up-front about this for a reason, but I can't think of any logical reason other than something like "you're buying illegal goods, we can get away with it, deal with it."

At this point, it seems I really have no choice other than to just accept the hit and move on, but the experience has really put me off from buying from PureTime ever again. I would feel the same if this was happening with any of the TD's on this purchase, but it's the handling of it after it happened that just irks me. I can't say that any other TD would be so hard-lined about it, but from the sounds of the others posting here it seems like they are, and asking for anything else from them will just be a waste of time.

I understand the frustration, CC payment have always been discouraged in favor of more secured way of paying an unknown source.
If you are required for any reason to use CC, a virtual CC card generator is the must have, your bank should have an app to do that for you.
 

tabamoura

Known Member
4/11/18
142
22
18
South Florida
The upcharge from my TD for paypal transactions is 2-4% and they have it listed several places on their website. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I'm even less of a fan of dicking around with crypto, so it is what it is.

Honestly though, it sounds like you're overreacting. Local retail stores don't warn you about sales tax everywhere. But when the items get rung up you're still expected to pay it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I never liked dealing with crypto Tried a couple of wallets which were a pain and gave up a few years ago but they came a long way. I'm a believer now. to me ,Coinbase rocks. Very easy to use and you can buy BTC and send right away so you don't have to deal with price changes.
pm me if you want a friend invite. you will get $10 in Bitcoins.

Mods : I don't work for coinbase, just trying to help some friends up. If its not ok to recommend a wallet, feel free to edit/remove my post.
 

Genera74

Active Member
29/12/14
379
91
28
Happened to me before. Understood its not TD’s fault so I went to bank to query about the charges. Bank explained to me that: 1) CC’s processing fee (2.5%?) , 2) CC’s currency conversion from my local currency to USD, AND 3) CC’s currency conversion from USD to CNY (CNY being a controlled currency). So there were a double conversion charges, with each can cost easily 3-4%, so overall add up to 10% in total.

Makes sense. So I stopped using cc
 

Redjack2k

You're Saying I Can Sell?
8/3/19
98
35
18
USA
I understand the frustration, CC payment have always been discouraged in favor of more secured way of paying an unknown source.
If you are required for any reason to use CC, a virtual CC card generator is the must have, your bank should have an app to do that for you.
This! Used a credit card with free ($0) foreign transaction fee and their virtual credit card generator. That way you turn it off after transaction goes through.

Initially it was a bit of a pain as my CC Company sent me a message asking if I recognized the charge. I just texted them back and all was clear. Then the purchase went through. Seemed straightforwrd enough.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk