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My personal 8 rules to build a Rolex Franken

mega12

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My personal 8 rules to build a Rolex Franken

Maybe this might help some of you being in the decision to build a Franken.

- 1. Never expect perfection
- 2. Consider availability of gen parts
- 3. Take most gen-like rep construction
- 4. Purchase your base watch at a TD
- 5. Stay smart and keep calm
- 6. Rep and gen parts doesn’t match
- 7. Do not invest more than 2.000€
- 8. Talk openly about frankening with your friends

1. Never expect perfection
Before you start, be aware of one thing: You are in rep business. Never expect perfection!!! No matter how much time and money you will invest, rep stays rep and reps are not perfect. Watches are tiny craftsman’s art. Even gens have little imperfections and as a matter of fact, reps will always have more variances than gens. If you are a perfectionist, you should stop reading and leave this forum.

2. Consider availability of gen parts
Chose a model where you can find more than one gen parts. A quick overview gives a short search on eBay and Chrono24. Maybe there is not directly a certain part which you require but if there is a variety of dials, hands, crystals and whatever online, this is a good indicator to find also your desired parts some day in future. Otherwise, if you go for a model where no parts are online, it might take you ages and costs a hell of money to finalize a project. Some good watches to go with: old Datejust models, some 5 and 6 digit GMTs, 5 digit Subs, some Daytona models... Overall, availability of movement parts for 3135 is quiet good. Typical crowns and tubes can be sourced easily.

3. Take most gen-like rep construction
Take a model which has lots of different rep variants, versions and rep manufacturers. Why? Because if you take a rather rare model, where you can find only one rep company / version of it, chances are rather low that construction is gen like, parts will fit and sizes will match, nor others might be able to support you or find lots of reviews online before a purchase.
For instance, an old Explorer II 16570 is basically impossible to find as a good rep. Or an old Turn O Graph... So these models wouldn’t be a good base for a franken, although there is some gen parts available for 16570...

4. Purchase your base watch at a TD
Before waiting an missing 10 sales on M2M and spending 4 months searching 24/7 online, just directly order your favorite watch at a TD. It works easier than you would expect and usually the watch is with you within 2-3 weeks. High requested models fly within 30 minutes on RWI. Don’t try to get them and waste your time. Find your favorite TD and order your stuff there. Trust me - It’s ridiculous how fast “regular” but high requested watches fly on M2M. Noob Daytona, VRF Hulk, ARF SeaDweller... all of them can be easily sourced from TDs, but some people prefer searching on M2M for ages and then miss the only sale within two or three weeks which is sold in 30 minutes.

5. Stay smart and keep calm
Be patient. Sourcing parts takes time. But never forget your original plan and invest in something just because you can get a certain rare part which has nothing to do with your project. I started some Franken just because I sourced a rare crystal or bracelet or whatever. And instead of finishing my original project, I Drifted away to lots of new projects... Sometimes, it’s also good to think smart from beginning. For instance, because of a lack of good and reliable GMT movements with correct hand stack, it might be an option to purchase a gen Explorer 16750, which uses same construction as a GMT 16710 and then change some parts only. At the end, you can have a gen watch for 50% of the regular market price.

6. Rep and gen parts doesn’t match
Whatever model you go for, never expect that rep parts can be easily replaced by gen parts. Apart from dials and hands on certain movements, it’s a gamble. Usually SH, VR, Yuki and SA will accept gen dial and hands. All other things are part of a game. Date discs, crystal, bezels, retaining rings, inserts, bracelets, crowns, tubes, basically everything else. Rep doesn’t like gen. And even if it looks like both constructions are similar, in 90% they are not. Of course, you might be able to replace a rep insert by a gen one but maybe it needs to be sanded first to fit or glued in. You might be able to change a crystal, but maybe you need a different gasket to make the retaining ring stay strong in place. You might be able to change bracelets, but maybe there remains a little gap between the lugs or SELs can be lifted up and down. You might be able to change a bezel, but maybe it won’t align with the case w/o cutting retaining ring down. So yes, lots of things can happen but for lots of things also some solutions exist.

7. Do not invest more than 2.000€
Most people tend to buy reps because of a limited budget and of course as a hobby. If everyone of us would have enough money, most would probably go gen. Of course, there is some Individuals doing it just for fun and for knowledge. But I would say, 90% doing franken because of their passion to watches and a limited budget. Therefore, never invest more than 2.000€ into a Franken. I think, it’s a kind of psychological border once you like to resell your watch again. Most people, investing more than 2.000€ and even more than 3.000€ into a rep will always consider a gen as a price competitor. So remember, if you sell a modded franken that has gen crystal, DateDisc, dial, hands and whatever but not a gen movement and/or bracelet, then you might lose the competition to a gen easily. Newer 6 digit gen bracelets are sold for around 1.500€ - 2.000€. Adding a gen movement, which is around 2.000€ - 2.500€ you will have probably 3.500€ to 4.000€ for two parts only. Means, if your rep costs 3.000€ and you add 4.000€ for those missing parts, you can mostly buy a gen at an AD, which has a gen case and warranty that is priceless. Of course, this is just theoretically but from my experience, this is what is happening inside your brain. I would rather save little bit more money and go with gen or search for another Franken which is cheaper instead of having such a low difference. For instance, there is some Bluesy frankens (16613) which are sold for 3.000€ - 3.500€ because gen gold bezel etc. is quiet expensive. However, if you are lucky, you can get a total gen for approx. 5.500€. So why spending 3.500€ if I can have a gen for little bit more. Most times the owner of such Frankens just build them because of their total passion, which is great, but selling them as a complete watch might be more difficult than splitting parts up again.

8. Talk openly about frankening with your friends
Explain people around, that you build watches. Thus, if you have little imperfections in your builds, everyone knows that it has been built by yourself and they would never doubt it’s genuinely. You can always use excuses like it’s used, or just not period correct and so on.

If you stick to that guidelines, I’m pretty sure you will love this hobby :)
And remember, time doesn’t exist, clocks exist. Thanks for reading.
 

QueTip

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My personal 8 rules to build a Rolex Franken

- 1. Never expect perfection
- 2. Consider availability of gen parts
- 3. Take most gen-like rep construction
- 4. Purchase your base watch at a TD
- 5. Stay smart and keep calm
- 6. Rep and gen parts doesn’t match
- 7. Do not invest more than 2.000€
- 8. Talk openly about frankening with your friends

Anyone reading this be advised that this is OPs PERSONAL rules.

1- can be achieved if the parts sheet matches
2- obviously
3- obviously
4- obviously
5- ???
6- obviously since two different things with a few exceptions you listed
7- bollocks, 2k won’t get you anywhere for some models
8- why? Nobody not in our hobby doesn’t give two f‘s about what you wear on your wrist
 

mega12

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Anyone reading this be advised that this is OPs PERSONAL rules.

1- can be achieved if the parts sheet matches
2- obviously
3- obviously
4- obviously
5- ???
6- obviously since two different things with a few exceptions you listed
7- bollocks, 2k won’t get you anywhere for some models
8- why? Nobody not in our hobby doesn’t give two f‘s about what you wear on your wrist

Obviously. That’s why it’s stated in the headline as „personal“ rules. Otherwise it would be like a recommendation for the best sub replica to go with ;)

Furthermore, I think this is rather a set of ideas which are more valuable for some having less skills and experience than you might have and for those who are just at the beginning.

1. can be hardly. Yes can be. But very unlikely for most watches and affects a reasonable price....
7. crystal round 200-350€, insert 100€-600€ (depends on model and if it’s not a hulk or tt), DateDisc 150€, base watch 450€, some gen movement parts 200€, servicing 100€, gen clasp 200€ - 600€ (if available). Maybe some gen hands 250€, brings me to roughly 1950€ if I take a reasonable average. You can also purchase a dial instead of a clasp or a case mod instead of something else. I think, this can make a good watch. And for sure, you can invest much more by purchasing gold parts or a gen bezel for a v9 (which is not needed in my perception)...but overall this will bring you to close to gen prices at an AD because of certain reasons I listet. and what I followed on M2M, expensive watches don’t fly that fast as Franken watches below a certain value. Again, just my personal opinion and experience.
8. not true. And not knowing about your environment. My colleagues, my friends, lots of people I have to deal with are interested in watches. And they like it a lot that I have built some and they ask me lots of questions and are really interested. Maybe that’s different to you, but who knows...
 
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QueTip

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Obviously. That’s why it’s stated in the headline as „personal“ rules. Otherwise it would be like a recommendation for the best sub replica to go with ;)

Furthermore, I think this is rather a set of ideas which are more valuable for some having less skills and experience than you might have and for those who are just at the beginning.

1. can be hardly. Yes can be. But very unlikely for most watches and affects a reasonable price....
7. crystal round 200-350€, insert 100€-600€ (depends on model and if it’s not a hulk or tt), DateDisc 150€, base watch 450€, some gen movement parts 200€, servicing 100€, gen clasp 200€ - 600€ (if available). Maybe some gen hands 250€, brings me to roughly 1950€ if I take a reasonable average. You can also purchase a dial instead of a clasp or a case mod instead of something else. I think, this can make a good watch. And for sure, you can invest much more by purchasing gold parts or a gen bezel for a v9 (which is not needed in my perception)...but overall this will bring you to close to gen prices at an AD because of certain reasons I listet. and what I followed on M2M, expensive watches don’t fly that fast as Franken watches below a certain value. Again, just my personal opinion and experience.
8. not true. And not knowing about your environment. My colleagues, my friends, lots of people I have to deal with are interested in watches. And they like it a lot that I have built some and they ask me lots of questions and are really interested. Maybe that’s different to you, but who knows...

I completely forgot there’s only subcs and gmtiics in the world. Where I come from 2k frankens don’t get you anywhere but being half assed pieces. Maybe that’s different to you but who knows..
 
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mega12

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By the way, I’m talking about Rolex only (as stated). Most of my builds, including upcoming Daytona etc. will stay around those limits ;)
 

mega12

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V9 3135 review has some updated pics to see different crown highs

Noob Explorer II is for sale
 

Micasol

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Interesting review, after dépend what kind of Franken you’re going to build, on Daytona think would be hard to be less than 2K€. A gen complete hand set in CL is about 450 to 500€ a gen dial is about 1000€ a gen steel bezel could be find for 600€, a gen new crystal 300€ so just for parts 2400€ add the donor watch 680€, at this moment more than 3K€.
And after there’s servicing movement, all job on case and band, on the movement do you improve it with gen parts or not?
Could be more or less depending what kind of Franken you’re going to, of course if only gen dial, or only gen hands or gen crystal, could be less, it’s always the same, prices build reflects most of time qualities and quantity of gen parts used for the built.
And on those days prices for parts are growing, especially hands and dials.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 

mega12

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Interesting review, after dépend what kind of Franken you’re going to build, on Daytona think would be hard to be less than 2K€. A gen complete hand set in CL is about 450 to 500€ a gen dial is about 1000€ a gen steel bezel could be find for 600€, a gen new crystal 300€ so just for parts 2400€ add the donor watch 680€, at this moment more than 3K€.
And after there’s servicing movement, all job on case and band, on the movement do you improve it with gen parts or not?
Could be more or less depending what kind of Franken you’re going to, of course if only gen dial, or only gen hands or gen crystal, could be less, it’s always the same, prices build reflects most of time qualities and quantity of gen parts used for the built.
And on those days prices for parts are growing, especially hands and dials.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

My Daytona will be cheaper and contains all the parts you are mentioning. Just a matter of time for searching parts ;)
 

VaderTime

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I think personally for me, spending about 25% - 30% of the value of a gen watch is a good franken. Not saying it will be super, but decent.

Anyway, great quick start guide for beginners like myself! Thanks
 
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RunningFast

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You are too easily overlooking something obvious to those of us who own genuine Rolex watches, the fact you cannot go to an AD and buy one. They are only available through grey market sellers for thousands more than retail. For that reason alone, your franken will NEVER lose out to an gen at an AD because it does not exist. Walk into your local AD and see what is available... Second, to many of us this is a fun hobby that we enjoy. I would guess there are many members of this forum like myself where we could go out and buy a few gens if we wanted to. Price is not the road block for everyone here, some people like this hobby because reading about it and working on these is a lot of fun. If I wanna throw thousands at a watch who cares? It is no one's business but my own and I don't do it to sell it someday. By the time I am done I will have spent a lot less than on one of my gens and have a better feeling of satisfaction out of the timepiece.

I appreciate your input but wanted to offer another perspective. I believe the amount of money and effort to put into a project is determined by that specific person. Everyone's motives are different. So is their skill level and budget so everyone should consider their own set of "rules". However, enjoy breaking them when you find a mod or part you really wanna try out:cool:
 

mega12

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You are too easily overlooking something obvious to those of us who own genuine Rolex watches, the fact you cannot go to an AD and buy one. They are only available through grey market sellers for thousands more than retail. For that reason alone, your franken will NEVER lose out to an gen at an AD because it does not exist. Walk into your local AD and see what is available... Second, to many of us this is a fun hobby that we enjoy. I would guess there are many members of this forum like myself where we could go out and buy a few gens if we wanted to. Price is not the road block for everyone here, some people like this hobby because reading about it and working on these is a lot of fun. If I wanna throw thousands at a watch who cares? It is no one's business but my own and I don't do it to sell it someday. By the time I am done I will have spent a lot less than on one of my gens and have a better feeling of satisfaction out of the timepiece.

I appreciate your input but wanted to offer another perspective. I believe the amount of money and effort to put into a project is determined by that specific person. Everyone's motives are different. So is their skill level and budget so everyone should consider their own set of "rules". However, enjoy breaking them when you find a mod or part you really wanna try out:cool:

Yes that’s true. That’s why it’s mentioned clearly that I’m only reflecting my own opinion.
And honestly speaking, I have gone the route to exceed my own “rules” and I’m passionate about both, waiting to complete a Franken as well waiting to get my gens from an AD. Both has something special. However, I recently faced reality again:

Try to sel a Daytona Franken because need some cash for something new (building thread linked above) and there is no single request on that because it’s simply above my “budget rules”.

Tried to sell a gen Yacht Master 4 weeks ago and it’s sold at a significant higher price level than my Daytona is.

Both watches I had enjoyed in a similar way.
One is instand cash if required, the other one needs patience in selling as well.
Although the price is 1/4 of an available gen watch.

However, this won’t stop me from building Franken and enjoying the hobby.
I new this and I’m not here to build and sell my babies. But sometimes if you have a new project in mind, it’s always cool to have some funds to realize it

:)
 

mech500

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I also have a couple of rules which I would like to add to the discussion, if I may:


****may not be applicable to vintage builds******


my rules in 2019:
1. Do not add gen Rolex bracelet/clasp/bezel ring:
it’s a waste of money. Chances are it’ll be a used gen that has been refinished using a kitchen scrubbing pad by some bloke on eBay. Will look shitter than a new rep part that’s been finished and precision machined polished by rep makers.


2. Do not add gen stainless crown.
this adds no aesthetic benefit and increases build cost.


3. Do not add gen Rolex movement. Draw the line here. The cost is just stupid. Use a VR 3135 for £96.


4. don’t use a stock eta movement with incorrect hand stack height for Rolex. Your watch will look faker with the hands closer to the dial.


my personal rule in 2020:
1. Add gen crystal. That’s it. If it needs more mods, then don’t get it.


my personal rule in 2021:
1. strongly considering buying a stock VSF and calling it a day. Don’t read posts by members who has intent on finding flaws with reps. You shouldn’t be modding watches in 2021. There’s no need. If the rep ain’t good enough. Plenty to chose from.
 

mega12

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I also have a couple of rules which I would like to add to the discussion, if I may:


****may not be applicable to vintage builds******


my rules in 2019:
1. Do not add gen Rolex bracelet/clasp/bezel ring:
it’s a waste of money. Chances are it’ll be a used gen that has been refinished using a kitchen scrubbing pad by some bloke on eBay. Will look shitter than a new rep part that’s been finished and precision machined polished by rep makers.


2. Do not add gen stainless crown.
this adds no aesthetic benefit and increases build cost.


3. Do not add gen Rolex movement. Draw the line here. The cost is just stupid. Use a VR 3135 for £96.


4. don’t use a stock eta movement with incorrect hand stack height for Rolex. Your watch will look faker with the hands closer to the dial.


my personal rule in 2020:
1. Add gen crystal. That’s it. If it needs more mods, then don’t get it.


my personal rule in 2021:
1. strongly considering buying a stock VSF and calling it a day. Don’t read posts by members who has intent on finding flaws with reps. You shouldn’t be modding watches in 2021. There’s no need. If the rep ain’t good enough. Plenty to chose from.

Haha agreed with most of your points!

However, I’m still a fan of gen clasps and gen bezels. They are definitely different. And if you get them new or unpolished, it’s really worth IMO

With regards to 704 crowns I fully agree. With regards to Datejust models, a gen crown could add a difference.

Re 2021 models. You are fully right.
Probably date disc and sapphire needs to be replaced. Rest is quiet good.

However, gen is gen.

I built a hulk Franken, replaced many parts by gen ones. Especially the bezel and insert made a huge difference. And then there was the CF and VSF releases. I purchased one of the latest v3-10 inserts. Next to my gen insert it looked so close. Thus, I sold my gen bezel and insert to replace with ARF v3 bezel and latest CF insert. Since then, I was not wearing the watch anymore. It is definitely not the same and I simply don’t like it longer. No clue what has happened.... but gen is gen
 
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Mr.pitt

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where is a good place to purchase watch hands, I have a GMF DJ 36mm that is visually excellent but the hour hand has some imperfections, it bothers me.
 

Docrolex

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Building frankens is definitely a hobby for many of us. But, like other hobbys, it costs money. Restoring or customizing a car, building a radio controlled Airplane or helicopter, you always know, that you will never get your money back when selling. Worst is when you put money into a boat, you will never see it again. Compared to other hobbies, customizng or frankening watches is relatively cheap. And, if you change your mind, you can always sell the watch in parts,,gen. Parts will not lose their value. I like gen. Clasps, i know they are ridiculously expensive, but if I should ever sell a watch, I would sell it without gen. Clasp, would sell the clasp separately on ebay. Just my two cents.