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What has the Rep. game taught me. What about you?

gunsmoke16610

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Took a little time to think about what the rep game has taught me. Here are my top three, what are yours?

1- Details: things I never would have noticed on Gens. before getting into the rep game.
2- Patience: shipping, building, research and correcting the small things
3- Cost value : Some of these reps are so good I will have a hard time buying another gen.
 

nalomb

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6/8/12
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I would agree completely with all three of those. One thing I would add is that reps have opened me up to brands I otherwise wouldn't have considered -- either due to price, questionable design or inaccessibility at my local jeweler. The low barrier to entry to reps makes it fun to take a chance and somehow can make a $100k gen seem reasonable haha.
 

Sedonut

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I keep looking at the detail and realize 99.99 per cent of the people can not tell a rep from a gen when on the wrist. I recently tried to buy a gen, received it from a major online gen dealer, that advertises on RWI, and immediately spotted a aftermarket band. My rep's keep better time than any of the 4 gen's I have owned.

I am beginning to believe it is foolish to spend money on a gen.
 

johnandtonic

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21/2/14
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Agree with all the above

When I first arrived here all I knew was that reps were purchased at market stalls, powered by rubber bands and to be avoided at all cost.

What I have learned is that the quality can be amazing (do your research) and not to stress the small stuff (I cannot remember the tells on my first rep (HBB V6) which I still use regularly)
 
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kamo

You're Saying I Can Sell?
9/4/19
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Completely aligned to all that was said above. here are my thoughts:
  • I am now considering the purchase of a PP 5711 :), a watch i have adored for many years. it will still look ridiculous on my "middle class" hand (arm/wrist??) but at least i do not have to sacrifice my family's future to get it :)
  • The modded (i do not like the franken term) watches are, in my humble view, admirable creations. to take the time to study the gen, develop the skills to work on a watch, procure the parts, spend the effort to install them and have the imagination to come up with own design is borderline art. Before people start going crazy about gen heritage, R&D, history, bla bla...fine, this topic is relevant to you. Not so much to me and is not the point here. Seems to me, the 21 century world does not agree with this line of thinking regardless of what we may think.
  • there is some fascination about wearing something no one else has. here i refer to the unique modded creations. I like that. a lot. Any buffoon with a lot of money can buy a Sub or PO or HBB. or even JLC and GO.
  • I love learning about details... i think i enjoy this more than actually owning the piece i am studying
  • and lastly, something perhaps off topic but i think quite important: how can people (i include myself here for sure) even contemplate paying $5/10/50/100k.... for an item that (practically speaking) only shows time and date when there are starving people, dying species, countries at war, lack of water and food, diseases easily cured in some parts of the world but killing people in others, etc. Wouldn't we all be better off shifting our mentality to channeling these funds to something which will actually improve the world. It took several years and a small fortune invested in collecting gens for me to reach this point. So i am to blame as well. I sold everything recently as i found no joy in keeping expensive items in a drawer/safe box. Also, i stumbled on a topic arguing fiercely that people buying/wearing reps should be ridiculed, publicly chastised and ultimately discarded as failed human beings. While i acknowledge the effort, cost, etc. that went into developing the craftsmanship, brand etc., i cannot in any way justify the prices.
i stop writing now and go get a sedative or something
 

DaleM

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I learned to appreciate authorized dealer service and the quality of a gen. Due to my taste in watches I am stuck to finding my watches via m2m and servicing my own pieces.
 
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Seefeld

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I bought a DJ about 12 years ago … I've never, literally never, had a look at the RRR rehaut or other particulars ! Until last year, when I (unfortunatly, from this point of view) discovered this forum…
That's say all!
 
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muiramas

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The 3 points mentioned in the OP, plus.

A ‘sense of ownership’ of some incredible brands and watches which would be otherwise unobtainable - Daytona ceramic, James Cameron DSSD, Audemars Piguet ceramic diver, Forged carbon - all aquired over the space of 6 months. Reps have opened my eyes to a whole new world of horology.

Being part of a community of like minded individuals who are always available to provide help, support and advice. I have always felt humbled by some of the knowledge many members of this site have, and their willingness to share that information with others.
 
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freediver

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Everything of the above plus i am very happy and appreciate my reps when i have them, because most of the time are in my modder or transit :p
 
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SCShrek

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7/9/18
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I almost laid down $8200 on a gen Milgauss two days ago. So happens I was at my jewelers picking up a gen Tag that had broken in less than a years time. None of my reps (about 12-13 now) have ever had any issues...yet, which made me think why would I buy gen. Add that to the thought of how many reps I could but with $8200 and I backed off buying the Rolex. Point is, even if you have the money, ultimately it's something that tells time, and as long as you are not a true collector, no one really knows the difference. Hell, out of all the meeting I attend weekly with executive types, I couldnt tell you if they were even wearing a watch, much less what kind. I long as you like what you have on, thats 99% of it. I even look at my gen Tags and Omegas with a side eye now but I bought those before I stumbled upon this lovely and addicting hobby.
 
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Omega703

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I LOVE opening a little brown box after the anticipation of several week’s travel across the world. Inside reveals a beautiful surprise that provides me with a sufficient dopamine response to last me until the next rep arrives, repeating the process.

It has also sparked a new hobby of building a workbench where my goal is to one day be able to service my watches without sending pieces flying across the room.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Fukaru

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I had a experience today, one of my employees came to work with his new Oris Diver (spendt about 1900€ for it) he was super happy about it. Of course I complimented his new acquisition. But I had a look at the watch and was wearing my Tudor Blackbay rep.....and my thought was.....I would never spend that much money on a gen like that. I have a gen IWC which costs ten times more than the rep, but I think it‘s worth the money or at least I can see the difference in quality. But honestly I wasn‘t impressed by this gen 1900€ watch, which shocked me a lot.


Gesendet von iPhone mit RWI
 
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palaufreak

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7/7/16
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The rep game has taught me to appreciate even more genuine watches. Although, there are some genuine pieces that have been repped so well that it's foolish to buy them in gen. I buy all NWBIG watches. Now on the other hand, there are gens that are amazing and are on my Grail list like some A Lange's, complicated Pateks and FP Journe's, that have so much effort and detail put into them that in my opinion are worth every penny buying them OEM and will never buy them in rep.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
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Usernametaken

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I almost laid down $8200 on a gen Milgauss two days ago. So happens I was at my jewelers picking up a gen Tag that had broken in less than a years time. None of my reps (about 12-13 now) have ever had any issues...yet, which made me think why would I buy gen. Add that to the thought of how many reps I could but with $8200 and I backed off buying the Rolex. Point is, even if you have the money, ultimately it's something that tells time, and as long as you are not a true collector, no one really knows the difference. Hell, out of all the meeting I attend weekly with executive types, I couldnt tell you if they were even wearing a watch, much less what kind. I long as you like what you have on, thats 99% of it. I even look at my gen Tags and Omegas with a side eye now but I bought those before I stumbled upon this lovely and addicting hobby.

I actually had that happen to me with a Tag, my third, got rid of it, then sold another, got an Omega, had an issue with it, got rid of it, running a franken no date sub ceramic now, already lasted longer than both without servicing.



Sent from the RWI App
 

Mrapplebee

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The rep game spoiled me. 10 reps in and last week I bought my first Gen. (besides a Rolex Precision that my grandad recently handed down to me). A Grand Seiko Spring Drive (SBGA373). Ordered it online and went to pick it up last week. I was expecting some kind of magical feeling with it being a genuine piece and hearing about how well built/finished Grand Seiko watched are.....must admit it was an anti climax. It didn’t really feel any more special in-hand than any of the reps I’ve ordered. Particularly my SD4000 from BK, my pam111 Noob v4 and my AP Roo Diver 9.5. (All of which will likely receive more wrist time)

It’s a beautiful watch no doubt and it is definitely a keeper. It Is intended as a heirloom that I will pass down along with my grandads Rolex to my two nephews.

But i I think it will be my only Gen. for me personally the feeling of wearing it is just the same as wearing my fav reps. There certainly isn’t £4500 difference in quality either.
 

Hinclimincli

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The thing is that, except for some vintage pieces, the rush you feel when buying a gen is no different to the one you get when the post arrives. And, sadly, it fades away at the same speed (which is actually quite fast). Then you are left with a nice toy and a hole in your bank account. I prefer having a small hole in the account rather than a big one, and that's why I go after reps.

On the general topic, the rep. game has taught me a lot about horology in general. Ten years ago I could barely distinguish a Rolex from a Hamilton. Now, thanks to the extreme attention to detail that this community have, I can have a quick look at most watches and tell you if something is off, if that "vintage" rolex has aftermarket inserts, if it's been over polished, hands changed, etc.

Another lesson I've learnt and probably the one I like the most is how to perform minor modifications/service/repairs. I have reset the keyless of some of my watches, swapped hands for new ones I like more, swapped crystals, sourced components for movements that weren't performing, not to mention changing bracelets and adjusting my movements myself. The rep game has open the doors to a way bigger world which is watchsmithing, and boy its a vast and really enjoyable world. My dad's Hamilton dropped and its datewheel went out of place. Well, I can tell you that being able to tell him not to worry and sort that out for your old man is something I will never be thankful enough. And this I didn't learn at watchuseek, I learnt it here at RWI so thanks!
 

centrum

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It is a such a great thread that this community needs more of.
Things that I have learned since I have watched the rep watch game (no pun intended) from 2011 are:

#1. Chinese watch manufacturing technologies are far more advanced than what average Joe thinks.
China has joined the only four nations that produce fine watches: Switzerland, Germany, Japan, and China. It is scary how quickly China learned to make watches by replicating the real deals.
The fine details you find in the decorated clone ETAs found in Patek Phillippe Nautilus and Aquanut are -- to be honest -- extraordinary for the fact that they are built by the Chinese.
The recently released replicated Rolex movements are scarily identical, but they have big reliability issues.

#2. Genuine luxury watches are very meticulously crafted with great attention to details.
I have spent thousands of dollars on rep watches since 2011 and held more than fifteen rep watches so far with different factories, Noob, KW, HF, ZF, and etc., and different brands, Panerai,
Rolex, Breitling. They are very well-made for $200-500 watches, yet the attention to detail is not on the same level as the genuine. Genuine Rolexes, IWC, Patek Phillippe I have had my hands on
genuine counterparts that were crafted with a full attention to detail.

#3. I am condoning the counterfeit business by purchasing fake watches.
I did not care about politics behind fake watches until my friend mentioned that, by purchasing fake watches, I am supporting the Chinese counterfeit business that is... not a very good thing.
I kind of feel bad when I think of this, but I at this moment, I just don't want to care about politics behind fake Chinese watches, but rather enjoy the products.

#4. There is a lot of money in the rep watch business.
Yup. I bet O.G. TD's on rep watch forums, makers, and the actual watch factories make a ton of money, at least 6-digits, annually. As a consumer, I wish there are more factories and makers in this
game so that the watch prices go down.

#5. Panerai was ripping people off until they developed in-house movements.
They make bunch of same dials, hands, cases, and other parts and mix-match them to design a new watch. Their profit margins must have been very high.
Now their range of watches only come with in-house movements. (Thanks for doing the right thing, Panerai.)

#6. The rep watch hobby is as addictive as drugs.
I am certainly positive that many other guys here can relate to this. :) These watches aren't necessary cheap ($300+), yet I am buying multiple every year.
But I get a great deal of satisfaction, so I guess the spending is worth it. haha

#7. Gold plated watches are going to eventually fade away the gold plate.
Too bad that I cannot buy gold plated reps, because I know what's going to happen to the case after a couple years.

#8. Replica watches are still easily accessible on the Internet today, because the Chinese government protects them from the back.
The biggest reason that the Chinese government is letting this game being played within their territory is to bring more (foreign) money in to the country.
However, as China is getting more civilized and developed, I am afraid that that China might get rid of this illegal business in order to improve its reputation and overall quality
of the country.

Which leads us to #9. We have no idea when this game will be down.
If China performs any action on this game, rep watches will be as inaccessible as finding weed in illegal states in the US. Now, we have no problem ordering watches on their online stores. But if China
shuts down all the rep factories, we might have only a handful of TDs who have deeper connections with the makers who can source the products.


Putting the political matters behind the rep watch industry aside, I have been really enjoying playing with this rep watch game. I got to learn a lot about horology and some parts about Chinese politics.
I am hoping that the king makers of Panerais -- Noob, KW, HF, and ZF -- pay attention to older Panerai models from the 2000's and produce them again. I really want to get my hands on the PAM 113 and 177!

Alex
 

gunsmoke16610

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centrum You have a insightful position on the rep game sir, great post very enjoyable to read. Thank you for sharing.
 

kelvinmd99

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Hi before getting into the rep game I have no idea what is an incabloc, what are pallets on the balance wheel, canon pinion etc... a couple of the initial watches that I purchased had issues with their movements and as a consequence doing research and reading has imparted an appreciation for the inner workings of the watch.
my goal is learn to service a movement eventually and doing it on a 120 dollar Miyota is less daunting that a gen movement.