The Rep vs. Gen MIndset

[Jim.Kirk]

Im a total newbie here. As I posted in another thread, I just ordered my 2nd rep- a Speedmaster "moonwatch." Did it all without asking one lame question on the forum, and I used every resource posted here. I applaud all of you. I also have a rather nicely-made Seamaster Planet Ocean rep. I guess I'm "A Speedmaster Guy." After a year lurking here, I find it interesting that nobody ever references why anybody would buy a rep and not the genuine article?

There are many reasons why we buy reps, but my basic opinion is that a watch is a tool; a method by which we tell time. As society has progressed, wearing a watch has also become a personalized statement; your watch says what you like, what your style is, how you look at life. Although the younger generations today (really anything post baby-boomers) don't view watches like this, there are still a few individuals in that group who DO love watches and horology. Celebrity watch lovers like John Mayer have brought a whole new group of watch fans into the fold- a subject for another day.

The problem is that all watches do not cost the same. So you can't truly express your style using genuine watches. There are plenty of folks who love Submariners but can't afford a $10,000 price (or more). Enter the rep world. It allows a watch "fan" with average means to wear the watch he or she really likes without the high cost. Ethics aside, it is the bottom line. If all watches did cost the same, a lot more people would wear Rolex's or Speedmasters.

Wearing a rep is not 100% the same as wearing a gen. But it's darned close. So here is my mathematical expression of the rep mindset:

95% satisfaction = (price of gen) x .05
thus 95% satisfaction can be had for 5% of the price of the original

------- so ------
100% satisfaction = (price of gen) x 1.00
Thus full satisfaction requires full price

------ which means that ------
5% satisfaction = (price of gen) x .95
5% is the tiny amount of additional satisfaction you feel when owning the real thing. It comes at 95% of the price of the genuine watch

So each person must decide whether that 5% satisfaction is worth the extra cost.

"Satisfaction" is fleeting but here I think it means the inside feeling you get while wearing a particular watch. It's the fun of having people notice it, or the simple pleasure of wearing a timepiece with a design that moves you; that causes an emotional reaction in you. It's like those replica Shelby Cobras. They cost $250,000 and yet they are fake; legal, but still not the real thing. And I bet their owners don't care that they're not driving the ACTUAL, hand-hammered, aluminum-body Shelby Cobra from 1969.

I love a rep because I can lose it, smash it, and dent it while enjoying what it feels like to wear the real thing since it is nearly identical to the original.These Chinese watches are actually pretty decent (let's be honest and say they are comparable to a $50 watch in any department store). People (who are NOT watch forum members) often remark and say, "Hey that's a cool Omega..." and I just smile. Remember that the only people who know a rep from a gen, are the folks on this forum. And even then, only the specialists in YOUR watch type would know. I wouldn't know a rep BREITLING from a gen, even up close.

And that is why I often chuckle at the folks here arguing over a 1mm spacing on a sub-dial, or a font where the "i" is dotted .025mm too high, or when the thickness of the watch is 2mm more than the gen. These differences - in the big picture- seem meaningless. Sure, they would make the rep even closer to the original, but since nobody knows anyway, who really cares? I don't know, it seems minor, though if that's your thing, more power to you. My Speedy reps are not exact; not even close. But Ive yet to find somebody who could tell, and I don't even think about the differences myself. I just look down and see that glorious Speedy dial, think of those space missions, and just smile.

And THAT's my feeling about reps. I'd love to hear YOUR opinions.

 

[GingerBubba]

Are you a lawyer?

 

[hartdoc]

Well for me it’s not about the money. I have a gen sub and gen speedy.

I buy reps watches I like, but think they aren’t worth the money. I.e. Pam’s

I treat reps like all my watches. I take care of them.

I don’t have a percentage of how much I like a rep or a gen for that matter. Even I like it or don’t. If I don’t it’s time to sale/trade.



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[stufuse]

Are you a lawyer?

Hahs


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[Jim.Kirk]

Are you a lawyer?

A Pilot.

 

[tripdog]

A Pilot.

Of the Starship Enterprise . . . ? A life Jim, but not as we know it.

 

[Rush]

Good points made.
Agree that in the real world, no one truly cares what kind of watch you have on your wrist (Let alone if it's gen or rep).

In fact, most people that I see driving luxury cars are all wearing smart watches.

Our own executive VP traded in his gold Datejust for some Apple watch

 

[kaddy]

In my opinion if it puts a smile on your face every time you wear it, it was worth it. Rep or gen.

I own several gen watches that have been repped to super rep status in other color variants than mine. I could franken the dial from my gen and sell the rest, but I get enough enjoyment out of my gen as well as my reps that I don't regret buying the gen. Would I be happy with a black dial rep? Sure! But I really like this sunburst blue gen so it's a keeper.

 

[GingerBubba]

As I've (mildly) taken the mickey out of your somewhat verbose first post OP, I'll have the decency to chime in with an opinion. To be honest, I'm pretty much in total agreement with you. Just in fewer words....

For me, Gens are massively overpriced, especially the non precious metal versions. The mark ups on them are crazy and unjustifiable, even when taking into account advertising, R&D etc. They're a fucking rip off basically.

They said, they are gorgeous looking, so if money were no object, I'd buy a hundred gens. Unfortunately, I'm not a squillionnaire so my choices are either buy say two or three gens and that's it forever, or, for half of that money, buy every watch I've ever wanted that, as you say, is perhaps 95% as good as Gen (at least visually).

So for me is a no brainer. Buy rep.

I even actually prefer some of the 'flaws' on my Reps compared to the Gen versions. Go figure!

 

[xray7]

Go NWBIG and be happy with your rep, whether this is all you want or you're building towards gen. My gen is coming before end of year (I have an indirect connection with an AD and that indirect connection buys A LOT of product for him, so I will be able to dramatically shorten my wait on a Sub... or I'll buy a birth year sub with all the paperwork, either/or), in the interim I've had something special from tripdog, tried a PAM (like it but not every day) and am presently wearing a TC with some gen on it which will be a bit more gen in the coming weeks.

Good points made.
Agree that in the real world, no one truly cares what kind of watch you have on your wrist (Let alone if it's gen or rep).

Tell that to two directors I know who wear about 100k in watches (Patek and a vintage Daytona) between them, whose job it is to seperate businesses from their money. The dick sizing over those watches with the investors is an every day thing.

 

[Jim.Kirk]

As I've (mildly) taken the mickey out of your somewhat verbose first post OP, I'll have the decency to chime in with an opinion. To be honest, I'm pretty much in total agreement with you. Just in fewer words....

For me, Gens are massively overpriced, especially the non precious metal versions. The mark ups on them are crazy and unjustifiable, even when taking into account advertising, R&D etc. They're a fucking rip off basically.

They said, they are gorgeous looking, so if money were no object, I'd buy a hundred gens. Unfortunately, I'm not a squillionnaire so my choices are either buy say two or three gens and that's it forever, or, for half of that money, buy every watch I've ever wanted that, as you say, is perhaps 95% as good as Gen (at least visually).

So for me is a no brainer. Buy rep.

I even actually prefer some of the 'flaws' on my Reps compared to the Gen versions. Go figure!

Agreed! (in fewer words).

Why, exactly, does a watch fetch $12,000 on the market? sure, the precision and the components. But there aren't $12,000 worth of precision components in there. Or labor. Or engineering. I just saw a Speedmaster "Tintin" (a real one) selling for $15,000 USD! Come on. Why? The collectors drive up the prices to the point where only truly high-net worth individuals can even look at those watches. I think that's a real shame. So we buy the next best thing. its simply market economics.

 

[Jim.Kirk]

Tell that to two directors I know who wear about 100k in watches (Patek and a vintage Daytona) between them, whose job it is to seperate businesses from their money. The dick sizing over those watches with the investors is an every day thing.

And I bet you could stick your rep right in there and the contest would be the same. They'd have NO idea.

Two friends of mine have Gens. Everytime we go out or do anything, all they do is look over their shoulder and watch what their own hands are doing so they dont damage it. That seems crazy. I fly bush planes out in the sticks and smash my watch on rocks and logs all the time. I dont give it a second thought.

 

[Tusubasa]

This is a really interesting topic. I personally find it difficult to judge the price difference between a rep and gen. I own gen sub, milgauss, OP, and some other brands like Breitling and others. If a rep would have made in Switzerland to same standard like in China, it would have cost 4-6 times the money that they sell on here, because of the labor costs etc.

I think it's ultimately depends on the cost of technology that it's became much cheaper and easier to reach with the help of the west in China.


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[Jim.Kirk]

In my mind, it's an interesting situation for the dealers and factories in China. In groups like ours, they have a particularly captive and rabid audience. One that doesn't balk at paying $500 for a rep. But, if it weren't for groups like ours, those dealers and factories would be forced to sell the replicas on the street or in selected stores for much less than $500. After all, these are really just $75 dollar watches, quality-wise. So, even though the TD's say they're not making much (and I believe them), I think they're making more through forums like this than they would selling them out of a van in China to the occasional tourist who knows watches.

The comment above that a PAM rep is ridiculously expensive is a case in point. I don't think a lot of folks outside these forums would pay $500-$1000 for what is in all senses a $50 or $75 watch. So groups like these help keep the dealers going, which keep the factories going. We get rabid over a "perfect" replica of a Rolex Daytona, and they figure out ways to make reps closer to the originals, driving rep prices up too. It's an interesting cycle.

 

[The Rod]

In my mind, it's an interesting situation for the dealers and factories in China. In groups like ours, they have a particularly captive and rabid audience. One that doesn't balk at paying $500 for a rep. But, if it weren't for groups like ours, those dealers and factories would be forced to sell the replicas on the street or in selected stores for much less than $500. After all, these are really just $75 dollar watches, quality-wise. So, even though the TD's say they're not making much (and I believe them), I think they're making more through forums like this than they would selling them out of a van in China to the occasional tourist who knows watches.

The comment above that a PAM rep is ridiculously expensive is a case in point. I don't think a lot of folks outside these forums would pay $500-$1000 for what is in all senses a $50 or $75 watch. So groups like these help keep the dealers going, which keep the factories going. We get rabid over a "perfect" replica of a Rolex Daytona, and they figure out ways to make reps closer to the originals, driving rep prices up too. It's an interesting cycle.

The best reps selling for 400$ to 500$ are not even remotely comparable to a 75$ department store watch. If you say this it means ypu've never handled one or are pretty oblivious to things such as finish and quality. I've collected many watches, major and micro brands, ranging from 200$ to 900$ in price and I can definitely say that at the same price point an Omega Seamaster from VSF or a Breitling from GF beat any other watch, be it a Seiko or a microbrand. It's not even a contest. These reps are just better, and if you do your QC correctly and maybe even service the movement you'll get a piece you can keep for years.

Taking one of your examples, try to get a chrono slimmer than 14mm for less than a few K's $. You won't find it. And with a Noob Daytona you can, for less than 700$.

 

[RTL2]

Excellent topic! I think value plays a big part. I like to wear different watches, just as I like to wear different suits. Buying reps allows an investment of reasonable level to access a selection of very well made different timepieces, which can be worn in different circumstances. For $2000 you can have an excellent replica Rolex sports watch, an IWC pilot chronograph, an AP luxury sports, and a JLC dress watch. Would I spend $2000 for these, yes of course, but I wouldn't buy all of them as gens for an outlay that matches a very nice car.

 

[muiramas]

This has been discussed countless times and there are countless points of view about it. The only answer is do what floats your boat.

Go over to TRF and say your Chinese fake Rolex gives 95% of the satisfaction of the real thing - they'll want to shoot you in the face / balls.


2 more things:

Because you cant tell the difference does not mean someone else cant tell the difference (Its not the difference which is important - one is real, the other is a cheap fake)

And the folks arguing over a mm here, 2mm there are the ones you need to thank for your fake watch being so close in appearance to the real thing.

 

[Repwatcher01]

Interesting topic. I'm new to the rep game, but for me (at this point), I'm avoiding the temptation to purchase reps of watches that I could credibly own the gen at some point (ie Rolex, Breitling, etc). BUT reps allow me the possibility of having the experience of wearing watches that I will otherwise likely never be able to wear, ie. Patek, Vacheron, AP. Also, where I can own maybe 1 or 2 gens at a time, reps allow me greater variety when choosing which watch I feel like wearing on a given day.
​​​​​​
What I'm not sure about yet is how I feel about super-reps, watches which the gen may be within reach, but the rep is so good as to make the gen seem like a ripoff. Is it still worth having the gen as a goal, or is that just bad economics? I suppose I'll need more time exploring this world to decide.

 

[Jim.Kirk]

This has been discussed countless times and there are countless points of view about it. The only answer is do what floats your boat.

Go over to TRF and say your Chinese fake Rolex gives 95% of the satisfaction of the real thing - they'll want to shoot you in the face / balls.

2 more things:

Because you cant tell the difference does not mean someone else cant tell the difference (Its not the difference which is important - one is real, the other is a cheap fake)

And the folks arguing over a mm here, 2mm there are the ones you need to thank for your fake watch being so close in appearance to the real thing.

All very true. I wont be stopping by TRF any day soon.

 

[Cr7juv]

Interesting topic. I'm new to the rep game, but for me (at this point), I'm avoiding the temptation to purchase reps of watches that I could credibly own the gen at some point (ie Rolex, Breitling, etc). BUT reps allow me the possibility of having the experience of wearing watches that I will otherwise likely never be able to wear, ie. Patek, Vacheron, AP. Also, where I can own maybe 1 or 2 gens at a time, reps allow me greater variety when choosing which watch I feel like wearing on a given day.
​​​​​​
What I'm not sure about yet is how I feel about super-reps, watches which the gen may be within reach, but the rep is so good as to make the gen seem like a ripoff. Is it still worth having the gen as a goal, or is that just bad economics? I suppose I'll need more time exploring this world to decide.

Very true. Some of the reps are indistinguishable.

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