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[CONSENSUAL LIST] Super Reps NWBIGs

melandri

Known Member
12/12/18
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Honestly I just went through several website's photos of the ARF and I don't see the coronet (crown on the dial) issue that was brought up in the 114300 ARF thread. Someone in that thread (can't be bothered to find it) posted the side by side photos showing the oval being noticeably more circle than oval. I looked up three different photos from vendors and none of them had the same issue - it's possible it was just one version of the dial they were using was off. So I guess my advice would be, compare the ovalness of the coronet to a gen when QCing. The other tell was the dial markers (for seconds) being too close to the rehaut in one quadrant, but people pointed out that may just be a QC issue and not a general defect. Finally the roundness of the corners for the 3/6/9 was not there. They were too sharp. But I wouldn't let this prevent it from being a super rep (IMO anyway, it's not like I get to decide these things). Anyway if they fixed the coronet then I retract my statement.
 
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Applicator

You're Saying I Can Sell?
13/10/19
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Thanks for taking the time to respond to my inquiry. Im sure others will find this really helpful as well considering the 114300 arf in both colors are pretty much the closest to gen OOTB without modifications currently available.
 

Omagad

I'm Pretty Popular
10/11/16
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Super Reps Temple
114300 by ARF is clearly a Super Rep.

You guys really think you can distinguish this with the naked eye? Lol, are you out of your mind?

If this could disqualify the 114300 as Super Rep, half the Super Reps would be gone. Most have tiny nuances, in marker shape, font angles, and things like that.

Let me quote the original post:

This thread is about watches that you should not buy gen because the Replicas listed in here are so good that the price difference between the GEN and the REP would NOT be justified !

Of course GEN will ALWAYS be superior even in the smallest way.


The ONLY way you could spot it, would be to have a Gen AND a Rep in side by side comparison, HAVE a reason to suspect one of them to be fake AND know what to look for. The tell is waaaaaaaaaaay to small to be detected "at a glance", lol. Wtf.

Remember who probably came up with the "Super Rep" term? ALE. He also made the best guide ever created for PAMs. Now go look at his work and see how many Super Reps have small tells like this one... (hint: almost all of them)

=> This will never happen.
 
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rayz20

Renowned Member
29/6/17
577
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Cartier Ballon Bleu 33Mm AF also a super rep.
Definitely better than the V6F.
 

Applicator

You're Saying I Can Sell?
13/10/19
72
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Cartier Ballon Bleu 33Mm AF also a super rep.
Definitely better than the V6F.

It specifies it in the list for the automatic pink dial but is it also applicable for the quartz version? I'm asking this because I've searched online and it doesn't seem that any authorized dealer for the gen online are selling the pink textured dial quartz version and they only have the white dial in quartz without the seconds hand.
 

melandri

Known Member
12/12/18
107
62
28
114300 by ARF is clearly a Super Rep.

You guys really think you can distinguish this with the naked eye? Lol, are you out of your mind?

If this could disqualify the 114300 as Super Rep, half the Super Reps would be gone. Most have tiny nuances, in marker shape, font angles, and things like that.

Let me quote the original post:




The ONLY way you could spot it, would be to have a Gen AND a Rep in side by side comparison, HAVE a reason to suspect one of them to be fake AND know what to look for. The tell is waaaaaaaaaaay to small to be detected "at a glance", lol. Wtf.

Remember who probably came up with the "Super Rep" term? ALE. He also made the best guide ever created for PAMs. Now go look at his work and see how many Super Reps have small tells like this one... (hint: almost all of them)

=> This will never happen.

That's fair - I'm new here and the only rep I've bought was a 116610 which has extremely accurate everything and I guess I was holding other watches too much to the same standard. Makes sense, thanks.
 

Sandrasekhar

Horology Curious
30/4/19
11
2
3
I greatly appreciate the NWBIG list, but, despite repeated efforts, I have been unable to correlate what I see in the list with what I see at the TD's websites, except in a few instances. I must be failing to understand how to correlate the list with the websites. Does anyone know what I might be doing wrong? Alternatively, in the NWBIG list could we just have a tad more info, something that makes this effort not only easier, but less susceptible to (my likely) screw-up? Thanks!!
 

Sandrasekhar

Horology Curious
30/4/19
11
2
3
Here's an example. At random, I just looked at the list and picked the "Breitling SuperOcean Abyss." I go to Trusty and I see pages of them (26 total), ranging from $118 to $348. I then go to PureTime and I see pages of them there, too (14 total), ranging from $1588 to $368. How do I know which one, if any, is a/the referenced one?
 

Applicator

You're Saying I Can Sell?
13/10/19
72
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I'd encourage you to use multiple TD as references for locating them. When you simply cannot, asking doesn't hurt either but definitely put the time and effort before asking.
 

Updog

Active Member
18/7/19
210
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You've gotta do a bit more searching than that bud.

Step 1. Need to find out the factory - which for that watch is noob I'm quite sure.
Step 2. Then search the forums for threads on that particular watch from that particular factory.
Step 3. Read the entire thread to understand what the flaws are on that particular watch and if they are acceptable to you.
Step 4. Email a TD about the particular watch you are after. be explicit in your detail about factory version etc... include pictures for reference.
Step 5. TD will get back to you with price and availability. Sometimes the watch you are after may no longer be available - some TDs will suggest a potential alternative - if this happens do a bit of research into the alternative see steps 2 & 3.
Step 6. Order the watch from your preferred TD following the forum guides and rules.
Step 7. Receive watch, post pics on RWI, enjoy!

The consensual list is not a list of 1:1 gen watches, but is a good indicator of high quality reps and the factory that you can get them from.

Hope this helps :)
 

acmcc

Active Member
Supporter
Certified
3/4/14
329
114
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Here's an example. At random, I just looked at the list and picked the "Breitling SuperOcean Abyss." I go to Trusty and I see pages of them (26 total), ranging from $118 to $348. I then go to PureTime and I see pages of them there, too (14 total), ranging from $1588 to $368. How do I know which one, if any, is a/the referenced one?

Its the $368 one, agreed the factory is not listed on the list or on most TD's sites, as you will see most others have the factory's listed.
Which others are you struggling to work out? As Updog says with a little work it is possible to work it out in the threads for each watch (But admitted you will struggle to find this one)
 

Thatwatchguy

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Supporter
Certified
9/7/17
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Here's an example. At random, I just looked at the list and picked the "Breitling SuperOcean Abyss." I go to Trusty and I see pages of them (26 total), ranging from $118 to $348. I then go to PureTime and I see pages of them there, too (14 total), ranging from $1588 to $368. How do I know which one, if any, is a/the referenced one?
You know by the factory.
 

chocolito

I'm Pretty Popular
12/9/17
1,661
860
113
Here's an example. At random, I just looked at the list and picked the "Breitling SuperOcean Abyss." I go to Trusty and I see pages of them (26 total), ranging from $118 to $348. I then go to PureTime and I see pages of them there, too (14 total), ranging from $1588 to $368. How do I know which one, if any, is a/the referenced one?

I believe it was the Noob Factory ( V2) like the other Abyss models on the list that was a ' super rep ' .. I don't think they are still made ( ?), you may pick one up in M2M .
 
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chocolito

I'm Pretty Popular
12/9/17
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" Rolex 114300, 39mm, Grape and Grey dial JF (now ARF, service is recommended)" Apologizes if this has been discussed to death, I looked back many pages and didn't see recent discussion on this. The "now ARF" part should be removed in my opinion. The ARF version is quite inferior to the JF version and the two are not comparable. The ARF is very clearly a replica at a glance if you knew what to look for, even when worn on the wrist and not in macro photos. The crown shape on the dial is a dead give away and not what I'd called a super rep.

Unless they have recently changed the dial ! Then the JF and Arf are the same watch just in different steel . As Arf and JF are the same factory . When JF switched their Rolex watches over to 904 L they marketed them as AR factory . They still currently sell their non 904L , non Rolex watches as JF .

DEFINITELY THE FIRST BATCHES WERE THE SAME WATCH , same SH3132, Same crystal , same dial , same hands ! The only thing that changed was the case and bracelet were now machined in 904L on the Arf instead of 316 on the JF .

They have a production line , why would they completely change the whole watch ? Get theIr suppliers of dials , hands , movements to change them ? Or change the supply chain altogether ? Arf is a production line they are not Rolex they don't make everything in house. They collect the constituent parts for the watch from various suppliers and then assembly the watches .

There is nothing wrong with the crown on the ARF IMO .If you mean by the shape , the circle at the bottom of the crown is wrong being slightly fatter and rounder , compared to a flatter more oval shape of the gen ? Then this is also a flaw on the JF ! However you really have to look , and unless you know to look then you definitely won't see it on the wrist .

I don't know if own the gen , have seen the gen on the wrist or are just looking at pictures . My wife has a gen , and I have both a JF grape and an Arf grey . ( I don't see any difference in the quality of the reps ) For me the JF/ARF 114300 is the best OOTB Rolex rep you can buy . It just isn't discussed much because everybody wants to buy a Submariner or a DJ and then spend a fortune changing bits on it . I don't agree with your assessment that you can tell the ARF is a rep at a glance . In fact I suggest if you want to buy a Rolex rep and fool everyone it is real ( as most do on here ) then I would get one .Some say the SH3132 needs servicing straight away , mine wind lovely and run great with no service, the JF being over 2 years old . The crown flaw I point out you wouldn't notice with the gen / rep . Unless you already knew of it chap forewarned forearmed so to speak .

Obviously I accept you maybe right about the dial NOW as dials , bezels etc change on watches . Suppliers get changed things get updated etc .However I have looked at TD pics , Gen Pics , my own watches and I see nothing wrong with the crown except the flaw I pointed out . Which has always been there .

Finally there isn' t a watch on this Super Rep/ NWBIG that hasn't got noticable flaws if you know what you are looking for as you put it . Most with a very quick examination, some on the wrist . However most gen owners don't know their watch from a bar of soap . It is more likely that people in the rep community ( for want of a better term ) will see them because they know the reps and what to look for . They also spend hours examining pictures of the watches both gen and rep .

I will give you an example the ZF BB red V4 on the Super rep list , is a great replica . As long as you carefully QC the watch, it looks gen on the wrist . However I can tell if it's a ZF in a couple of seconds if my eyes are working properly that day , by just looking at the pinion on the centre of the hands .

I suggest you reread the definitions at the top of the list on what constitutes a Super rep / nwbig chap.. This is also a consensual list it's conclusions reached by consensus. Just because one member who seems to have bionic eyes and a severe case of OCD picks out a flaw , doesn't mean it will removed from list . You describe the ARF as totally inferior to the JF . To ascertain this you would have to own , have both in hand to compare . If you did you wouldn't come to this conclusion . My guess is your appraisal has been done by looking at pictures , especially being as the JF hasn't been available for nigh on two years . However I accept I could be wrong .

I can't be arsed looking back at this thread , but aren't you the guy who has argued this a couple of times before ? As if he has a bee in his bonnet. No rep is perfect chap they are cheap fake watches copies of usually Swiss genuine watches costing $1000's if not $10's of 1000's . You get what $,< 500 gets you .

Finally you say you own one rep a 116610 and hold all watches by that standard ! You don't state which factory but I assume you have an ARF/ Noob v10 . Well it isn't as gen like as the ARF/JF 114300 despite your assessment that everything is near perfect . Your subby is an excellent replica but has far more noticable flaws ' if you know what you are looking for ' . That is why it is only classed as first class on this list , while OP is at the top in the 'super rep' category .
 
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