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New PAM111 winds forever,makes a slipping sound every xx winds. Please help with diag

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
Hello I just received a PAM111 (latest noob) from a TD and its having some issues - this is my first TD order and I was pretty excited. They're being very helpful and have offered to fix it if I send it back.

The watch does work, seems to keep time but the power reserve isnt good, maybe a day. The issue is when I wind the watch it doesnt reach the point where you get resistance and you know its fully wound. It just keeps winding and every maybe 10-15 half winds you get a sort of slipping sound like something is unwinding a bit.

I'm just curious as to what the issue is though and if its something that I can fix easily, as It would take almost two months to get there and make it back to me - and I'd like to have the watch for a special occasion. I would REALLY appreciate any help.

A little background, I took it into a Timpson (the only place around me by far) and when I came back the next day the man told me that
"there is a cog under there [the 2 winding gears on the bottom left] that has a broken tooth which is why it keeps slipping and winding forever"
Im just wondering if what he's saying is true and he's just taking a guess and if he even bothered to look.

Also if its something thats easily fixable is it something that would be possible by myself, I am comfortable with taking things apart and am quite technical but I've never repaired a watch before. I also have a cheap PAM that I could use for spares I guess if I REALLY need to (even though its a cheap one im assuming the movement is the same). Im hoping that its something not too difficult. Guess first thing would be finding out whats wrong.

Heres a pic of the Noob and the cheapie - seems to be the same movement (click through for higher res if you need):
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
Could he have been talking about this big wheel at 5:09 (6497 service video)?
https://youtu.be/Xnh7O22mduE?t=5m9s

Looking around and some people seem to think a broken mainspring causes this issue.....are they referring to the barrel when they say this?
 
D

d4m.test

Guest
Hi, it´s an interesting comparison pic, main difference really is the swanneck only and the better printing. One thing You could always do (if needed) is swap the movements, the parts are also compatible but it means taking both apart. There are tutorials on the taking apart here on rwi and Youtube.
As You´re going into this sooner or later anyway, pay Cousins.UK a visit a get some basic equipment like:
hand removal tool
hand setting tool
rodico
Moebius oil
movement holder
set of screwdrivers
aerosol dust blower
and so on.
Pros go only for the best, but for my amateurish tries I have found that Chinese and indian imitations of the Bergeon tools do the job on Chinese reps as well for 1/10 of the cost. Even a complete watch repair tool kit (about $20) from Amazon or ebay contains necessary utilities. Have fun tinkering around:)

PS: for opening the caseback a thick, coloured rubberglove from the kitchen sink will do the job. Apply constant pressure several times if need be.
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
Hi, it´s an interesting comparison pic, main difference really is the swanneck only and the better printing. One thing You could always do (if needed) is swap the movements, the parts are also compatible but it means taking both apart. There are tutorials on the taking apart here on rwi and Youtube.
As You´re going into this sooner or later anyway, pay Cousins.UK a visit a get some basic equipment like:
hand removal tool
hand setting tool
rodico
Moebius oil
movement holder
set of screwdrivers
aerosol dust blower
and so on.
Pros go only for the best, but for my amateurish tries I have found that Chinese and indian imitations of the Bergeon tools do the job on Chinese reps as well for 1/10 of the cost. Even a complete watch repair tool kit (about $20) from Amazon or ebay contains necessary utilities. Have fun tinkering around:)

PS: for opening the caseback a thick, coloured rubberglove from the kitchen sink will do the job. Apply constant pressure several times if need be.

Thanks for the tips. Would I be able to get to the mainspring on the 6497 without removing the movement from the case? .... Guess Im really asking if its possible to trade the mainsprings without removing the hands as those are really the only tool i dont have. I also don't have oil but as the watch it new im hoping I wouldnt need to use any just trading main springs.
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
Best take a look here in general, 1st thread could be related to Your prbl.: http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/forumdisplay.php/253-The-6497-6498

Was thinking the same also but after a proper read through looks like his issue is with the crown spinning back after winding. Mine doesnt do that...it just keeps winding forever and every 10 or so winds I can hear a spring unwinding quickly like a small whoosh. From what I've been reading around seems like the mainspring. But not sure I can replace it without removing the hands and I dont have a removal or setter tool and dont want to destroy the hands (especially the tiny seconds one)
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
Problem is most likely broken mainspring.

Thats what someone I found to fix the watch thinks also. They offered to repair the watch for £40 with a quick turnaround time.

How exactly does a mainspring break? Is this something that is usually changed every 4-5 years or should it last the life of the watch?
 

dragonman4

I'm Pretty Popular
22/11/13
1,633
69
48
Big Apple
Mine does something similar. Mine just winds forever but not actually powering the watch. Pretty sure after talking to Strodda its a broken mainspring as he said its not commen for the stem or crown to strip. I have a 6497 on the way so when it comes in I'll be sending to him. Unless I decide to try my hand at mvmt repair/replace haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ShiroTenshi

Mythical Poster
7/12/11
6,782
234
63
Thats what someone I found to fix the watch thinks also. They offered to repair the watch for £40 with a quick turnaround time.

How exactly does a mainspring break? Is this something that is usually changed every 4-5 years or should it last the life of the watch?

a brand new A6497 cost US$40 thought...
Its up to you if u want to send it back or fix it locally, or try swapping the movement yourself.
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
a brand new A6497 cost US$40 thought...
Its up to you if u want to send it back or fix it locally, or try swapping the movement yourself.

Is a 6497 the same as a 6497-2 which is in the PAM111? Also where are you getting the 6497's for that price I can't find anything close to that? (in the UK but as long as its shipped here)

And if you switch movements do you usually need to switch the decoration plates at the back along with the part that has the swan neck as it doesnt look like the movements come with those pieces.
 

chris3007

Mythical Poster
24/8/13
9,407
106
0
You need a 6497-2. Not a 6497 or a 6497-1. The beat rate at the 6497-2 is higher and the wheels and the mainspring don't fit between a 6497-1 and a 6497-2. Different size of the teeth.


Sent from my iPhone 6
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
You need a 6497-2. Not a 6497 or a 6497-1. The beat rate at the 6497-2 is higher and the wheels and the mainspring don't fit between a 6497-1 and a 6497-2. Different size of the teeth.


Sent from my iPhone 6

I don't see anywhere where people are saying that the 6497-2 is $40 US. The ETA ones are hundreds..... can't find any chinese ones.
 

dragonman4

I'm Pretty Popular
22/11/13
1,633
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Big Apple
If you're doing a whole movement swap I don't see why a 6497-1 won't work. I picked one up off eBay for $45. Higher beat rate doesn't matter much for the sec hand since it's so small. Unless you plan on constantly staring at it or something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
If you're doing a whole movement swap I don't see why a 6497-1 won't work. I picked one up off eBay for $45. Higher beat rate doesn't matter much for the sec hand since it's so small. Unless you plan on constantly staring at it or something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ahh I didnt realize when Chris said that the movements have different bits that its a possibility to just switch the entire movement. Thats great, thanks for the info.

What about things like the decorative bits at the back? including the plate that has the swanneck on it (according to the swiss lab teardown the "Balance complete with bridge and ETACHRON system" piece)? can that just be transplanted in place of the one on a 6497-1 so I can keep the look the same through the display back?
 

umirza85

Active Member
12/6/15
251
6
18
For a whole movement swap it's of course no problem if you take a 6497-1. But you can't swap parts between the 6497-1 and -2.

Here is s link where you can find Asian movements.

http://www.parniswatch.net/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=170&productname=


Sent from my iPhone 6

Awesome thanks for the link!

Also I noticed on this teardown guide at http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6947.html that it tells you 6497-1/2 and when a part is not compatible between the two it tells you 6497-1 != 6497-2. Does that mean any other part would be compatible between the two?

Though to your point a lot of the important pieces do seem incompatible.
 

pamlovaboriholly

You're Saying I Can Sell?
10/6/19
77
12
0
Is a 6497 the same as a 6497-2 which is in the PAM111? Also where are you getting the 6497's for that price I can't find anything close to that? (in the UK but as long as its shipped here)

And if you switch movements do you usually need to switch the decoration plates at the back along with the part that has the swan neck as it doesnt look like the movements come with those pieces.

did you figure this out? what was the issue?