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What's the point about franken watches?

Hulk Power

Known Member
2/4/21
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I'd like to understand without any prejudice or previous convictions what´s the advantage building a franken.

I know it will look better than the best rep but it is worth? I mean, the best reps are not good enough?

Thanks for your responses ;)
 

kadeee

I'm Pretty Popular
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To be honest, I was first inspired to think about Franken or SuperFranken by a Build report from this forum. A member reported on the conversion of a Replica Seamaster to a Gen but case Seamaster. All parts except the case were replaced with Gen parts, resulting in a fantastic Omega Seamaster 300 that was Gen except for the case. However, at only about 40% of the cost of a new original Omega Seamaster 300.
And not only had the owner fulfilled his desire for a perfect looking copy of his dream watch, the watch is just as accurate and reliable as the original due to the use of a Gen Omega caliber.
It was only through this report - which was also richly illustrated - that I understood that every replica, no matter how good, has obvious flaws that can be eradicated by replacing it with original parts. This is one part of the story of why replicas are converted to Franken watches. The other part of the story is that some technical parts (for example, the reversing wheels in the Rolex automatic module) are simply bad and this flaw can be fixed by swapping them with original parts.
So there are two aspects:
  • Visually (and haptically) getting very close to the original and
  • Increasing the reliability of the movements
My principle is that I want to get as close to the original as possible, both visually and technically. However, this effort is also no longer really cheap, but with this philosophy I can afford for the same money about 2 - 3 watches that a single watch would cost on the gray market.
 

Hulk Power

Known Member
2/4/21
113
5
18
To be honest, I was first inspired to think about Franken or SuperFranken by a Build report from this forum. A member reported on the conversion of a Replica Seamaster to a Gen but case Seamaster. All parts except the case were replaced with Gen parts, resulting in a fantastic Omega Seamaster 300 that was Gen except for the case. However, at only about 40% of the cost of a new original Omega Seamaster 300.
And not only had the owner fulfilled his desire for a perfect looking copy of his dream watch, the watch is just as accurate and reliable as the original due to the use of a Gen Omega caliber.
It was only through this report - which was also richly illustrated - that I understood that every replica, no matter how good, has obvious flaws that can be eradicated by replacing it with original parts. This is one part of the story of why replicas are converted to Franken watches. The other part of the story is that some technical parts (for example, the reversing wheels in the Rolex automatic module) are simply bad and this flaw can be fixed by swapping them with original parts.
So there are two aspects:
  • Visually (and haptically) getting very close to the original and
  • Increasing the reliability of the movements
My principle is that I want to get as close to the original as possible, both visually and technically. However, this effort is also no longer really cheap, but with this philosophy I can afford for the same money about 2 - 3 watches that a single watch would cost on the gray market.

Great explanation, thank you very much.
 
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p0pperini

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I know it will look better than the best rep but it is worth? I mean, the best reps are not good enough?
"I know it will look better than the best rep". It seems to me that you answered your own question right there. Gen parts are gen. Whether it's "worth" replacing rep parts with gen is entirely subjective - it's down to everyone to make their own judgement.

But then you ask another question, "the best reps are not good enough?" - well, you only have to look around the forum to see that clearly they are. For the majority of owners, reps are absolutely fine, right out of the box.

Building or owning Frankens is just another aspect of the hobby; it's by no means a prerequisite for owning an excellent rep.

I like to think that by Frankening a rep, the gen parts are being given a new life, and are probably being appreciated even more than they would as part of a gen watch.
 

Hulk Power

Known Member
2/4/21
113
5
18
"I know it will look better than the best rep". It seems to me that you answered your own question right there. Gen parts are gen. Whether it's "worth" replacing rep parts with gen is entirely subjective - it's down to everyone to make their own judgement.

But then you ask another question, "the best reps are not good enough?" - well, you only have to look around the forum to see that clearly they are. For the majority of owners, reps are absolutely fine, right out of the box.

Building or owning Frankens is just another aspect of the hobby; it's by no means a prerequisite for owning an excellent rep.

I like to think that by Frankening a rep, the gen parts are being given a new life, and are probably being appreciated even more than they would as part of a gen watch.

Wow, flawless response.
I am reading it carefully.

"the gen parts are being given a new life, and are probably being appreciated even more than they would as part of a gen watch"
Totally agree. They look like pure native gold crystals over a already stunning transparent quartz crystal's matrix.
 

Keishara

Daytona Nerd
Patron
25/2/21
581
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I've built a franken/superfranken. There's a few reasons:


- It was my grail watch; and that the rep was just not good enough. For my non grail watches, I tend to leave them alone, but this is one I wanted right. Like others have mentioned, many reps out of the box are good enough for most people. Unfortunately, it just wasn't good enough for me and the tells were all too apparent to me.

- To improve reliability and longevity. Rather than getting a new watch when the existing rep breaks down and be at the mercy of whatever flaws and pros of the latest iteration is, I rather just have gen parts all the way for my favourite pieces. I also like it when I know it'll perform the way I'd like the gen to, e.g no gritty winding noises, loose or noisy rotors or temperamental chronograph operation. Parts from rep factories are a complete lottery. I've had new pieces with anything from minor inconveniences such as date jumping too much or too little, to complete inoperability. I prefer to just swap the dodgy parts out for gen parts in new condition. Peace of mind.

- There's value to be had. Sure, you can't beat the outright cost performance of a stock rep. But if a rep is 80% alike, why not chase a higher percentage of likeness and operability for a bit more? (subjective, ofc). There's always a sweet spot. Personally I've gone past the sweetspot simply because I love the watch that much.
Personally I wouldn't build a franken that costs 50% of gen, I'd just save for the gen. However, for my Daytona, I've spent around $7k but have a massive percentage of likeness to a $45k and rising watch. That's still good value when it's your grail watch.

- It's a personal touch; a watch I can call mine. I have a few gens and while the dealership experience is somewhat special, I don't always chime with a watch. My superfranken was the result of weeks of research, months of waiting for parts to be available and at sensible prices, days of anxiety of whether or not things will arrive, arguing with ebay sellers, making friends through M2M. It was a long journey but it was my journey. Most the parts in that watch, I can tell you how it got there and what it does for the watch. For me, that's what makes a watch special and not just another watch off the shelf.
 
Last edited:

Hulk Power

Known Member
2/4/21
113
5
18
I've built a franken/superfranken. There's a few reasons:


- It was my grail watch; and that the rep was just not good enough. For my non grail watches, I tend to leave them alone, but this is one I wanted right. Like others have mentioned, many reps out of the box are good enough for most people. Unfortunately, it just wasn't good enough for me and the tells were all too apparent to me.

- To improve reliability and longevity. Rather than getting a new watch when the existing rep breaks down and be at the mercy of whatever flaws and pros of the latest iteration is, I rather just have gen parts all the way for my favourite pieces. I also like it when I know it'll perform the way I'd like the gen to, e.g no gritty winding noises, loose or noisy rotors or temperamental chronograph operation. Parts from rep factories are a complete lottery. I've had new pieces with anything from minor inconveniences such as date jumping too much or too little, to complete inoperability. I prefer to just swap the dodgy parts out for gen parts in new condition. Peace of mind.

- There's value to be had. Sure, you can't beat the outright cost performance of a stock rep. But if a rep is 80% alike, why not chase a higher percentage of likeness and operability for a bit more? (subjective, ofc). There's always a sweet spot. Personally I've gone past the sweetspot simply because I love the watch that much.
Personally I wouldn't build a franken that costs 50% of gen, I'd just save for the gen. However, for my Daytona, I've spent around $7k but have a massive percentage of likeness to a $45k and rising watch. That's still good value when it's your grail watch.

- It's a personal touch; a watch I can call mine. I have a few gens and while the dealership experience is somewhat special, I don't always chime with a watch. My superfranken was the result of weeks of research, months of waiting for parts to be available and at sensible prices, days of anxiety of whether or not things will arrive, arguing with ebay sellers, making friends through M2M. It was a long journey but it was my journey. Most the parts in that watch, I can tell you how it got there and what it does for the watch. For me, that's what makes a watch special and not just another watch off the shelf.

Thanks! I have enjoyed the read.
 

BoulderJ

Active Member
7/5/21
268
74
28
I've built a franken/superfranken. There's a few reasons:


- It was my grail watch; and that the rep was just not good enough. For my non grail watches, I tend to leave them alone, but this is one I wanted right. Like others have mentioned, many reps out of the box are good enough for most people. Unfortunately, it just wasn't good enough for me and the tells were all too apparent to me.

- To improve reliability and longevity. Rather than getting a new watch when the existing rep breaks down and be at the mercy of whatever flaws and pros of the latest iteration is, I rather just have gen parts all the way for my favourite pieces. I also like it when I know it'll perform the way I'd like the gen to, e.g no gritty winding noises, loose or noisy rotors or temperamental chronograph operation. Parts from rep factories are a complete lottery. I've had new pieces with anything from minor inconveniences such as date jumping too much or too little, to complete inoperability. I prefer to just swap the dodgy parts out for gen parts in new condition. Peace of mind.

- There's value to be had. Sure, you can't beat the outright cost performance of a stock rep. But if a rep is 80% alike, why not chase a higher percentage of likeness and operability for a bit more? (subjective, ofc). There's always a sweet spot. Personally I've gone past the sweetspot simply because I love the watch that much.
Personally I wouldn't build a franken that costs 50% of gen, I'd just save for the gen. However, for my Daytona, I've spent around $7k but have a massive percentage of likeness to a $45k and rising watch. That's still good value when it's your grail watch.

- It's a personal touch; a watch I can call mine. I have a few gens and while the dealership experience is somewhat special, I don't always chime with a watch. My superfranken was the result of weeks of research, months of waiting for parts to be available and at sensible prices, days of anxiety of whether or not things will arrive, arguing with ebay sellers, making friends through M2M. It was a long journey but it was my journey. Most the parts in that watch, I can tell you how it got there and what it does for the watch. For me, that's what makes a watch special and not just another watch off the shelf.

Would you mind listing the gen parts you have used in your franken Daytona? I have a Noob v4 Daytona which is at the watchmaker right now having a few pieces replaced (dial, hands, bezel). Thanks.
 

mrsullivan

Replicaddict
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I'd say frankening involves a special thrill also, there's a "sporty" excitment about it. On top of the above said values, the hunt for the gen parts is a big part of the experience.

Beyond finding the right balance between technical and aesthetical enhancements, this thrill makes franken watches a special kind of watchmaking, apart from "fake vs genuine" considerations. Not totally fakes, not gens either, they gather the best of both worlds (when build by proper watchsmiths needless to say).

I don't think there's a "who's the best" comparison to be made between frankens and OOTB reps (lots of them are amazing as is), they're just two different types of watches.

Envoyé de mon SM-G991B en utilisant Tapatalk
 
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thorne

16600 FTW
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There’s certain watches you’d be ok with as stock - they’re 95% there and might satisfy your OCD.

There’s certain watches you’d like to make improvements to - if you have the money, time, effort and most importantly a brilliant watchsmith - because they trigger your OCD.

Why would I make improvements to a watch that is already 95% there? Because it would always be at the back of my mind that I could.

Frankening it to 97-98% (from 95%) takes 100% extra effort and obviously mucho $$$$, and then it better be your grail watch cos you have to keep it - you won’t be able to sell it easily if you change your mind, unless you part it out.

I have a 1570-based franken Great White 1665, which is my grail watch. The build at this point has been worked on (over the years) by Legend, Aflop, Kilowattore, Phong, and Tripdog.

And I’m still looking to get a better gen-like dial - while it’s had an MQ dial, and now has a Ruby, they still aren’t close enough to gen.

TLDR: It’s a slow descent into madness.
 

FaberNewBuilder

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
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For me it was a vintage model that is not produced by rep dealers. Also, it all comes down to the model and brand. Depending on how popular the model is, there might be good reps of it. If it's not popular or an older model, there might not be a lot floating around.
 

Alan Bourdillion Traherne

Renowned Member
6/3/21
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CONUS
There are others who have touched on this but I would also think that the personal satisfaction one gets from looking at, wearing, and experiencing a personally frankened watch has to be quite rewarding. A guy who has a $15K Rolex can look at it an say "Yeah, I bought that." A guy who has a $1k franken (that is functionally as good as if not better that a gen) can look at it and say "Yeah, I built that."
 
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weezkid

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Building or owning Frankens is just another aspect of the hobby; it's by no means a prerequisite for owning an excellent rep.

100% - For me, it is all about what you want to put into a hobby that you have decided to pick up and be immersed in it. There are always costs associated with enjoying a hobby but after all, it is about doing the legwork, the hunting, the negotiating, the learning (achievements unlocked!), the installing and most of all, getting to know people from all walks of life who are into this.

I absolutely love frankening my watches based on the different facets I just described above, nothing is compulsory but you can absolutely ask experienced members for their opinions. At the end of the day, you decide what you like in wearing a rep. It goes without saying a franken with a genuine crystal//dial/insert etc will look better than the standard rep but how far you want to go into this hobby (or some say rabbit hole) is up to you.

For me, it's the journey to the destination.
 

Hesekiel

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Your question, as silly as it may sound to some at face value, is really a valid question.
In my personal opinion, Frankens are a slippery slope. When I read about someone who invested $7K or more into a replica, I cannot connect intellectually or emotionally. There was a member here, TheSociety, no longer active, who pursued relentlessly the perfect Franken, a watch that could not be distinguished from an original even by a professional. He focused primarily on rare Daytonas, so it wasn't a losing game after all. But doing this to a watch that is not that crazy expensive makes little sense. I sold two pristine GEN Rolex Datejusts with original papers, one with a white gold bezel, for $1,650 and $1,800 if memory serves me.