Why is RWI so anti-profiteering? Some potential problems and solutions:

[Samgobigs]

First off, this isn’t meant to be disrespectful, but I am genuinely curious as to why profiteering is so frowned on? At the end of the day, we are grown folks capable of making decisions for ourselves. If someone wants to buy a VSF datejust for $1000, and there’s a seller willing to sell one for $1000, why isn’t this allowed? I am mindful that everyone works hard for their money, but they should also be allowed to spend it as they see fit. This isn’t meant to be a negative post, but I have thought about this a issue and wanted to know more about this topic.

The other day, I saw a post on the sales forum that got nuked because someone was asking for ~$12 too much. I was left wondering why is this such a big deal? We have to consider things like currency differences and that shipping costs could be manipulated (to some extent).

For example, if someone purchased the watch in a non-USD currency and resells it later, it’s almost expected to see some currency fluctuation between that currency and USD (probably more so if Crypto was used to purchase it) over the course of several months. So why are people nuking sales when a minor currency conversion difference could probably account for this?

Shipping costs could also be manipulated to some degree. For example if one TD sells a watch for $500 + $35 shipping and another TD sells the same watch for $535 with ‘free’ shipping, what is the value of the watch? I think everyone here would agree that there is no literally free shipping and 4PX / DHL or whatever shipping service isn’t delivering a watch halfway across the world for free. For someone who trades frequently, it would make sense for them to buy the watch for $535 with ‘free’ shipping in this particular example. There’s also the ‘hidden’ cost of customs insurance that the end-user benefits from.

More importantly, it seems that the no-profiteering rule could potentially hurt sales when it comes to discontinued models. The number of models is small, but VSF sub / Datejust and Noob Daytona comes to my list. Judging by how fast these items gets picked up and by the low number of sales posts, it seems there is a large imbalance between sellers and buyers. By potentially offering these watches at ‘market’ price, we could get more sellers willing to sell them.

I have been wondering, if a TD is selling a NOOB Daytona for $1200 USD, but a member here wants to sell the same watch for $1150 USD, why wouldn’t this be allowed? Isn’t this a win-win for everyone in this community? I don’t care what the original purchase price was, just what the current market price is. I get that not everyone wants to pay $1000+ for a NOOB daytona, but for those people who do, isn't it better to have that option than to have no option?

I do think that the markets would also balance things out such that if the asking price is too high, the item wouldn't sell and it would just be purchased from a TD.

In another forum, I was offered a significant premium for my VSF discontinued models. I declined, but it left me thinking that these ‘back-door’ deals could end up hurting potential people who deal with dishonest people.

Another example where I think a reasonable mark-up could be justified is if it means getting the watch sooner. For example, if you are given the option of buying the watch from a TD for $500, or buying it from a member who lives close by for $520 and getting it sooner, which option would you choose? Some people don’t mind waiting, but other people are ok paying a premium to get the watch sooner and not having to worry about customs.

Anyways, having said all this, I thought I would present a possible solution that is win-win for everyone. Why not make profiteering allowed, but a portion of the profits (say 10-20%) goes to RWI? So by way of example again, if the watch costs $500, and sells for $600 on RWI, then $10-$20 goes to RWI to maintain or upgrade the website.

Anyways, I know this is a lengthy post, but hopefully, we can have a discussion about some of the pros and cons of this. Again, it’s not meant to be disrespectful, but a question I have been meaning to ask.

 

[Ecender]

opcorn2:

 

[Hesekiel]

There are many venues where a seller can ask any price they want. RWI is an exception. RWI is different.

We are dealing with a difficult merchandise, and as a community we protect ourselves from being taken advantage of. We have extremely knowledgeable members here who protect newbies from being scammed. It's a safety net, and I personally like that. If you've got a watch and somebody offers you more somewhere else, go sell it there. None of us has a problem with that. But if the buyer gets scammed, they are out of luck. Not so here. Here, as a buyer, I can be confident that the community is paying attention, attention to the product offered, its authenticity, and its price.

That said, I'm agreeing with you that there must be exceptions for super rare watches that are no longer available but in high demand.

Hope that explains it a bit.

 

[T3RM1N4T0R]

Simple answer
RWI is not a sales site
We are a watch forum that allows members to sale as a privilege and that privilege comes with rules we set

Wanna buy and sale at a profit please feel free to do so elsewhere

 

[JayBee0815]

The answer is probably very simple. We are a community that shares a common hobby. The possibility of making a profit from this hobby would not change the availability of popular models anyway. Just look at the Gen-Market - where popular models are now largely bought by "speculators"; people who don't wear the watches at all, but put them in their safe and wait for prices to rise further, then sell them at a profit. Is this what the "market“ with our Reps is supposed to look like? That's already partly the case - when you look at what prices are being called on Reddit, for example.

That's why it's so important that RWI not only doesn't participate in this madness, but also doesn't tolerate it in-house. Otherwise we wouldn't have the "rep freaks" here who are united by a common hobby, but windy types who want to make quick profits.

And a little „lesson“ in economics: You won't change anything at all about the imbalance between supply and demand if you release the prices. You can see this, for example, in the housing market. Just because the prices there are free, not more people get the apartment or house they want. The issue is a bit more complex. If you want to balance out the imbalance, you either have to increase supply or reduce demand. In our case, both is not so easy and certainly not the job of RWI ;-)

 

[dogwood]

Question apropos a specific situation regarding the Noob Daytona V4. Back in the day (pre-raids) the Noob Daytona V4 sold for around $600 (I don't know exactly since I'm new to the community). However, now the very same Noob Daytona V4 is being sold by various TDs for around $1200. I happen to have just purchased a Noob Daytona V4 from Andrew at TT for $1188. I don't have any plans to ever sell the watch, but if I ever were to, what price would I be allowed to list it for on RWI? Would I have to list it for the original "pre-raid" price of $600? Or, since I bought it after TDs increase their prices, could I list it for $1188? How would I prove to RWI that I bought it at a "post raid" price? If I were allowed to list it for $1188, then it's kind of unfair to require somebody who wants to sell their "pre-raid-purchased" Noob Daytona V4 for the $600 price they paid.

BTW: I love the fact that there's a no profiteering rule here. My reason for posting is because I'm kind of academically curious about how the rules would apply to this odd case.

 

[tripdog]

First off, this isn’t meant to be disrespectful, but I am genuinely curious as to why profiteering is so frowned on?

It certainly looks disrespectful - and patronizing too - because it shows you didn't make any attempt to inform yourself on the history of RWI .

The reason is because on RWI watch collecting is considered a hobby.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

It was explained very well by my prescribers (e.g. Jaybee). I can have too much time for people to die and sum up these questions:

- This is a private forum
- These are private rules

Accept them or leave the forum. But don't argue about it.
If a traffic light is red but there is no oncoming traffic, you stop anyway. We are a community where the money should only cover expenses, and the joy of mechanical replicas should predominate.

Very simple "If this then that" principle.

Take it or leave it.

 

[p0pperini]

I happen to have just purchased a Noob Daytona V4 from Andrew at TT for $1188. I don't have any plans to ever sell the watch, but if I ever were to, what price would I be allowed to list it for on RWI? Would I have to list it for the original "pre-raid" price of $600? Or, since I bought it after TDs increase their prices, could I list it for $1188?

Of course you can ask what you paid (or, a little less given it's a secondhand rep). At the new ludicrously inflated TD price, it would be a an HVS sale, so you'd have to get the sale pre-approved by a mod, and provide the mod with proof of the purchase cost.

 

[thorne]

Isn’t it great that RWI is anti-profiteering though?

Look at the gen world right now.

A gen steel Pepsi is selling at 2.5-3 times its MSRP. There’s over 300 BLROs for sale on Chrono24 right now.

That’s because a load of grey dealers (mostly, and a few private sellers) got them at MSRP, and are now flogging them for crazy money.

End result - average Joe who really wanted one, and could have been on a Pepsi list and waited it out, now can’t get it - so he’ll have to buy an alternative. Maybe another steel Rolex, but not the one he really wanted.

We don’t do that here. If you really like a TC 16610 LV you can find one here at almost the price it was sold at all those years ago, got to be quick though. If we were like the gen world, we’d sell a stock TC 16610 LV here for 2500$ because it’s an unicorn never to be seen again yadayadayada.


The good folk that run this place - and have done so for years - have the best interests of us, the average Joes, in mind.

 

[Tompa]

Simple answer
RWI is not a sales site
We are a watch forum that allows members to sale as a privilege and that privilege comes with rules we set

Wanna buy and sale at a profit please feel free to do so elsewhere

Verry good answer,


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

 

[dogwood]

At the new ludicrously inflated TD price, it would be a an HVS sale, so you'd have to get the sale pre-approved by a mod, and provide the mod with proof of the purchase cost.

Good point. That's a solution in and of itself. Problem solved.

 

[Samgobigs]

Thanks everyone! Again - I didn't post this out of disrespect, but just wanted more information. I wasn't there when these rules were made, but just wanted some context of the reasons behind them. I get the 'rules-are-rules' argument, but things change over time and unexpected events occur. I'm guessing things like police raids and cessation of model production weren't taken into account when these rules were originally made, but I could be wrong.

Anyways, buying and selling is a two-way street. Like a few other people, I'd be interested in buying a NOOB daytona at pre-raid pricing, but I'm realizing this is a long-shot. It's a tough pill to ask a seller to swallow to sell a watch for $688 when someone else is selling the same watch for close to double that. I was looking at the number of unfilled WTB - Noob Daytona posts, and I just thought about ways getting people to sell their watches. It's my opinion that the significant difference in pricing is why there's almost no sales of this particular model.

I also posted a specific situation of selling a watch for a small markup ($20-25) if it means getting the watch sooner to another member who is in the same country and bypassing custom risk, but it seems like not many people are interested.

Anyways, I'm not here to stir up trouble. Like I said, I just wanted to have a discussion of the pros and cons and seeing if there are ways to improve the experience for everyone and community as a whole.

 

[rolexwatchfan]

Like a few other people, I'd be interested in buying a NOOB daytona at pre-raid pricing, but I'm realizing this is a long-shot. It's a tough pill to ask a seller to swallow to sell a watch for $688 when someone else is selling the same watch for close to double that. I was looking at the number of unfilled WTB - Noob Daytona posts, and I just thought about ways getting people to sell their watches. It's my opinion that the significant difference in pricing is why there's almost no sales of this particular model.

And there you have it!
You want to come and post WTB, expecting members here to sell you the most sought after watch atm for TD price and quickly flip it here or there for a pretty penny?
Lol.
That is why, my friend - no member here will sell it to (Reddit) noobs pestering this forum for exactly the reason mentioned above.
If you really want Noob Daytona sooo bad, get it on Reddit. But don't come here and try to post a sale adding $100. $200 plus new shoes charge ('cause you've ruined the old ones on the way to pick it up from the Post Office) on top of $1100 you paid there.
The best thread in a while tho, thank you for good laughs. I needed this today.

 

[tripdog]

I'm guessing things like police raids and cessation of model production weren't taken into account when these rules were originally made, but I could be wrong.

There have always been Police raids, factories have always done small runs of certain models, they always frequently update all models, meaning some versions are more sought after than others, and factories have come/gone/changed hands since the beginning of rep watch production.

Nothing has changed, therefore there is/was no reason to change the rules on a forum that is about collecting watches, as a hobby.

 

[Art Tic]

I really like the RWI non-profiteering rule. One big benefit is it allows me to buy on a limited "hobby" budget. I just have to be fast and lucky to catch it when the watch I want is posted.

 

[Samgobigs]

And there you have it!
You want to come and post WTB, expecting members here to sell you the most sought after watch atm for TD price and quickly flip it here or there for a pretty penny?
Lol.
That is why, my friend - no member here will sell it to (Reddit) noobs pestering this forum for exactly the reason mentioned above.
If you really want Noob Daytona sooo bad, get it on Reddit. But don't come here and try to post a sale adding $100. $200 plus new shoes charge ('cause you've ruined the old ones on the way to pick it up from the Post Office) on top of $1100 you paid there.
The best thread in a while tho, thank you for good laughs. I needed this today.

Mate, there's a difference between wanting something and expecting it to happen. I'd love to win the lottery, but it's not something I'd expect (Heck there will be massive giveaway of Daytonas if this happened though). I'd like to be able to have the option of buying Daytona at pre-raid price, but realistically I expect for that to happen, I'd have to offer a little more to incentivize someone. I don't buy reps to flip them. In my original post, I had mentioned someone had already offered me a sizable premium to part ways with my watches, which I have declined.

All I am saying is that if there is a lack of sellers, you have to put yourself in their shoes and see the situation from there case.

 

[Tucker]

I used to respond to this question when asked, but after responding to it hundreds of times I just got worn out.

 

[citationcj2]

Simple answer. RWI is a members forum and for rep watch enthusiasts. People here share same hobby and look after each other. You want to rip someone off or py over the odds, you are more then welcome. There are plenty of sites to do that at your own discretion. Good luck

 

[MiMo62]

An aspect on this discussion!
I think change the base rule would rise the public focus on this community significant!
Especially in the mind of people nobody here want!
Ask yourself if this is your goal/target or however you call this!
The less publicity a community like this cause more easier life will be!
Ask our Chinese friends!!!!!