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Modding your PPF v3 or 4

topgear458

Horology Curious
10/3/19
21
3
3
Out of all of the 5711 reps recently I think that the PPF v3 or v4 are the best. Especially for the white dial. So much so it is under review as a super rep.

However, the fact is it has two more major flaws its bezel and crown. The chances of us getting a perfect Nautilus is nearly impossible for anywhere in the near future (unless someone has some sweet insider information) so modding is our best bet to get it close to the real thing.

The bezel is basically unfixable unless you get a new case. But I have heard that the crown could have the potential to be shortened and made more gen like.

Although I have heard of this idea floating around I have never heard of anyone actually doing it. If there is how and who did it and could you share your experience.

If not I know there are experienced modders in the UK and Europe anyone got any experience with this sort of thing.
 

Rainbowkin

Renowned Member
15/4/20
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1. The bezel, or rather the bevel, can be reshaped by a very experienced tech. I want to say the PF base's bezel and bevel are better than that on the PPF and closer the to gen, but not necessarily strictly gen-like. In this thread you can see side by side comparison of the bezels and bevels on the PF, PPF, and gen: https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...ppf-pf-3kf-gen The gen's bevel is so much more aggressive than on the others. While the PF bezel looks as slim as on the gen, its bevel isn't necessarily as aggressive - and if you want to make the PF bevel more aggressive, you will have to slim down the PF bezel even more, making it too slim. The PPF's bevel is minimal, but the fatter bezel leaves room for a tech to make the bevel aggressive like on the gen. Now, we will have to get someone to measure the angle of the bevel and thickness of bezel on the gen so that we can refinish the PPF case gen-like. By the end of the day, if I have the PPF, I would be obsessing with its minimal bevel rather than a fat bezel. A nice refinish and polish on the bevel really makes the watch shine.

2. Though not knowing how to do it, I know the crown isn't a hard mod. Case brushing and bracelet brushing and beveling are both needed to get the gen look. In the thread above, the PPF crown guard recess shape seems closer to gen. We will need someone who can measure how much both the PPF and the gen crown protrudes to know the exact amount of shortening the tube. In this thread, this is such measurement: https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...ble-comparison Yet I am not sure how accurate it is.

3. The blue PPF V3's hand lumes are probably too white, but I haven't seen the V3 or V4 blue dial in person so cannot say that definitively. According to my research, the gen blue dial's hands lume are almost always a touch more greener than the markers unless you take them under very strong light where both the hands and marker lume are white. The PPF hand lumes based on pictures I have seen are even whiter than markers most of the time.

4. Besides, the tip of the center pinion protrudes too much on the miyota, which can be fixed. It is very obvious on the blue dial but not at all on the white dial where the hands are painted black. Spongebob has done this mod.

5. I have heard that the lengths of the PPF hands are wrong.

6. PPF bracelet is thinner than the PF which is closer to gen. I cannot comment on how close PPF bracelet link's thickness to the gen. Someone might wanna try putting the PF bracelet onto the PPF case. But the PF bracelets are harder to come by than the PF watch, so in this case you might just want to do the PPF/PF hybrid mod.
 
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Cosmograph4Ever

This member is doing hard time, they pissed off the goat.
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Shaving nice bevels into the lug edges make for a big aestetical improvement. I’ve done it on my and clients PPFs. The last pic is pre-mod for comparison.
 
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Cosmograph4Ever

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Good to see you here man. I hope things are going well for you

Doing very well, thanks a bunch! :)

As for the PPF bezel: I’m experimenting with a lapping technique to correct the bevel angle and will report when I achieve success.
 
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Rainbowkin

Renowned Member
15/4/20
951
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Doing very well, thanks a bunch! :)

As for the PPF bezel: I’m experimenting with a lapping technique to correct the bevel angle and will report when I achieve success.

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sDSJs.png


Here is a rough demonstration of what I meant by their bevels and bezels are different

I know the pictures are not showing the watch cases in strictly the same angles or zooms, but here is a rough bezel and bevel comparison, inspired by what our neighbors are doing on their Daytona dials. In my opinion, all the 3 replica bevels are not aggressive enough. The PPF and 3KF's fat bezels leave some room for the bevel to be reshaped more aggressively. However, since the PF bezel width is almost identical to that of the gen, reshaping PF's bevel will make its bezel thinner than the gen.
 
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Cosmograph4Ever

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I know the pictures are not showing the watch cases in strictly the same angles or zooms, but here is a rough bezel and bevel comparison, inspired by what our neighbors are doing on their Daytona dials. In my opinion, all the 3 replica bevels are not aggressive enough. The PPF and 3KF's fat bezels leave some room for the bevel to be reshaped more aggressively. However, since the PF bezel width is almost identical to that of the gen, reshaping PF's bevel will make its bezel thinner than the gen.

What makes the look is the angle in which the bevel is polished. That can be corrected without affecting the overall thickness of the bezel. The genuine bezel-bevel (lol) / the polished area is at a lower degree angle which overall leads to a thinner appearance. This can theoretically be shaved to the same or very similar specs and it’s what I’m working on.
 

topgear458

Horology Curious
10/3/19
21
3
3
There is a lot of extremely interesting information.

So Cosmograph is shaving the bezel. If you do manage to work out how to do this would you consider doing it for members on the forum?

Also are we aware of anyone who has said they are willing to do the crown shortening procedure?
 

Blaithin

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/8/19
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3. The blue PPF V3's hand lumes are probably too white, but I haven't seen the V3 or V4 blue dial in person so cannot say that definitively. According to my research, the gen blue dial's hands lume are almost always a touch more greener than the markers unless you take them under very strong light where both the hands and marker lume are white. The PPF hand lumes based on pictures I have seen are even whiter than markers most of the time.


Can confirm that PPF V3 lume is yellowish-green to green most of the time, and the same can be said for the hour markers. Judging by my experience, they definitely use Superluminova C3. It is, by far, the only one I know that exhibits this yellowing - greening quality under normal light. It is very rarely white, but it can turn white if you leave it to discharge completely and pick it up freshly discharged...won't stay white for very long though. I don't think it's really a good idea to base off claims regarding colours without the rep on hand at least. It's also not entirely true that the lume has to be C3. I have friends who've bought [recent] gen 5711s that clearly have the white Superluminova C1, but the shift of Patek from C3 to C1 (the 5167 and 5164 received this same change afaik) in regards to a specific date is entirely unknown and cannot be clarified so lume is a huge non-issue.
 
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Rainbowkin

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Has anybody ever tried to get the hour markers on the PPFs smoothed out? When light hits them at certain angles you really see how roughly finished the sides are (it's kinda sawtooth-ey). I really think that's more annoying than most of the other problems because it really just snaps you out of the decent level of fit and finish that these reps generally have.

I am currently in contact with a local watch smith with the tools necessary for the procedure, but he's concerned that the hour markers are going to chrome plated so he might end up rubbing the plating off. I'd like some verbal confirmation if the hour markers are just plain SS or not so I can be certain on whether I wish to go through with it or not.





Can confirm that PPF V3 lume is yellowish-green to green most of the time, and the same can be said for the hour markers. Judging by my experience, they definitely use Superluminova C3. It is, by far, the only one I know that exhibits this yellowing - greening quality under normal light. It is very rarely white, but it can turn white if you leave it to discharge completely and pick it up freshly discharged...won't stay white for very long though. I don't think it's really a good idea to base off claims regarding colours without the rep on hand at least. It's also not entirely true that the lume has to be C3. I have friends who've bought [recent] gen 5711s that clearly have the white Superluminova C1, but the shift of Patek from C3 to C1 (the 5167 and 5164 received this same change afaik) in regards to a specific date is entirely unknown and cannot be clarified so lume is a huge non-issue.

Thanks for confirming the lume used on the 5711's. I am completely noob on lumes and thanks for educating me on that. I made my judgement solely based on seeing pictures.

Regarding the markers, I do think there is a risk involved. However, it is not something that hasn't been done before. I know people have had Legend refinishing their markers and hands on the dial, and also note the hand flickering mod (on Rolex and potentially other brand's hands) someone in RWG offers. In general, I agree that refinishing the hands and markers will achieve a closer look to the gen white gold hands and markets.
 

Blaithin

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/8/19
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Thanks for confirming the lume used on the 5711's. I am completely noob on lumes and thanks for educating me on that. I made my judgement solely based on seeing pictures.

Regarding the markers, I do think there is a risk involved. However, it is not something that hasn't been done before. I know people have had Legend refinishing their markers and hands on the dial, and also note the hand flickering mod (on Rolex and potentially other brand's hands) someone in RWG offers. In general, I agree that refinishing the hands and markers will achieve a closer look to the gen white gold hands and markets.

Thanks for answering my question. I think I'll probably just take the risk, and go for it.

Yeah, I bought the PPF V3 as more of a beater watch, and have since gravitated towards replicas instead of gens at the right time frame, no less (got an AP nicked prior though). It's got a multitude of flaws I've decided I can live with (except that one haha), but I loupe these so I know what they are. My gen 5711 pre-2018 blue dial is shelved, and so are the rest of my gens.
I have to say though that the blue dial Patek is actually a better buy because it's actually infinitely harder to call out imo. It's character is too dependent on the light source involved. I love the PPF dial for the same reason.

Honestly, I was thinking of upgrading to the V4, but because I personally can't tell if the V4 is actually more correct than the V3 I've decided not to. The problem with Patek's shots is that they're composite shots at multiple exposures with multiple light sources, and it appears that PPF [and 3KF] based their newest dials on those. The only way to get a true benchmark for the blue dial would be to go to extreme lengths and isolate one specific reaction to light:

1. Put one light source at a replicable angle (overhead maybe). Identify the brand of light bulb, and pray there is low variance in colour between bulbs of the same model.
2. Calibrate camera for accurate colour reproduction (not cheap). Do your camera magic (don't know much about cameras)
3. Calibrate monitor to reproduce the colours of the calibrated camera accurately

et voila you have an accurate isolation of exactly 1 of the multitude of hues that the Patek blue dial features

4. People on the other end must calibrate their monitors too (expensive af), and use your exacting setup to replicate it for their reps ad nauseum.

then we run into the problem where Patek deliberately wants every dial to have minor variances in hue, but they must at least follow the major hue (blue-grey is the major hue for post-2018 I believe, and there are three other major hues I am aware of)...and bam...you're no closer to when you began. Even as a gen owner...I could never really confidently say whether any rep was exactly correct, and that is the asset of all "generally" correct Patek blue dial reps. So the factories may have a point in just plain replicating the Patek website's colour because it's the one people will check as a reference, but with enough knowledge...you know you can probably just slap them with the same spiel I told you and get away with it.

^yes, I am deeply obsessive with all these weird tidbits of info.
 
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maison888

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I can attest to what you said, I had a hard time capturing the "true" color between using my iphone and Nikon. In this context, true meaning what my eyes see not necessarily a true gen color. I had to calibrate and adjust my white balance manually to be able to capture the colors below. As you can see the iphone's auto white balance can only capture the light bluish hue of the dial whereas the Nikon with was able to capture the "true" color of the dial with a very faint green tint creeping in. All shots were taken in ambient lighting, the only difference is the Nikon shots were taken in a completely black background.

Btw mine is late V1 batch which has a deeper blue to black gradient as opposed to the earlier purplish dial.

Nikon

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Iphone

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Blaithin

You're Saying I Can Sell?
6/8/19
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I can attest to what you said, I had a hard time capturing the "true" color between using my iphone and Nikon. In this context, true meaning what my eyes see not necessarily a true gen color. I had to calibrate and adjust my white balance manually to be able to capture the colors below. As you can see the iphone's auto white balance can only capture the light bluish hue of the dial whereas the Nikon with was able to capture the "true" color of the dial with a very faint green tint creeping in. All shots were taken in ambient lighting, the only difference is the Nikon shots were taken in a completely black background.

Btw mine is late V1 batch which has a deeper blue to black gradient as opposed to the earlier purplish dial.

That's really the gist of it, and thanks for the wonderful photos. I can barely handle a smart phone camera well enough to do even the iPhone shot you did so kudos to that. The one taken on the Nikon are excellent, and the hue is almost similar to the PPF V4 promo shots. Goes to show that the rep Nautiluses have come a long way by getting that effect down, and every subsequent colour "improvement" feels more like easy moolah for the factories.

It's really THAT difficult to be an authority on the blueness of the blue dial unless you've managed to have hundreds of these go through your hands for inspection. I suspect the same can be said for the AP Royal Oak's blue colour, but we do have Legend, and he has a more or less good idea of what these AP's tend to look like. We don't have a similar expert on the Nautilus though.

There are more onerous flaws on the rep that could be addressed, but this is just how the factories play ball. I'll settle with the good enough PPF V3 rep (and lightly improve it) until something monumental enough happens to warrant another purchase.
 
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Hertzen

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Btw mine is late V1 batch which has a deeper blue to black gradient as opposed to the earlier purplish dial.

These are one of the sexiest photos of 5711 I've seen, be it gen or rep (and I've seen a lot). Makes me want to buy one more watch to rest in my drawer, lol
 
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