The Value of Rare / Discontinued PAMS.....

[Woundup]

Thought I’d post this topic for discussion as I’m slightly confused about the sales rules and protocols in the M2M section. The rep world is relitively new to me through doing dillegence on a gen purchase and wanting to confirm it as so. The quality of the reps I came across along with this forum were a shock to say the least. I love the gens I have but many of the reps I have now get more wrist time.

Most of us here have a number of rep Panerai models on our wish lists that we would love to stumble across in the M2M section or have a response to our arduous posts and bumps in the WTB section. Many of these sought after PAMS have long been discontinued due to either factory closures or discontinuation for whatever reason (most likely sales decline).

Thanks to the incredible work of ALE7575 in his compelling and thorough PAM rep review and grading thread, we have been treated to a depth of knowledge regarding the accuracy of the various models and factories variants as compared to the genuine articles from a few years ago. I for one have used his thread as a tool in educating myself for a number of purchases and will continue to do so.

So to the point. Many of the Panerai models; be they graded super rep, first class or otherwise have not been available for purchase new through ourTD’s for many years. The M2M section has very strict rules which I certainly appreciate along with a staff of Moderators that do an incredible job of keeping our community safe from those looking to deceive those that are not educated, profiteering or outright scamming.

In my opinion based on a few recent M2M sales for rare/discontinued PAMS there should be more of a distinction between profiteering and actual market value. Why shouldn’t a highly sought after and impossible to find model not be worth more today due to its rarity than the original purchase price from several years ago? I believe that one reason we don’t see these rare models come up for sale is because the owners feel no reason to sell for less than they should be worth. A beautiful PAM308 just sold in the M2M section (likely within minutes or even seconds of listing) for the original purchase price - which was even questioned… I personally would have been more than happy to have paid significantly more than the asking price due to the fact I have never seen another listed for sale.

Perhaps being able to sell these rare models for actual market value would encourage owners to sell rather than keep them as box queens. It would be nice to see more of them for sale and give us all the chance to own the PAMs we covet.

I’d love to hear your opinions - perhaps I’m just overthinking it…

 

[DaleM]

I almost wish the mods could open an auction sales section. Or in sales id the watch as discontinued and note the asking price is more than its original cost.

The way things are now are smooth and I doubt the added chore of policing a free for all would make anything better on the site. I could only imagine the bullshit that would come from it all.

 

[GingerBubba]

This place is supposedly a friendly forum for watch lovers - with the added bonus that you can sell off your old watches at a discount if you no longer want them.

If you want to sell reps for more, then just start a new forum! It can't be that hard in this day and age. RareReps.com. You get to set the rules. Make it auction only if you want, whatever. There's nothing wrong with selling reps for more than you paid for them imo (aside from the obvious illegality), but quite simply, this site is not the place for it.

 

[pixel_junkie]

Thought I’d post this topic for discussion as I’m slightly confused about the sales rules and protocols in the M2M section. The rep world is relitively new to me through doing dillegence on a gen purchase and wanting to confirm it as so. The quality of the reps I came across along with this forum were a shock to say the least. I love the gens I have but many of the reps I have now get more wrist time.

Most of us here have a number of rep Panerai models on our wish lists that we would love to stumble across in the M2M section or have a response to our arduous posts and bumps in the WTB section. Many of these sought after PAMS have long been discontinued due to either factory closures or discontinuation for whatever reason (most likely sales decline).

Thanks to the incredible work of ALE7575 in his compelling and thorough PAM rep review and grading thread, we have been treated to a depth of knowledge regarding the accuracy of the various models and factories variants as compared to the genuine articles from a few years ago. I for one have used his thread as a tool in educating myself for a number of purchases and will continue to do so.

So to the point. Many of the Panerai models; be they graded super rep, first class or otherwise have not been available for purchase new through ourTD’s for many years. The M2M section has very strict rules which I certainly appreciate along with a staff of Moderators that do an incredible job of keeping our community safe from those looking to deceive those that are not educated, profiteering or outright scamming.

In my opinion based on a few recent M2M sales for rare/discontinued PAMS there should be more of a distinction between profiteering and actual market value. Why shouldn’t a highly sought after and impossible to find model not be worth more today due to its rarity than the original purchase price from several years ago? I believe that one reason we don’t see these rare models come up for sale is because the owners feel no reason to sell for less than they should be worth. A beautiful PAM308 just sold in the M2M section (likely within minutes or even seconds of listing) for the original purchase price - which was even questioned… I personally would have been more than happy to have paid significantly more than the asking price due to the fact I have never seen another listed for sale.

Perhaps being able to sell these rare models for actual market value would encourage owners to sell rather than keep them as box queens. It would be nice to see more of them for sale and give us all the chance to own the PAMs we covet.

I’d love to hear your opinions - perhaps I’m just overthinking it…

Agree with you 100%. I would certainly pay extra for new dead stock watches.

 

[Tucker]

Thought I’d post th

Perhaps being able to sell these rare models for actual market value would encourage owners to sell rather than keep them as box queens. It would be nice to see more of them for sale and give us all the chance to own the PAMs we covet.

I’d love to hear your opinions - perhaps I’m just overthinking it…

Members can sell their watches for profit as long as they don’t do it on RWI. However, if you get scammed don’t come crying on this forum. Those replica Panerai watches you reference are sold on other forums and in other watch groups. The fact that the main purpose of the RWI M2M sales section is for members to pass on watches they don’t wear to fellow community members at a reasonable price is what makes this place cool. If a member believes they have a “rare” watch contact a sales mod. It’s up to RWI Staff as to whether a watch can sell for more than the purchase price. It’s my understanding that only a handful of watches fall into that category. The problem is many members are unable to distinguish between a “rare” watch and a highly desirable watch. For instance, a TC is NOT rare. TC sold a sh!tload of his 16610, and they are frequently posted up for sale. The TC is a highly desirable watch...but not rare.

Who would decide “actual market value?” It would have to be the volunteer Sales Mods and they already have enough on their plate. I don’t think you will ever see your ideas or an auction style format ever get implemented on RWI. If a member has a watch that he is not wearing check the WTB section and pass it on to another member in the community who will wear it. I’m sure the seller will survive without the extra money they could have made if the watch was sold at a higher price. If the loss of a couple hundred dollars in profit does effect the seller’s lifestyle then he needs to stop buying and selling replica toy watches.

 

[mysterio]

As sales mods would say, the market dictates the price. You may think your watch is worth XXXX but the market will respond in kind whether they think it is. That's why I see threads going on longer than expected because of the disparity in perception. Then there is the inevitable challenge whether the watch is rare or not (trailboss has commented in the past about his displeasure in seeing "rare" being bandied about in the sales section). The sales section rules are both pretty flexible and at the same time robust in that regard. But an auction style format will never fly here and mostly in most other forums since if it were allowed elsewhere, this question would never come up.

 

[Raddave]

Not gonna happen ...

 

[nalomb]

I’ll preface my comments by saying that this isn’t the forum for profiteering off reps. That being said, I don't see it as worth my time to sell "rare" PAMs as the price I would have to have would certainly be a profit. Then again, I could also just be a greedy watch hoarder. Ask my old lady ...


Sent from my iPhone using RWI

 

[Keylog74]

Rare and reps are two words that don’t stand together if you ask me...

 

[sukwonee]

I personally don't have a problem with the market driving the price of reps exchanged here on the forum (not that my opinion matters lol)

But I also personally wouldn't partake in selling for more than I paid for.

I have, however, sold some rare sneakers in 2020 for more than I paid for originally and I have donated the "net profits" to 501(C)s. To me, this isn't really about ethics or morals but whenever money gets involved with my hobbies, I tend to lose interest altogether (it becomes work for me and work ain't no fun!).

 

[Raddave]

Problem is guys , for an example , and thi is a gross over exaggeration , but ill use it to make a point , some one buys a TC sub for say 700 , some one with deep pockets buys it for 2000 , , then gets tired of it and wants to sell it for 2000 because thats what he paid for it ..... not really profiteering , but this is the kind of thing we are trying to control

 

[pixel_junkie]

Problem is guys , for an example , and thi is a gross over exaggeration , but ill use it to make a point , some one buys a TC sub for say 700 , some one with deep pockets buys it for 2000 , , then gets tired of it and wants to sell it for 2000 because thats what he paid for it ..... not really profiteering , but this is the kind of thing we are trying to control

Respectfully, how does one go about determining the proper price of a watch before they list it for sale? The sales section rule 10 states that you go by the price you paid but as you pointed out above, that alone clearly won’t work.

 

[Raddave]

Respectfully, how does one go about determining the proper price of a watch before they list it for sale? The sales section rule 10 states that you go by the price you paid but as you pointed out above, that alone clearly won’t work.

It also states you cant sell a watch for more than what it cost new , so its a fine balance

 

[64TT180]

Indeed an auction that would not be bad !!! I am looking for a PAM372 and I have proposals for more than 450 dollars !!!
Okay well guys you can keep them !!!!!

 

[SHB]

Same here, got offered a 089 mint for 500usd (shipped).

After seeing the last thread where the user got banned I wonder if the price is overpriced or if it's fair.

Unfortunately I don't want to buy something off the forum but even if I agree for the offered price the sales won't be allowed.

 

[Woundup]

There has been some interesting thoughts posted above - obviously there are a few points of opinion regarding the topic.

Please note that my original post was not made with any thought of selling my current watches (I am yet to sell a watch). I also very much appreciate the diligent efforts of the Sales Moderators and would not wish more work for them in the form of any kind of 'auction' section - that would likely become a nightmare very quickly.

My thought on the sale of a rare watch in the M2M section would be to allow anyone the ability to post a watch for whatever price they want - stating it as a 'market value listing'. They would be afforded 24 hours before a Moderator questions the price; if an interested buyer replies stating that they are willing to pay the sellers asking price, then the sale goes green. From my experience here, the rare ones are spoken for within an hour.

I may be wrong, though this method does not seem like more work for the Moderators - maybe even less as they would not need to spend the time researching original TD pricing...

 

[mskwatch]

I almost wish the mods could open an auction sales section. Or in sales id the watch as discontinued and note the asking price is more than its original cost.

The way things are now are smooth and I doubt the added chore of policing a free for all would make anything better on the site. I could only imagine the bullshit that would come from it all.

that's a good point, auctions with a % donated to RWI so everyone is happy

 

[tripdog]

Auctions - what a great idea.

Just think of all the fun the scammers will have with that.

 

[SHB]

What about fake bidding just like ebay?

This system would be abused.