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{*PC TEAM*} Three kinds of lies - Panerai caught out once again

elconquistador

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How did they expect to get away with this.,.. again

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Gtmatt22

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I still will buy some Pam reps but this does turn me off the gen.


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Hesekiel

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I can buy a vintage Ferrari, Maserati, or Lamborghini, and hope the engine never needs attention as that would kill my retirement fund, or I buy an Iso Grifo, Jensen Interceptor, Italia, Bristol, or other super-sexy exotic that's powered by a Chevy or Ford V8.

Same with Panerai. I personally would prefer closed casebacks and power coming from a solid-as-a-rock Swiss ETA movement.
 

easy_beaching

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I really do not understand how they don't think this will be detrimental to their brand. They must truly rely on the fact that their customer base does not understand the technical aspects of the inner workings of their product and buy just based on looks alone.
 
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trailboss99

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They must truly rely on the fact that their customer base does not understand the technical aspects of the inner workings of their product and buy just based on looks alone.

And for almost any brand that is probably least true of Panerai whose main sales base are enthusiasts. To expect that is like expecting a Morgan buyer not to be well informed about the history of the brand and the ins and outs of the vehicle.
 

trailboss99

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How did they expect to get away with this.,.. again

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That's not the point, the point is that they lied and that they have a $300 movement in a 27 grand watch. Also, if you read the second article their "Ferarri" engine is about as well built as that of a Chinese home market delivery truck. Pressed steel pallet forks, WTF?
 
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P..DR..D

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Very interesting Sir, thank you for sharing.

2 very good reads, a great summary on YouTube, and I also spent some time googling previous scandals, quite the rabbit hole.

How they thought they could get away with calling it a display caseback when it was completely opaque is just baffling.

"Obviously Panerai does not want their customers to study the wonderful d-ETA-ils of their exquisite P.9200 “in-house” movement while at the same time being too stingy to simply equip the watch with a solid caseback." :rimshot:

The Salesperson's choice of words when queried was also very suspect: "We 'consider' it in-house".

I can "consider" myself God's gift to all women, doesn't make it any more true :crazy:

Makes me all the more grateful for finding RWI when I look at the 2 PAM replicas I have, after only spending ~2% of the price.

The question remains really as to how much real damage will this do? Maybe in the age we're in it'll all be forgotten in a few months :eek:hwell:
 

GrandmasterChime

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Plaasbaas

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Thank you for sharing, this is very educational indeed. I have learnt so much from these articles and have to admit that I had not yet read up about Panerai's history before.

Any gen owner must feel scammed. As a rep owner I have now learnt, that I own chinese made replicas of french made replicas of swiss vintage Rolex watches - featuring a unique crown guard. And that I probably paid a fair value in terms of value for money.

Again, thank you very much, that has been a great read.
 
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shyreplover

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Now I understand why Dandong can make a beautiful clone of 4130 but not P9000. It is because they try to lower the quality setting to the minimum and still can't match the crappiness of P9000. So they gave up.
 

Hesekiel

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And for almost any brand that is probably least true of Panerai whose main sales base are enthusiasts. To expect that is like expecting a Morgan buyer not to be well informed about the history of the brand and the ins and outs of the vehicle.


Morgan buyers know that power comes from a Ford, Alfa Romeo, Triumph, or Rover engine -- lately even BMW -- and they don't complain that there's no fancy but unreliable in-house Morgan powerplant under the hood (bonnet). Driving a Morgan is not primarily about the engine, and wearing a Panerai is not primarily about the movement either. And don't get me started on Cartier . . .
 

kilowattore

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As someone who was there when Josè was an active part of the homage community and followed his entire career I will just say I don't like him and his behaviour. I don't like the way his articles are unnecessarily biased and unfair, always looking for the next big fraud and trying to make as much noise as possible in order to attract views.

I agree 200% on confronting Panerai Vendome about his marketing and false claims. Panerai doesn't need and doesn't deserve such poor behaviour, besides there is really nothing out of the ordinary in having ETA based movements inside expensive watches. Ultimately market will decide but it's sellers's duty to give customers the elements needed for an informed decision.

I disagree 200% on his view of the Panerai history and hate when he states Panerai were Rolex watches. They weren't, they were Panerai watches made by Rolex just like my old Saab had a GM engine in it and a lot of parts made in the most disparate factories all around the world.
G. Panerai e Figlio was born a small watch reseller who later developed some instruments for the Marina Militare. Due to this relationship the fascist regime placed an order with them for a number of watches and gave them a very short time frame to fulfill it. War was in the air and fascists were no people to joke with . Panerai did not have to needed machining tools at that time so they asked Rolex to help making their idea become reality.
They had the idea of making a wristwatch out of a pocket watch. They had the idea of fitting a radium filled dial inside the watch so it would have been possible to read the time underwater and in the dark. A product bears the brand of whom had the idea to make it, who invented it, not who phisically made it. That is just my opinion of course, I don't want to pass it as the absolute truth like others do.
 

KOT1917

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I fully agree with the unapproachable fact of misinformation on the part of panerai. It doesn't have to be that way.

Secondly, it should be noted the general blurring of facts (In particular, manufacture), as on the part of panerai (the example of P.900, mentioned in the article, happened earlier, and for no one it mattered, because there was no resonant article), and other brands.

Thirdly, modern panerai all of their history are the center of discussion of how a certain ETA 1234 can be sold for XYZ $, and despite all the pros and cons, the watch has been sold and is being sold.

In general, when it comes to price, this has always been a sensitive issue, and management has always taken advantage of the high secondary price of many models to drive up the primary prices. The PAM225 is one of the most expensive 7750 models imaginable, and probably one of the most sought after.

From this, personally, I think that for fans of the brand as a whole, the origins of the movement are not so important.

At the same time, PANERAI does everything to expand its sphere of polishing, and sells many models that do not fall into the connoisseurs of connoisseurs. Generally speaking, I believe that most of these chronographs on the P.9200 are about them.
For me, as long as there are serious "manufactory" chrono, for example P.9100 or p.2004 (I call it what the brand calls it), it’s important for someone, or OPXII for ETA connoisseurs, and the difference in price between them is quite significant.

So the subjective value for the consumer is a complex and relative issue that requires a lot of data, and most likely the brand management has an ion.

And those who do not appreciate this particular brand, do not have experience and knowledge in movt., And do not betray their meaning, for the sake of only the stylistic component - this is the target audience that panerai wants to collect, and it seems they succeed.
 
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PAM_BOY

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As someone who was there when Josè was an active part of the homage community and followed his entire career I will just say I don't like him and his behaviour. I don't like the way his articles are unnecessarily biased and unfair, always looking for the next big fraud and trying to make as much noise as possible in order to attract views.

I agree 200% on confronting Panerai Vendome about his marketing and false claims. Panerai doesn't need and doesn't deserve such poor behaviour, besides there is really nothing out of the ordinary in having ETA based movements inside expensive watches. Ultimately market will decide but it's sellers's duty to give customers the elements needed for an informed decision.

I disagree 200% on his view of the Panerai history and hate when he states Panerai were Rolex watches. They weren't, they were Panerai watches made by Rolex just like my old Saab had a GM engine in it and a lot of parts made in the most disparate factories all around the world.
G. Panerai e Figlio was born a small watch reseller who later developed some instruments for the Marina Militare. Due to this relationship the fascist regime placed an order with them for a number of watches and gave them a very short time frame to fulfill it. War was in the air and fascists were no people to joke with . Panerai did not have to needed machining tools at that time so they asked Rolex to help making their idea become reality.
They had the idea of making a wristwatch out of a pocket watch. They had the idea of fitting a radium filled dial inside the watch so it would have been possible to read the time underwater and in the dark. A product bears the brand of whom had the idea to make it, who invented it, not who phisically made it. That is just my opinion of course, I don't want to pass it as the absolute truth like others do.

Nothing to add
 

p0pperini

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How did they expect to get away with this.,.. again

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They’ve been getting away with it for years. And they’ll continue to.

I admire the history of Panerai. And I love the strong visual and functional design ethos.

But I also get the strong impression that the company has been led by some pretty unscrupulous types in its latter years, who have been perfectly happy to cut corners, cheat their customers and lie.

Admittedly, I’ve mainly gained this impression from reading Perezcope articles - although I see no reason to disbelieve what seems to me to be diligent investigative journalism.


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ALE7575

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Many thanks trailboss99 for the publication of this interesting thread

I totally agree with you that this is a big lie and one of the worst possible.

Effectively, the manufacturers of the movements are companies of the Richemont group to which Panerai belongs and this will be the only escape route that Panerai has to "defend" its position and lies. But this is not enough, because Panerai is deceiving customers who have trusted them, since many of them buy their Panerai with the idea that the movement included is exclusively manufactured and expressly created and manufactured for their Panerai.

As if that were not enough, the quality of some components is below what can be expected even from a standard quality movement. Which is very serious for a supposedly luxury brand.

The name change of the OPXXXIV movement to P.900 was a really strange modification and I would say almost fraudulent, because Panerai had always named its “in-house” movements with a letter "P" in front, while "OP" was reserved for movements bought in the Exterior. I was quite astonished myself and came to think that the P.900 was different from the OPXXXIV, which has obviously been shown not to be the case. As a curious fact, I will say that Panerai has already removed the P.900 caliber from its official website.

The history of the evolution of the PAM1111 caseback display is highly indicative of the level of concealment that PANERAI has been forced to do to divert the public's attention from the actual content inside the watch.

I also agree with you that an important source of Panerai purchases are brand enthusiasts, who will be disappointed or at least discouraged by this situation. But there are also a series of fans of the brand, who as KOT1917 says: "I think that for fans of the brand as a whole, the origins of the movement are not so important"

I consider inadmissible the instructions given to sellers regarding not revealing the true origin of these alleged "in-house" movements. And it's not reliable in a brand that pretends to be it.

Within the Richemont group, it is not only Panerai that lies, since this matter also extends to Cartier, IWC, Piaget, VC ... As I have said before, it is true that almost everything is designed and manufactured within the group, and that will be its final defense if the matter becomes more serious, but what they really make the customer see is that their watch is equipped with a movement created and manufactured exclusively for the model they are buying or going to buy.

The above is serious enough to let it pass, but, according to kilowattore , I totally disagree with the author of the article regarding the idea of ​​degrading and devaluing the history of Panerai or saying that Panerai's only real contribution to the watch industry is the CROWN GUARD. These comments seem very exaggerated and unfair to Panerai IMO in Perezcope article.

I think that this issue can seriously damage Panerai's image and that with these behaviors Panerai can be digging its own grave. But as P..DR..D .D comments, we live in an era of permissiveness, impassivity and defenselessness in the face of the prevailing misinformation, that the truth (or supposedly truth, neither should we believe everything written in the article, although it is well documented) could be forgotten in a few months.

What happened will not only harm the gen market, but the replica market will also be affected along with the prestige of the brand.

Really sad for gen and rep fans.
ALE
 
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