VSF parts crisis looming?

[Rupert Fripp]

Ciao Paneristi,

For those of us lucky enough to have VSF Panerai’s, are we all headed for trouble if our watches start to fail and VSF not being open?

What options do we have? Are any other movement parts interchangeable with VSF 42/47mm subs?

Apologies if this has already been discussed but couldn’t find anything on it.

 

[ForecastMax]

Ciao Paneristi,

For those of us lucky enough to have VSF Panerai’s, are we all headed for trouble if our watches start to fail and VSF not being open?

What options do we have? Are any other movement parts interchangeable with VSF 42/47mm subs?

Apologies if this has already been discussed but couldn’t find anything on it.

I have still yet to find anyone who will work on my VSF 438 so that’s a worry regardless of potentially having to source movement parts in the future….

 

[Hesekiel]

I'm worried with you. I have a PAM 382 which has a display back and is powered by a clone P9000 movement. If it fails catastrophically, I wonder what my options will be as well.

 

[Rupert Fripp]

I’d heard that a 7750’s parts are compatible with the p9000 but have no idea whether that’s true or not.

 

[KOT1917]

You can't just judge it.
Some of the details are unique to the P.9000 clone, some may have in common with the 7750, some with some or other Asian movements, this should be looked at in each case of a breakdown individually.

I believe that someone from the trusted watchmakers who service this movt., And who has a rough understanding of the most common malfunctions, and experience in solving these issues - will shed light.

Also, I do not know anything about the particularly weak points of these clones, as I mean so far, they are no less persistent than any other Asian movt. with this movement is still in the ranks, and works fine, as for example it happened with the P.3000 / P.5000 clones. Yes, some have already been replaced with A6497, some have been repaired, but in general - owning a watch from a P.3000 is not a catastrophe, although many years have passed.

I suppose it will be similar with the P.9000. It will take years until this problem becomes exactly the problem in the masses of cases.

On the other hand, essentially the question: I invite those who have carried out repairs and replacement of parts on the P.9000 clone with analogs to share their specific experience here.
I believe it would be useful data.

 

[Rupert Fripp]

KOT1917 - Great point. I think any experiences from members would be really helpful.

 

[whitegold]

I had a problem with my 438 (used to stop once in a while randomly and would need a bit of a shake to restart, even on when wound up) roughly at the start of the covid pandemic.

Wasn't aware of recommended watchsmiths from this forum at the time so sent it off to someone from ebay with a 100% feedback at the time.

He kept the 438 (alongwith the 326) for well over 6 months with a partial advance fee.

Watches were returned as pictured (when I sent him a letter stating I would physically get there to collect them as I got no response from online messages)

I later sent them to a reputable and highly praised watchsmith on the forum but it was too late as some of the parts were missing from what was returned to me and it couldn't be salvaged (I'm assuming they weren't standard parts from a 7750 etc)

Sent from my SM-G9910 using Tapatalk

 

[Rupert Fripp]

I had a problem with my 438 (used to stop once in a while randomly and would need a bit of a shake to restart, even on when wound up) roughly at the start of the covid pandemic.

Wasn't aware of recommended watchsmiths from this forum at the time so sent it off to someone from ebay with a 100% feedback at the time.

He kept the 438 (alongwith the 326) for well over 6 months with a partial advance fee.

Watches were returned as pictured (when I sent him a letter stating I would physically get there to collect them as I got no response from online messages)

I later sent them to a reputable and highly praised watchsmith on the forum but it was too late as some of the parts were missing from what was returned to me and it couldn't be salvaged (I'm assuming they weren't standard parts from a 7750 etc)

Sent from my SM-G9910 using Tapatalk

That could be the most depressing post I’ve ever read on this forum.

 

[GingerBubba]

That could be the most depressing post I’ve ever read on this forum.

That's nothing. You should join RWG and read the utter crap Junior88 comes out with on a daily basis; nothing is more depressing.

 

[DerpyOfficer]

used to stop once in a while randomly and would need a bit of a shake to restart, even on when wound up.

I later sent them to a reputable and highly praised watchsmith on the forum but it was too late as some of the parts were missing from what was returned to me and it couldn't be salvaged

Wow...from just you describing the symptoms it sounded like your watch just needed a clean and proper oil. Nothing major. So to return it with less parts than it started!! Damn.

 

[Woundup]

This post isn't specific to the VSF rep PAMS. It most likely addresses all reps.

From my experience the most important step is to build up a relationship with a Watchsmith that truly understands both the rep and gen movements. I have two skilled gentlemen that I'll send my watches to for any repairs or servicing and it's taken some time and several watches to really learn how best to work with them as they can be a bit mercurial and difficult to communicate with at times. I've learned that their work can be extremely frustrating for them - especially when trying to repair older reps that have changed hands several times and have been worked on by 'hacks' who will take whatever shortcut necessary to get a movement running again for an impatient / cheap client.

I'm also surprised by how little they tend to charge for their work (please note I'm not including the gents I've sent watches to in Singapore in that statement!), so I tend to tip well for a job well done and that certainly has helped to build the relationships. As with any relationship with a service professional, when you engage in conversation, fully explain your expectations, be patient and show appreciation for a job well done, you start to see a noticeable difference. It of course helps if they are enthusiasts as well and appreciate the rep community along with nice examples.

The other important factors from my personal experience are learning what feels right when winding (both manual and auto). I have a lot of PAM reps and some Asian movements feel like Swiss when winding, though most feel like the Asian they are - these will typically have various winding issues and mediocre PR. If I like the rep with the Asian movement that feels and runs below my level of trust I will send it for servicing as a means of preventative maintenance - which has proved to be successful so far.

For the reps that I absolutely love and will never sell, I source Swiss - obviously that is with closed caseback references.

EDIT - Please do not PM me asking for my sources! They are both accessible via the rep forums. I don't want my watches being delayed.... ;-)

 

[papabear244]

I had a problem with my 438 (used to stop once in a while randomly and would need a bit of a shake to restart, even on when wound up) roughly at the start of the covid pandemic.

Wasn't aware of recommended watchsmiths from this forum at the time so sent it off to someone from ebay with a 100% feedback at the time.

He kept the 438 (alongwith the 326) for well over 6 months with a partial advance fee.

Watches were returned as pictured (when I sent him a letter stating I would physically get there to collect them as I got no response from online messages)

I later sent them to a reputable and highly praised watchsmith on the forum but it was too late as some of the parts were missing from what was returned to me and it couldn't be salvaged (I'm assuming they weren't standard parts from a 7750 etc)

Sent from my SM-G9910 using Tapatalk

You could sell it as parts and recoup some of that money…


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[papabear244]

That's nothing. You should join RWG and read the utter crap Junior88 comes out with on a daily basis; nothing is more depressing.

I know I complain a lot about facs closing and PAMs reps becoming rarities. But I’m also glad I wasn’t into this hobby during the early early days when they were all shitters basically . I read about folks dropping good amount of dough to get their watches modded just to make them look semi decent just to get scammed in the end, the total amount of money you would spend is definitely more than what you’d spend on a high quality rep nowadays.


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[Hazing]

This is a panerai issue in general - especially rep Panerai. Never mind vsf. But it certainly does suck.

I think this is why people hole on t broken parts and pieces. I have a model that is pretty much unwearable that I am holding onto just in case I need the movement as a donation unit. This is the best option for parts. But an entire similar watch and use the parts you need.


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[ForecastMax]

This is a panerai issue in general - especially rep Panerai. Never mind vsf. But it certainly does suck.

I think this is why people hole on t broken parts and pieces. I have a model that is pretty much unwearable that I am holding onto just in case I need the movement as a donation unit. This is the best option for parts. But an entire similar watch and use the parts you need.


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So true. And the service through Panerai is astronomical. Have 2 back inbound & am looking at a service bill of around $1500+. Hooray.

 

[Hesekiel]

Does Panerai sell their movements separately, and, if so, at what price?

 

[KOT1917]

Does Panerai sell their movements separately, and, if so, at what price?

If you mean GEN, then no, it doesn't sell.

 

[Madcap]

I know the feeling. I've got 15 vsf pam reps. And I'm hoarding vsf shitters to salvage the movements for my favourites.

 

[Hesekiel]

This primarily should effect PAMs with a display back, yes? If all else fails, it's probably possible to install a beautifully decorated ETA 6497 instead of the Panerai clone movement and call it a day.

 

[KOT1917]

No. Here the question was raised about the P.9000 clones from VSF, which includes the P.9001 with the GMT modification and other models that should have P.9010 / P.9011 / P.900 / OP.XXXIV which are performed by VSF, in fact are actually just relabeled P.9000.

This clone cannot be replaced by 6497, just in terms of functions (date, for example), not to mention dimensions. Unfortunately, it cannot be directly changed to A7750 or ST2555 either.