Franken 183 project

[mrsullivan]

Hello Pam freaks,

Bought as a try and without any expectations, I found myself falling in love with my Pam 183 Black Seal. The more I wear it, the more I make it mine and today I have the opportunity to buy a used 183 gen dial, which I intend to fit on my Hfac base watch.

To take things higher, I was thinking "Hey, why not trying gen hands too then ?".

Pam experts, I'll need assistance for this : which models share the same hands with the 183, so I can enlarge my research ? Would a gen dial fit easy in the Hfac case ?

I also contacted Marlin's for his full movement modding. He's off work for a couple of months but as you all know, frankening timekeepers is all about waiting, so I welcome patience into the game, and I may need some time to get more parts too anyway.

So project launched. I thank in advance all the good souls who throw their help in this project, and will keep the thread updated when things get forward.

Good evening to all.

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[Plaasbaas]

I apologize for not being able to contribute to this project, but admire the watch and your journey ahead and am looking forward to following your progress! All the best!

 

[KOT1917]

A good idea. I'm not sure if gen hands are required, but to answer your question, 380, 210, 292, 643 on a skip. I'm sure there are more, but it will be more exotic and unlikely to search.
Yes, the dial must fit.

 

[mrsullivan]

A good idea. I'm not sure if gen hands are required...

Thank you for your input. I'll see how the lume compares with the rep hands when the gen dial lands, maybe you're right and it will be a match.

Regarding the dial itself, even though the Hfac is quite nice, the font and thickness of the writings were always a bit off so I'm looking forward to the bolder gen letterings.

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[KOT1917]

It will actually be interesting to see. GEN / REP digital side by side including! We'll be waiting for your updates!

 

[mrsullivan]

Little update, the gen dial is on it's way but as I'm off for holiday next week I'll get it in a dozen days.
To keep us waiting, here's more shots from the seller.

It's a used dial, a few marks of use are on the outside diameter and center hole but should be hidden once mounted in the case. The matters on it are just lints, according to the seller.
Overall, the artificially forced lightings of the pics make the dial look kind of over contrasted and the letterings a bit rough. I'll see the real condition when I physically have the dial in hands, hope it'll be decent... and really gen LOL.

More next week.

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[mrsullivan]

Gen dial ended up landing today.

As I'm leaving tonight for a week I'll work it in the Hfac 183 next week when I'm back but here is a 1rst feeling :

- Condition : it's a used dial and some marks show on the outside and center CP hole. Nothing bad, these areas won't show once mounted.
I think this dial is from an old batch (model came out in 2004) : the lume is a bit weak and goes off in a few minutes and the dial surface shows a form of patina on some angles. Also the letterings on the dial are a bit rough, not as sharp as later productions.

- Gen letterings vs Hfac : at 1rst glance, the lettering are there again not as sharp as H-fac, but quite different. They're bolder and show a silverish tone when the rep is greenish yellow.

- Gen indexes vs Hfac : Hfac did a very good job IMO. The shapes are spot on (only the "1" is a bit different) and indexes width is just a tad bit wider than gen. I don't think it shows at normal distance though.

- Rep hands on gen dial : hard to tell until the hands are mounted on it but they seem closer to gen lume than to the Hfac lume (@KOT1917 it seems you're right about those hands). We'll se when swapping is done.

I wish I could find a NOS dial, but this used one will give some "history" to the watch, and overall I'm happy with it so far.

I'll mount it when back from holidays, and will take more pics once the Hfac is out of the case for more details.

Here come some pics, gen dial is out of the watch (obviously) :

 

[KOT1917]

I really hope you like what you bought.

To be honest, your HF dial looks much more like a GEN, at least from the front, in my opinion.

Please do not take it to heart, and do what makes this watch more valuable and beautiful for you.

 

[mrsullivan]

Well, having gen parts in a watch is always thrilling. Buying used ones though, is a hit or miss and I feel a bit caught in between the two with this dial.

I don't doubt it's gen (or should I ?), but I expected something sharper and actually newer. It has a "vintagy" look, which is a style in itself, but I'm not sure it fits my tastes as I'm not into vintage in the first place.

In an other hand, the Hfac is a great replica dial indeed, but it also shows uncorrect details that I wanted to get rid off going gen.

So I'm a little bit so-so as we speak. I think I'll give myself some time to know what I want.

 

[Layo]

Well, having gen parts in a watch is always thrilling. Buying used ones though, is a hit or miss and I feel a bit caught in between the two with this dial.

I agree, I just bought a gen dial for a submariner project and it turned out to be a "spider" dial which means that the coating on the dial has started cracking (which was not reflected in the pictures). Fortunately I actually like the look of it, but I can totally get why some people want a sharp and clean dial. Sometimes it's really hard with these out-of production models though.

 

[mrsullivan]

Gentlemen, project aborted.

After scrutinizing the dial and gathering infos and expert member's opinion here (thanx RWI again for such an involved community !), I decided to return the dial to the seller (which he agreed on).

This part may have been a fake, it may have been a gen. Hard to tell so far, but either way it had some odd and unusual specifications that made me feel uneasy with it. Disappointing but those mistakes are part of the game. 183s are not rare, maybe there'll be another chance later.

On a positive side, it throws once again a spotlight on the quality of gone H Factory productions. Their 183 dial is a great replica, where differences with gen are in such small details that they can be almost considered as variations more than flaws. This factory really earned its reputation, with amazing and collectible watches indeed.

Now, beyond the gen/fake question in this particular case, there's here a reminder on frankening watches : make sure going for gen parts is worthy, as it is not necessarily a real upgrade when rep parts are so good. I'll keep that in mind.

Cheers everyone.

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[Plaasbaas]

Sorry to hear that, but good that you are decisive and stop the train before you burn a hole in your purse for something you might not be 100% sure about later, or even regret it.

I think the watch you have now already is a stunning piece as is, and can be enjoyed without further effort in changing parts of it.

Personally, I would also only go gen if it means a significant and worthwhile enhancement of looks, functionality and/or quality.

 

[granvino]

I really hope you like what you bought.

To be honest, your HF dial looks much more like a GEN, at least from the front, in my opinion.

Please do not take it to heart, and do what makes this watch more valuable and beautiful for you.

Those were the glory days of the H Fac/Noob rivalry. Both gave us excellent dials, hands, cases and excellent reps overall. I commissioned a 183 with Marlin and after 3 that he ordered finally accepted one that was up to his standards. A few months later the package arrived and it was simply stunning

 

[KOT1917]

All's well that ends well mrsullivan ! I'm sure you will still have the opportunity to improve your 183 in the way you like. The same work by Marlin will not take a little time, but in the meantime, there may be another dial.
By the way, tell us more in this thread in more detail, when will you have the opportunity that in the HF dial you won to look for GEN?

Lovely 183, granvino ! Your additions often have facts rare to mention these days. Over the past couple of years, I haven't come across noob 183 for sure, neither in the picture from anyone, nor in the discussion.

 

[mrsullivan]

Those were the glory days of the H Fac/Noob rivalry. Both gave us excellent dials, hands, cases and excellent reps overall. I commissioned a 183 with Marlin and after 3 that he ordered finally accepted one that was up to his standards. A few months later the package arrived and it was simply stunning

Really nice. Marlin's movement work takes watches on another level indeed. Regardless the dial thing, I'll send him mine as soon as he gets back to work.

The opportunity to go for a gen dial, with bolder letterings and its curved "R" feet, was a chance to complete a perfect 183 to my eyes. But no bitterness whatsoever here, the aborted project does not take any of my love for that Hfac away.

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[KOT1917]

I found a number of my photos of PAM183 HF, but unfortunately, as strange as this is, there is no adequate photo of the top two lines. It's strange why I didn't capture this, but I'll still add what I have to this thread to be able to see some details:

Just for your reference.