Announcement

Collapse

Please Consider Supporting RWI Today!

We depend on Supporter & Patron subscriptions to pay the bills. Please consider supporting RWI TODAY, CLICK HERE for info on how to subscribe.
See more
See less

Silencing a Noisy Rotor

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Silencing a Noisy Rotor

    Many people send me their watches to have the rotor silenced. I used to do this without much thought, but some recent watches I have received proved very difficult to silence.
    These were Patek Philippe and Audemars Piguet replicas using the Miyota 9015 movement.
    In order to understand the construction of this Japanese rotor, I decided to disassemble the Miyota 9015 rotor to its basic components. Here is a picture of them:

    You will see in this picture, the three rotor mounting screws, seven small ball bearings, the rotor tray and bottom and top plates.
    The gear of the rotor is still on the gold plated rotor down below, compression fitted.
    Those are the mechanical components. They are fairly well made for such an inexpensive movement.
    Given that different types of rotors emit a different pitch and timbre noise, there were a number of factors at play here, of which two seemed the most important:
    1.) the noise of the bearings in the rotor tray.
    2.) the amplification of the bearing noise by the metallic rotor itself as a sonically transmitting surface
    Flooding the rotor tray with the most common Moebius oils (9010, D5...) is not very effective or wise in removing the noise. Moreover, anyone who claims they eliminated 100% of the noise through this method, is actually over-exaggerating.
    Moreover, these people are playing it very risky: there is a not negligible chance that flooding the rotor tray with a light oil will damage the movement: after all, the jewels for the seconds gear pinion is located dead center right under the rotor, and accidental oil overflow from the rotor into that jewel will be enough to stop the movement. This is because the Miyota 9015 is very sensitive to over-oiling, and applying too much oil to certain jewels (balance being a good example) will effectively stop the movement.
    "Which oil is best?" might be one of the evergreen forum controversies. There is a dizzying array of possibilities. After all, Moebius is a big company supplying specialist watchmaking oils to all of the Swiss manufacturers. In the classic rotor assembly, 9010 is often recommended by ETA and Rolex. Again, using 9010 on a Miyota 9015 rotor will only make it spin faster and might actually make it sound louder. Although it is thicker, D5 is dangerous as, despite its greater thickness, it can spray into other parts of the movement.
    Rotor bearing lubrication is very tricky because of the impact involved. The bearing spin around at a very fast speed sliding across the bearing tray. The force and motion will cause a light oil, of the sort you would use for movement jewels, to splatter. Over time, the effect of the oil on the sonics of the rotor will suffer as the oil disperses and degrades.
    What is needed is an oil that is a gloppy grease that is sufficiently liquid not to block the spin of the rotor too much. It cannot be a light oil, and it must stay in place and not splatter.
    In addition, the rotor blade itself needs to be sonically dampened from underside to reduce its resonant properties.
    What might be the best solution? Hmm...
    Last edited by slaughterer62; 13-04-19, 19:15.

    #2
    Seiko recommends using silicon grease on their rotor bearings ....

    Comment


      #3
      I thought Chinese pubes were supposed to silence the rotor?
      My collection | Who has the best sub? A guide for noobs | List of TDs contact info

      Comment


        #4
        My question is : "is it THAT loud?" and is there really a need to silence it? Maybe most people are not used to hear the "noise" of an automatic watch...

        Comment


          #5
          It makes sense what you say but why would ETA and all major brands recommend Moebius 9010 for the rotorbearing, specitied a very small amount on the oil chart?

          Comment


            #6
            A fantastic write-up by slaughterer and hits the nail right on the rotor
            Click the pic to go to my Build Portfolio!


            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by capice View Post
              It makes sense what you say but why would ETA and all major brands recommend Moebius 9010 for the rotorbearing, specitied a very small amount on the oil chart?
              ETA doesn’t make asian clone movements


              Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
              Click the pic to go to my Build Portfolio!


              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Natas78 View Post

                ETA doesn’t make asian clone movements


                Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
                I am sure you understand the meaning, if even ETA recommends 9010 for rotor bearings.... and the Miyota is not an Asian clone but original Japanese made by a subsidiary of Citizen....but I am sure you knew that.....

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by capice View Post

                  I am sure you understand the meaning, if even ETA recommends 9010 for rotor bearings.... and the Miyota is not an Asian clone but original Japanese made by a subsidiary of Citizen....but I am sure you knew that.....
                  Ofcourse. Silencing the rotor is not what ETA has in mind when recommending 9010 and the tiny amount that ought to be used. It is in fact a simple ball bearing so any household oil in the right amount would virtually work to properly lube it. Silencing is another story. Cheapo movements will make noise, period. look at an a7750 vs ETA 7750 rotor, big difference in build quality.
                  Last edited by Natas78; 14-04-19, 11:11. Reason: spelling error
                  Click the pic to go to my Build Portfolio!


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Natas78 View Post

                    Ofcourse. Silencing the rotor is not what ETA has in mind when recommending 9010 and the tiny amount that ought to be used. It is in fact a simple ball bearing so any household oil in the right amount would virtually work to properly lube it. Silencing is another story. Cheapo movements will make noise, period. look at an a7750 vs ETA 7750 rotor, big difference in build quality.
                    thanks, the oil/grease is for lubrication correct......so if I follow your thoughts, it is just the bad quality of the bearings that generate the noise with the Miyota mvts, oiled or not oiled...., so even if an ETA7750 rotor would be dry/without lubrication, it still wouldn't make noise?....So replacing the ballbearings for better quality ones would that silence the rotor?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by slaughterer62 View Post

                      What is needed is an oil that is a gloppy grease that is sufficiently liquid not to block the spin of the rotor too much. It cannot be a light oil, and it must stay in place and not splatter.
                      In addition, the rotor blade itself needs to be sonically dampened from underside to reduce its resonant properties.
                      What might be the best solution? Hmm...
                      Silicone grease and sticky tape?
                      My collection | Who has the best sub? A guide for noobs | List of TDs contact info

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by capice View Post

                        thanks, the oil/grease is for lubrication correct......so if I follow your thoughts, it is just the bad quality of the bearings that generate the noise with the Miyota mvts, oiled or not oiled...., so even if an ETA7750 rotor would be dry/without lubrication, it still wouldn't make noise?....So replacing the ballbearings for better quality ones would that silence the rotor?
                        Just do a quick google search on "miyota 9015 noisy", the amount of results returned immediately answers your question.
                        Same as doing a search on "Ford Pinto gas tank" lol.
                        the bog standard Miyota 9015 is actually a pretty silent movement, but when the chinese are done doing there make-overs to them, complete with customised rotor, that's when there's drama.
                        Best thing to do? Avoid instead of trying to remedy.
                        Click the pic to go to my Build Portfolio!


                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Natas78 View Post

                          Just do a quick google search on "miyota 9015 noisy", the amount of results returned immediately answers your question.
                          Same as doing a search on "Ford Pinto gas tank" lol.
                          the bog standard Miyota 9015 is actually a pretty silent movement, but when the chinese are done doing there make-overs to them, complete with customised rotor, that's when there's drama.
                          Best thing to do? Avoid instead of trying to remedy.
                          I did the reading, even on TZ it is a known issue...never thought the customisation led to the noise....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Nivka View Post

                            Silicone grease and sticky tape?
                            That would be an easy solution; hence it should not be implemented.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Natas78 View Post
                              A fantastic write-up by slaughterer and hits the nail right on the rotor
                              Natas78 thanks to my friend in arms. Like me you probably will see a lot of over-lubed Miyota 9015 replicas coming your way this summer once the hot sun warms up the piles of grease in them and makes it spread throughout the movement destroying its performance. Fun times! Just hope nobody thinks they can solve this problem by bathing their watch in ice-cold orange soda from time to time.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X