I have been honing in on my watchmaking skills, but I have an Achilles heel...

[saucin]

So at the start of the pandemic I dove into watchmaking as a hobby. Over the past few months I’ve been pleased with my progress. I swap dials and movements with ease. I modded my own NARFtona (shaved ARF diaL and all the other Jazz). I mastered my bezel paint mod. I even recently obtained Rolex service manuals so I can practice disassembling and reassembling movements. Generally speaking I have always been a “handy man” and take pride in my work. I think I have some potential but I get stuck on one major aspect of watchmaking/modding:

My Achilles heel = the damn BEZEL!!!!

I’ve removed and replaced a fair amount and have done crystal swaps. But I’ve yet to have ONE go “smoothly” (except for the Daytona of course - because there’s not xtal retaining ring and bezel hytrel ring lol). With my GMT’s and submariners there’s always an issue I have to McGiver my way out of. I started out using the razor blade and case knife method, then upgraded to the Horotec bezel removal tool... at this point I’m so frustrated with things I’m tempted to upgrade again to the Bergeon 8820.

98% of the time something goes wrong the bezel hytrel ring... either the ring is on too tight and it takes the crystal and xtal retaining ring with it and I have to push them out... when this happens the damn bezel never “clicks” back into place correctly when I “press” it back on and the hytrel ring gets damaged, leading to the bezel not appearing flush with the case... other times the crystal and retaining ring stay in place and the hytrel ring is damaged as it passes over the retaining ring leading during the removal process and the same “not flush” issue results when the bezel is repressed into place....

I’ve tried so many different techniques that I’m truly discouraged and decided to see if any “professionals” can lend some useful advise. I’m clearly doing something wrong, but can’t figure it out for the life of me (yes I’ve read a TON of bezel removal threads already).

I’d love to finally have more successes than failures in this department. Please help!

Love,
Saucin


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[KJ2020]

Post a pic of your removal tool bro.

I swear by the 4 bladed ones, I even also have one of the really cheap ones from Ali Express and have used it plenty. I think you are mainly talking about 6 digit ceramic bezels, earlier models are a different challenge.

I always take it really slowly, closely scrutinizing the blades going in and assessing if there's excessive unevenness, etc. I frequently will stop partially through and rotate a watch head around to counter that.

I put dial protector squares on the blades to protect the lugs and always remove the bracelet so it's not flopping around. You also need to be aware of when to stop advancing the blades as they will contact the crystal retaining ring. Sometimes the bezel doesn't rise up enough and you have to stop because the blades are in too far. Get a good quality case knife, tape off a lug and use a thin piece of cardboard under the blade to finish the removal. If this happens, do the manual lifting on the low point where the bezel is closest to the case.

The smooth, thin, strong case blade on this knife works great.

https://www.esslinger.com/swiss-case...-choose-color/

A symmetrical, even lifting of the bezel goes a long way toward eliminating damage to the hytrel ring.

 

[saucin]

Here’s a photo of my bezel removal tool and my case knife.

Originally thought the Bergeon 8820 might eliminate my issues with some Rolex sport models because the blades slide under just enough to “lock onto” the bezel, while a center device “pushes” on the crystal to pop the bezel off. That way the crystal never comes off with the bezel, and it maintains equal pressure on the hytrel ring during removal.

But based on what you’ve shared there’s a chance my problems are arising due to the speed at which I close the tool... I’m going to try a much slower approach next time and look for uneven sides - if needed I’ll follow your advice to address any complications along the way. Hopefully things go smoothly lol.

Thinking back, I always use the tool with the caseback facing up (crystal side down). Could that be the problem too?

P.S. I also learned that if/when the blades go in too far, they can damage the small spring and ball bearing parts in some submariners!


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[Logixa]

saucin your in exactly the same issue as I am/was for a long time. That bezel removal tool of yours will NOT work on ANY ceramic+turning+hyrtel combo bezels. This bezel removal tool is ONLY for fixed bezels as daytonas/datejusts/etc.

For a turning bezel you need either the bergeon 8820 tool or the omega version of it:

I have this one and to be honest, it does not work as good as I hoped.. Im thinking the same of upgrading to the bergeon 8820 but the price is huge!

 

[Ex-ki]

For my part I have several tools including this one bought from AliExpress. It absolutely does not work, especially do not buy it.

 

[KJ2020]

Different strokes, as with most things in life. I have used the tool I posted on every type of bezel I've ever removed without issue. I've never cracked an insert unintentionally, or destroyed a click spring/ball or hytrel ring. I've worked on some that came to me with issues and I've had to improvise or make repairs but from a factory state, I've had complete success with the 4 blade removal tool and a good case knife.

The watch head goes into the removal tool upside down. Caseback up.

 

[saucin]

Different strokes, as with most things in life. I have used the tool I posted on every type of bezel I've ever removed without issue. I've never cracked an insert unintentionally, or destroyed a click spring/ball or hytrel ring. I've worked on some that came to me with issues and I've had to improvise or make repairs but from a factory state, I've had complete success with the 4 blade removal tool and a good case knife.

The watch head goes into the removal tool upside down. Caseback up.

Thanks bro. Appreciate your input. Like I said I’m going to try the slow and steady approach and see how things go. What type of press do you use to replace the bezels?


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[Logixa]

Every time I used that tool KJ2020 I pulled off the bezel+crystal+retainer ring as a whole on those 6 digit subs

 

[KJ2020]

Every time I used that tool KJ2020 I pulled off the bezel+crystal+retainer ring as a whole on those 6 digit subs

Yeah that can be annoying bro. I just use different dies to split them up. If you have a better way that works for you that's all you need. I might grab one of those tools from Ouliguan just to try it out. I've tried the hockey puck types before but always had trouble restraining the watch head to get enough force on the tool.

 

[KJ2020]

Thanks bro. Appreciate your input. Like I said I’m going to try the slow and steady approach and see how things go. What type of press do you use to replace the bezels?


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I have several presses so I don't always use the same one. I always try to just hand press first. If not I usually go to a direct press next with a die that doesn't touch the insert. If that doesn't do it I take the insert out and use a screw down press then refit the insert after the bezel is home.

Oascom made a good insert removal and replacenent tutorial

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/modification-repairs/8689930-ceramic-insert-removal-guide

 

[saucin]

I have several presses so I don't always use the same one. I always try to just hand press first. If not I usually go to a direct press next with a die that doesn't touch the insert. If that doesn't do it I take the insert out and use a screw down press then refit the insert after the bezel is home.

Ok good to know! So it’s not always an easy job... I have a few presses as well, but I did the same process for the direct press as I did for the screw down.... do you remove the insert because of the “constant” pressure a screw down press applies means higher chance to crack it?

Oascom made a good insert removal and replacenent tutorial

Yes that tutorial is nice; nevertheless I tried that method 4x... successfully removed a 116710LN Rep insert, broke 1 Gen 116710LN insert while pressing it in, and then broke 2 more rep inserts (on the latter I was tilted after breaking Gen, so I may have been too aggressive lol).

Reminds me that intended to revisit that tutorial as part of my internal “Battle against the bezel”.


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[Ex-ki]

Oascom made a good insert removal and replacenent tutorial

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/modification-repairs/8689930-ceramic-insert-removal-guide

Missed that! Thanks a lot for the reminder, this link goes directly into my favorites

 

[Oascom]

Bergeon 8820 is the way to go but of course only if you can afford it. Much safer, easier, faster than bezel removal tool you have.

I use both tools depending what I want to do.

All I can say from my experience you never know with reps and even best tools won't be enough vs poor rep constructions / fittings etc. There is always a little improvisation you need to do.

Good set of dies, good press and 8820 and bezel tool you use can work wonders together

 

[Oascom]

Btw not even once I cracked insert using my dies and I change tons of them.
today:

 

[saucin]

Btw not even once I cracked insert using my dies and I change tons of them.
today:

That’s actually very impressive. I must have tooled the dies incorrectly. I’m going to revisit your tutorial soon. I have 1 set of Horotec dies and 2 sets of cheap eBay dies. I prefer to dremel the eBay ones lol. If you don’t mind, could you tell me what size dies you have there... I see one #32 (guessing a 32/31 or 32/30). Can tell me what the other two are?


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[saucin]

Bergeon 8820 is the way to go but of course only if you can afford it. Much safer, easier, faster than bezel removal tool you have.

I use both tools depending what I want to do.

All I can say from my experience you never know with reps and even best tools won't be enough vs poor rep constructions / fittings etc. There is always a little improvisation you need to do.

Good set of dies, good press and 8820 and bezel tool you use can work wonders together

Awesome. Thank you for the valuable feedback/information! I look forward to the possibility of winning my next bezel battle haha.

May I ask for an example of a job you’d choose the four bladed bezel remover over the 8820? I only ask because I ordered the 8820 and was planning on selling the Horotec Bezel tool once it arrived... if I might need it, I’ll hold onto it though.


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[d3s19n]

I’d question the waterproofability of any rep SubC where the retainer/crystal gasket comes out with the bezel assy. The former should be tight to seal the midcase and the latter flexible for the bezel to rotate.

For example a gen gasket fits on my ARF v1 with a retainer on top but they are loose enough to come up when I try and remove the bezel.. and thus “gen gasket doesn’t fit ARF”...

So in conclusion any tool that has a sharp enough edge able to get underneath the bezel assy and hard enough to pry it up will work. Since the assy is fairly solid the pressure should be distributed around the hytrel ring and not just one part as not to damage it
Now you guys have got me nervous for my upcoming crystal swap with the new vsf! Hopefully it takes gen gasket and hopefully the hytrel is strong so I can preserve the genlike vsf click

 

[d3s19n]

But actually I believe RSC replaces hytrel rings after every bezel removal, ie. They do get damaged on bezel removals and/ or shouldnt be reused more than a few times

 

[Oascom]

Awesome. Thank you for the valuable feedback/information! I look forward to the possibility of winning my next bezel battle haha.

May I ask for an example of a job you’d choose the four bladed bezel remover over the 8820? I only ask because I ordered the 8820 and was planning on selling the Horotec Bezel tool once it arrived... if I might need it, I’ll hold onto it though.


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Sometimes I use it to remove retaining ring if it's too stubborn, those blades slide beneeth the ring easily just go very gentle and turn the case around

 

[Ex-ki]

What do you think about this version of the bezel remover (Horotec or Chinese clone)?

EDIT - Ok, my answer is here: https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...rs/8689930-ceramic-insert-removal-guide/page2