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Putting 23J back together - help - is this a DG2813?

Tader

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So, fun story with this one. I've had this Explorer II (the cheap Noob one) for about 2 years or so I'd say, and have worn it about 20 times I'd say. Put it on the other day to notice that the rotor was spinning vigorously when winding through the crown, so I did some research. Found the first video where the guy took apart an ETA and lubbed up a gear. So I was thinking, sounds nice. It's obviously a different movement but I thought, can't be that much different, it's a watch. I take off the backplate and boom, shit goes everywhere. It seems it is all held down under pressure, and only works when everything is pushed down.

Now my question and what I need help with is, is there an easy way to get this plate back on that I'm not thinking of or seeing? Everytime I try to put it on, it moves all the gears out of place, and nothing works. If there's any suggestions on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I've tried moving all the parts around and attaching the back about 9 times at this point. Does everything look to be in the right place? I've attached a picture of the movement, and the backplate.

Tnjtd.jpg

TnL9Z.jpg

Tnt6R.jpg


Now my final question is, is this a DG2813? It sort of looks like, but there are details that are wrong, like there's a gear near the crown on the DG2813, where this one has no such thing.
 

KJ2020

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Yes it's a DG2813. Yes you have everything in the correct positions. No there Is not an easier way to attach the backplate, you just have to keep all those pivots and pinions standing tall while you put their collective hat on. It's a real b!tch, it took me 3 hours the first time.

That movement variation would have a couple mods to drive the GMT hand, but unless your GMT hand moves independently it's a 2813. If the GMT hand is independent, it's a DG3804 which is still a 2813 with a few more mods to work the GMT hand.

If you decide to give up, 2813s are cheap. Or you could splurge on a 3804 for 40 bucks and have a fully working GMT hand. Or just sell it as is. What color dial is it?
 

Tader

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3/5/15
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Yes it's a DG2813. Yes you have everything in the correct positions. No there Is not an easier way to attach the backplate, you just have to keep all those pivots and pinions standing tall while you put their collective hat on. It's a real b!tch, it took me 3 hours the first time.

That movement variation would have a couple mods to drive the GMT hand, but unless your GMT hand moves independently it's a 2813. If the GMT hand is independent, it's a DG3804 which is still a 2813 with a few more mods to work the GMT hand.

If you decide to give up, 2813s are cheap. Or you could splurge on a 3804 for 40 bucks and have a fully working GMT hand. Or just sell it as is. What color dial is it?

Thank you so much for the response. It's almost tempting to sell as is and then just save up for the CHS version of the watch. Certainly my favorite Rolex. This is the white face orange hand Explorer II, in perfect condition other than the movement issue. I also have the black face, and it's quite hard to decide which one I like better.

I'm assuming both the 2813 and the 3804 are high beat movements? Also, do you think it would be possible to buy a movement + hands from a dealer to achieve CHS?

Thanks again KJ
 

KJ2020

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Thank you so much for the response. It's almost tempting to sell as is and then just save up for the CHS version of the watch. Certainly my favorite Rolex. This is the white face orange hand Explorer II, in perfect condition other than the movement issue. I also have the black face, and it's quite hard to decide which one I like better.

I'm assuming both the 2813 and the 3804 are high beat movements? Also, do you think it would be possible to buy a movement + hands from a dealer to achieve CHS?

Thanks again KJ

Most 2813's and 3804's I've seen are low beat. There are some high beat 2813's, sometimes called 2813-2 or 4813. Best way to tell is put it on a timegrapher. To get CHS you would need a 3187 movement, which I don't believe will fit in your case. Even if it did it would have a different stem height. That creates a vertical angle on the stem and forces one side of the crown threads against the tube with uneven force. Crown can get so tight you can't move it. Best to start over completely if you want CHS. A new 3804 is not much more than a new 2813 (40 vs 27, ballpark), that's what I would do, even if you sell it you have an independent GMT hand and a new good movement. Might even decide to keep it, I have several low beat movement reps - I never see any stutter or any other differences. One new 3804 of mine is currently 0 sec/day. What more can you ask for? Hands hole sizes for 3804 are the same as 2813.
 

Tader

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3/5/15
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Most 2813's and 3804's I've seen are low beat. There are some high beat 2813's, sometimes called 2813-2 or 4813. Best way to tell is put it on a timegrapher. To get CHS you would need a 3187 movement, which I don't believe will fit in your case. Even if it did it would have a different stem height. That creates a vertical angle on the stem and forces one side of the crown threads against the tube with uneven force. Crown can get so tight you can't move it. Best to start over completely if you want CHS. A new 3804 is not much more than a new 2813 (40 vs 27, ballpark), that's what I would do, even if you sell it you have an independent GMT hand and a new good movement. Might even decide to keep it, I have several low beat movement reps - I never see any stutter or any other differences. One new 3804 of mine is currently 0 sec/day. What more can you ask for? Hands hole sizes for 3804 are the same as 2813.

Sounds like a plan to me. I'll probably get one ordered today and then see it in a couple weeks to a month, haha.

Thanks for the advice!
 
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KJ2020

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Sounds like a plan to me. I'll probably get one ordered today and then see it in a couple weeks to a month, haha.

Thanks for the advice!

If you want a better DW than the 3804 comes with, or you have one on your 2813, you'll need to swap your datewheel over, or use a DWO. The datewheel on the 3804 is actuated a little differently than the 2813. Same concept but the springs are in a different spot. The 3804 date jumper can be a bugger to reset unless you tape the DW down since the slightest shifting of the DW in its recess will trip the spring loose. Alternately, you can compress the open end of the spring and insert it through the keyhole slot in the top plate cover. See pics.

Would probably be easier to just buy a new DWO (or salvage your old one, slice it off the DW) and glue it onto the new DW without removing the new movement's top plate cover.

iHEzd.jpg


iHWjZ.jpg


iHb0R.jpg
 

KJ2020

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The stock DG2813 and 3804 datewheel fonts are close, but not exactly like the gen Rolex fonts. Sometimes reps come with gen-like DWO's, sometimes not. Most often the DG movement reps do not so you may be used to not having a gen-like DW. In particular, the numerals 20-31 are a bit different from the gens.
 

Tader

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The stock DG2813 and 3804 datewheel fonts are close, but not exactly like the gen Rolex fonts. Sometimes reps come with gen-like DWO's, sometimes not. Most often the DG movement reps do not so you may be used to not having a gen-like DW. In particular, the numerals 20-31 are a bit different from the gens.

What do you use to slice off the datewheel? Just like an exacto knife and then super glue it on ?
 

KJ2020

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Get a load of this one. Old style dial with maxi markers and hands, new style larger case & bezel. It came with a DG2813, non-independent GMT. I upgraded it to DG3804 to get the independent GMT hand.

S5TiK.jpg
 

KJ2020

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I have fun with Explorers and GMT's, hehe

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Tader

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I have fun with Explorers and GMT's, hehe

15398361892670.jpg

I really love this. This would be super awesome if you got the thicker Explorer II hands and painted the gmt red, to me at least haha.