melody
Active Member
Thank you so much for all the info I super duper appreciate it!!! This Is so cool and I'm gonna do it next time it needs service.
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VS3235 movement timing/amp issues
- Thread starter Ylijumala
- Start date
Thank you so much for all the info I super duper appreciate it!!! This Is so cool and I'm gonna do it next time it needs service.
I have the movement stripped down and the parts cleaned with ultrasonic now. Unfortunately my microscope decided to kill the SD card where I had all the pictures 
On the outside the movement was cleanish, but while disassembling I found a noticeable amount of debris (dust, other small particles, some fabric fibers and a metal shaving) from between the parts. Also no oil in pretty much any relevant place, which likely is one cause of the low amplitude. Now I just need some Moebius 9415 for the pallet stones and I can do a proper oiling.
On the outside the movement was cleanish, but while disassembling I found a noticeable amount of debris (dust, other small particles, some fabric fibers and a metal shaving) from between the parts. Also no oil in pretty much any relevant place, which likely is one cause of the low amplitude. Now I just need some Moebius 9415 for the pallet stones and I can do a proper oiling.
Assembled the movement yesterday and found what caused the uneven timing. The hairspring had some small kinks in it near the timing adjustment stud and the distance of the last leg of the spring was uneven to the next winding. Now positional changes have only minuscule effect on the timing. Will post pics later, easier to show than explain.
This video helped a lot with repairing the spring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYk787sjAM
However, even with cleanup and correct oils amplitude is still low (though improved by about 15 degrees after the service). Looks like the mainspring has to be replaced. As a nice bonus, crown action feels almost gen-like now.
Timing now:
This video helped a lot with repairing the spring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYk787sjAM
However, even with cleanup and correct oils amplitude is still low (though improved by about 15 degrees after the service). Looks like the mainspring has to be replaced. As a nice bonus, crown action feels almost gen-like now.
Timing now:
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- 12/3/18
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Your increase in lift angle used would account for the increase in amplitude.
Great work smoothing out the oscillations. It's a major victory when you can re-shape a hairspring to an improved state.
Have you messed with the mainspring at all? I think it's at least worth trying a disassembly, cleaning and re-greasing. If you've done that then maybe try a replacement. Your balance assembly is running too good to quit now.
Great work smoothing out the oscillations. It's a major victory when you can re-shape a hairspring to an improved state.
Have you messed with the mainspring at all? I think it's at least worth trying a disassembly, cleaning and re-greasing. If you've done that then maybe try a replacement. Your balance assembly is running too good to quit now.
- 13/3/16
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If you decide to replace the mainspring, a gen barrel and spring can be had for a little over $100.
Ah yes, my bad, forgot that the earlier run was with 52 deg lift angle setting. At least the amp doesn't change much with positional changes anymore.
Thanks! Couldn't have done it without that video tutorial though, had no idea that the bend and raised clearance at the end of the hairspring is that significant.
Nope, but maybe I should now that you mention it, though I suppose the risk of breakage is rather high. Don't have a mainspring rewinding tool either, so could get hairy to get it back into the barrel...
- 13/3/16
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Now that the watch has been running for a couple of weeks, the amplitude has actually risen by around 20 degrees at max and settles at 235 if it winds up by wearing. The power reserve hovers around 60 hours and after 24 hours the amplitude is 210 so technically the amp it is "in spec". Manual winding still results (I suspect) in excessive slippage of the main spring. Nikz suggested to open the barrel and try doing a cleanup of it as well, so I will probably try to do that when I next open the watch.
I also managed to rescue the SD card where I had the balance spring pictures (please disregard the dates, the time resets when the microscope is powered off). In the first pic the balance staff is fine:
The balance spring is badly out of poise. The adjustment stud also was turned somewhat sideways which exacerbated the issues:
Here you can see how badly the spring is out of alignment. The person who did the "adjustment" (probably at the QC phase) seems to have botched the job entirely and also managed to kink the spring with the adjustment stud.
Almost there. I fixed the extension angle and adjusted the end of the spring gradually to keep the distance to the previous winding constant. Some small adjustments were still necessary after placing the balance staff in the bridge. This is still far from perfect and an actual watch smith would probably be amused, but at least it works now
Side note: I find that blu tack is very useful for this kind of precision work. It resists enough to allow me to carefully push the piece of the spring I am adjusting but gives in if I push too forcefully. Also of course it keeps the small pieces in place.
I also managed to rescue the SD card where I had the balance spring pictures (please disregard the dates, the time resets when the microscope is powered off). In the first pic the balance staff is fine:
The balance spring is badly out of poise. The adjustment stud also was turned somewhat sideways which exacerbated the issues:
Here you can see how badly the spring is out of alignment. The person who did the "adjustment" (probably at the QC phase) seems to have botched the job entirely and also managed to kink the spring with the adjustment stud.
Almost there. I fixed the extension angle and adjusted the end of the spring gradually to keep the distance to the previous winding constant. Some small adjustments were still necessary after placing the balance staff in the bridge. This is still far from perfect and an actual watch smith would probably be amused, but at least it works now
Side note: I find that blu tack is very useful for this kind of precision work. It resists enough to allow me to carefully push the piece of the spring I am adjusting but gives in if I push too forcefully. Also of course it keeps the small pieces in place.
Can you please advise if this is a straight swap in a VSF 126610, or is some modification required?
- 12/3/18
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The only mod is the stem - you'll have to put the VR stem on the VSF crown. I think it's possible for some minor hand collar tweaking (crimping or broaching) - this can happen with dissimilar movements. I've not experienced it or heard of it with 126x Subs but have seen it with SH to VR 3186s. Both sets of those dissimilar movements have the exact same hand hole sizes as their counterparts on paper.
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This is one of my defective VS3235 balance wheels.
Could you please clarify if that balance spring is siting in the groove of the two regulator pins, or is it sitting against the inside of the inside pin? Hope that makes sense. I can't tell from this photo, which is the best one I can find. This Jtime picture of a balance shows the spring running along the inside, not between, but it's for a different movement.
P.S. been trying to repair my busted VS3235 hair spring today. First time playing with one on its back out of the movement. I can't believe these things are able to take any sort of bump when they're mounted with the case closed. So fragile!
- 12/3/18
- 32,773
- 59,003
- 113
Could you please clarify if that balance spring is siting in the groove of the two regulator pins, or is it sitting against the inside of the inside pin?
Check out this video bro. The bend in your spring right near the stud (anchor point) should be straightened out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYk787sjAM
That's awesome. Thanks mate.
It all looks so easy when the pros do it, not to mention with a 50x zoom.
Here's mine after removing it today - it looks like I've put the spring back in the correct position on the regulator, but the spacing between coils is way off on the right side compared to the left . Unfortunately, I've lost the retaining clip for the jewel (I think it's somewhere inside the movement, but can't be sure), but I'm going to stay on it to see if I can get it corrected and working properly. If I can, but can't get a retaining clip, at least I'll have picked up a new skill.
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I was working on another VS3235 and left the balance assembly on the table overnight (under a dust cover of course) and my stupid cat managed to get into the room and dropped the whole thing on the floor. That broke the upper pivot from the balance staff. Teaches me to secure the door properly...
Anyone knows if there's a source of these balance wheels with spring, or if a generic 3135 balance staff could be used? I haven't managed to find a match so far but these look like something that should be readily available somewhere. Is the construction riveted though? That might make replacing the staff difficult.
Anyone knows if there's a source of these balance wheels with spring, or if a generic 3135 balance staff could be used? I haven't managed to find a match so far but these look like something that should be readily available somewhere. Is the construction riveted though? That might make replacing the staff difficult.
While waiting for parts for other projects I decided to strip this one down again down to the barrel. With very careful prying with a screwdriver (I think I used yellow tip size) it can be opened using the barrel teeth as leverage. I went around the barrel 3 times and finally it popped open. The walls are not as thin as I feared, but care needs to be taken I would say.
The barrel was completely dry, no surprises there. I don't have a mainspring winder so I did not even try taking the spring out of the barrel at this point. I washed it with a solvent however and managed to insert some graphite grease between the barrel wall and the spring in 2 places. Also oiled the coils in the middle with a small amount of HP-1300 (while avoiding the last few outer coils). Haven't fully assembled the watch yet (waiting for some gen parts), but the winding action feels a lot better now, so definitely worth a try.