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Rolex Sub from ZF - BROKEN in three weeks

JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
Well, I woke up this morning and noticed that my Sub had stopped moving. I've had it for about three weeks and am in love, so much so have just ordered 4 more watches.

However, when I started to test it noticed some SERIOUS problems. Firstly, I could turn the hour and minutes around like normal. It would go around for over 24 hours which was fine, what I did notice is that the date wouldn't tick over once the 24hrs had been completed. I tried this for multiple times to no avail.

From there, I tried to click the dates over, which worked and still works. Then I went to do the time movement again and it got really bad as now the hour hand gets stuck at midnight and the minute hand spins separate to the hour hand (and it's not smooth obviously). When I got back in time, the hour hand moves to the 9 marker and then get stuck, so it's now internally jammed between 9 and 12.

Also, the watch's automatic movement does not hold a charge.

This watch came from PureTime and cost a small fortune (well, in my opinion for a Rep - circa $700AUD) by the time it landed here after two months.

I know the #1 rule is to not send the watch back to China, which frankly I agree with. I am very handy and am planning on learning basic watchmaking - have already purchased the water proofing test machine, have silicone, have watchmaking tools - waiting on gaskets and the Rolex case back opener.

Any advice or thoughts on what I should do? Very unhappy right now.

Video of issue below:

https://youtu.be/uIMAz5kS5G4

Model details:

Submariner 116610 LN Black Ceramic ZF 1:1 Best Edition 904L SS Case and Bracelet VR3135

SKU: RLX2020091402-1

Link to PureTime model #

Asian Super Clone 3135 Automatic Movement at 28800 vph, blue spring, stable and good looking
 
Last edited:

40mm

Active Member
19/10/21
317
185
43
GreatWhiteNorth
That is terrible news. I share your pain as I purchased a submariner rep with a SA3135 movement in it that didn't even make it to 3 weeks. My solution was to buy a replacement VR3135 movement on eBay. I was able to install it myself. The hardest part was getting the hands back on and not touching anything with my hands.

Which movement is in your watch?
 

40mm

Active Member
19/10/21
317
185
43
GreatWhiteNorth
Here is a link to an Australian watchmaker that may be of help. I see there was a negative review however and don't know what the current status is.
 

JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
That is terrible news. I share your pain as I purchased a submariner rep with a SA3135 movement in it that didn't even make it to 3 weeks. My solution was to buy a replacement VR3135 movement on eBay. I was able to install it myself. The hardest part was getting the hands back on and not touching anything with my hands.

Which movement is in your watch?

Totally forgot to put that in, the model and details as below:

Submariner 116610 LN Black Ceramic ZF 1:1 Best Edition 904L SS Case and Bracelet VR3135

SKU: RLX2020091402-1

Link to PureTime model #

Asian Super Clone 3135 Automatic Movement at 28800 vph, blue spring, stable and good looking


I guess I'd like to know what the capable repair people think I could do?

In my mind:

Option #1 - Complain to PureTime, they say send it back, I'll be lucky to ever see it again.
Option #2 - Ask PureTime to send me a NEW movement that I can replace here myself, unsure how realistic that is.
Option #3 - Pull it apart and see if I can identify any issues. Most likely to happen regardless but unsure of how happy I am trying to fix a brand new clone when it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
 
Last edited:

40mm

Active Member
19/10/21
317
185
43
GreatWhiteNorth
Hopefully someone more experienced will chime in soon and diagnose the problem.

After watching your video, all I can think of is maybe the hour hand is mounted too low or is not level. Is it maybe hitting your dial markers at 9 and 12? If so that would not be very difficult to fix yourself.

If the problem is internal, a new VR3135 movement is probably the way to go vs trying repairs.

All of the reps I have bought since my SA3135 problem have had movements that I can replace with a genuine eta 2824 or 2836, just to be safe.
 
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JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
Hopefully someone more experienced will chime in soon and diagnose the problem.

After watching your video, all I can think of is maybe the hour hand is mounted too low or is not level. Is it maybe hitting your dial markers at 9 and 12? If so that would not be very difficult to fix yourself.

If the problem is internal, a new VR3135 movement is probably the way to go vs trying repairs.

All of the reps I have bought since my SA3135 problem have had movements that I can replace with a genuine eta 2824 or 2836, just to be safe.

Thanks again for the fast response. Where would you advise getting a new VR3135 movement from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Thanks again for the fast response. Where would you advise getting a new VR3135 movement from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are a couple of members here who sell vr3135s in the parts sales forum. Would recommend buying from one of them.
 
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JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
There are a couple of members here who sell vr3135s in the parts sales forum. Would recommend buying from one of them.

Thank you for the response. Will take a look. I’ll still look to contact PureTime and also pull it apart. New movement is the last resort.
 

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
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I wouldn't send it back. If you don't, many times a TD will only offer a discount on a future purchase. Sometimes they will issue you a small refund toward a repair. You should pursue some compensation and take what you can get. You can prove the issue with your video.

The movement shown on the listing is the VR3135, which is the best one. This should not have happened but sometimes it does. Try not to get soured on the hobby completely. I've had dozens of reps received without any movement issues. I also had a few that were bad and one or two essentially DOA. I have some 3 years old or more still running well.

From your symptoms it sounds like a gear issue - maybe teeth mangled or missing, or contaminants (hair, dirt, etc) blocking proper operation. It may require extensive disassembly to identify it completely. At that point, a cleaning and re-lubing would be advisable, basically a full servicing. So unless you are prepared to do that it's probably best to let a more experienced person handle it. An expensive watch you care a lot about is not one to practice and learn on. There will be mistakes. Hands and dial are easily scratched or bent until you acquire some skills.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:

JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
I wouldn't send it back. If you don't, many times a TD will only offer a discount on a future purchase. Sometimes they will issue you a small refund toward a repair. You should pursue some compensation and take what you can get. You can prove the issue with your video.

The movement shown on the listing is the VR3135, which is the best one. This should not have happened but sometimes it does. Try not to get soured on the hobby completely. I've had dozens of reps received without any movement issues. I also had a few that were bad and one or two essentially DOA. I have some 3 years old or more still running well.

From your symptoms it sounds like a gear issue - maybe teeth mangled or missing, or contaminants (hair, dirt, etc) blocking proper operation. It may require extensive disassembly to identify it completely. At that point, a cleaning and re-lubing would be advisable, basically a full servicing. So unless you are prepared to do that it's probably best to let a more experienced person handle it. An expensive watch you care a lot about is not one to practice and learn on. There will be mistakes. Hands and dial are easily scratched or bent until you acquire some skills.

Good luck!

Appreciate the experienced advice. I was/am planning on "taking a look under the hood" but from looking through threads on here like the one PsychoTee16 created I am somewhat a little more tentative, as in reality to do it right would require a serious investment in the correct tools and lubricants and also, frankly, a lot of time studying and learning which as you've aptly pointed out, I'll likely make mistakes early on.

I'll contact PureTime, and will also look under the hood when I get the case back opener and report back.
 

mech500

Mythical Poster
6/4/12
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Honestly don’t tinker with it...acted all it cost you a “small fortune”.

Send it to a forum watchmaker - which might have to be in Asia. Best to learn on cheaper watches. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using RWI
 
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JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
Honestly don’t tinker with it...acted all it cost you a “small fortune”.

Send it to a forum watchmaker - which might have to be in Asia. Best to learn on cheaper watches. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using RWI

Don’t take my melodramatic statements too seriously, I’ve tinkered with far more expensive toys, sometimes with success, sometimes not so much.

My sentiment is that I’m pretty peeved that after all the research time and yes, money, it’s broken like a cheap DH Gate/back alleyway fake, not like a “super clone”.
 
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JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
Well, couldn’t resist. Case back open.

09df187b8eeda7a3be1313fec90e22a3.jpg


Video: https://youtube.com/shorts/eFFbFeTVkxQ?feature=share
 
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keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Recommend that if you’re going to dig in under the hood, that you invest in a good set of tools. I started out with cheap tools and immediately regretted it… I’ve easily spent $1k (Cdn) on tools (I went cheap first, and then had to replace them with better ones pretty much right away), and I only got started into modding just in September. I’ve had good luck with the Kwong Yuen brand on aliexpress - nicer than the cheap stuff, but not wallet breaking like Bergeon. They come magnetized, but I just ran them through a degausser and that was that. For tweezers, IMO go all out on a nice pair… lol.

If you decide to remove the hands and dial, get the Bergeon vinyl sheet protectors and a quality set of hand removers. My first set of hand removal levers broke after the 2nd use, and those stiffer light coloured dial protectors often just get in the way because of hand / dial clearance issues.

A great tip for reinstalling the hands is to use Rodico on the end of a wooden toothpick to stick on the hand while you place it over the pinion. As KJ2020 mentioned, this is where you risk visible damage… I made the mistake of trying a dial and hands swap for the first time on a gen polar dial and well… my wallet had a good cry after that learning experience haha.

Good luck!
 
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p0pperini

patr0n h0arder
Gold Patron
Certified
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Recommend that if you’re going to dig in under the hood, that you invest in a good set of tools. I started out with cheap tools and immediately regretted it… I’ve easily spent $1k (Cdn) on tools (I went cheap first, and then had to replace them with better ones pretty much right away), and I only got started into modding just in September. I’ve had good luck with the Kwong Yuen brand on aliexpress - nicer than the cheap stuff, but not wallet breaking like Bergeon. They come magnetized, but I just ran them through a degausser and that was that. For tweezers, IMO go all out on a nice pair… lol.

If you decide to remove the hands and dial, get the Bergeon vinyl sheet protectors and a quality set of hand removers. My first set of hand removal levers broke after the 2nd use, and those stiffer light coloured dial protectors often just get in the way because of hand / dial clearance issues.

A great tip for reinstalling the hands is to use Rodico on the end of a wooden toothpick to stick on the hand while you place it over the pinion. As KJ2020 mentioned, this is where you risk visible damage… I made the mistake of trying a dial and hands swap for the first time on a gen polar dial and well… my wallet had a good cry after that learning experience haha.

JNSD All the above is excellent advice, but... don't do any of this on the ZF. Buy a few DHGate cheapies and start getting used to watch disassembly/reassembly on those, to test out tools on. Get a couple of cheap Sub lookalikes with glossy dials and practice removing/preplacing hands without getting marks all over the dial. Buy a couple of asian ETA movements to get started on practicing movement stripping and servicing.

Unless you really don't care about wrecking this one in the name of research (and our entertainment).
 

JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
Recommend that if you’re going to dig in under the hood, that you invest in a good set of tools. I started out with cheap tools and immediately regretted it… I’ve easily spent $1k (Cdn) on tools (I went cheap first, and then had to replace them with better ones pretty much right away), and I only got started into modding just in September. I’ve had good luck with the Kwong Yuen brand on aliexpress - nicer than the cheap stuff, but not wallet breaking like Bergeon. They come magnetized, but I just ran them through a degausser and that was that. For tweezers, IMO go all out on a nice pair… lol.

If you decide to remove the hands and dial, get the Bergeon vinyl sheet protectors and a quality set of hand removers. My first set of hand removal levers broke after the 2nd use, and those stiffer light coloured dial protectors often just get in the way because of hand / dial clearance issues.

A great tip for reinstalling the hands is to use Rodico on the end of a wooden toothpick to stick on the hand while you place it over the pinion. As KJ2020 mentioned, this is where you risk visible damage… I made the mistake of trying a dial and hands swap for the first time on a gen polar dial and well… my wallet had a good cry after that learning experience haha.

Good luck!

REALLY appreciate the response and brand recommendations from Ali Express, I'll DM you with a few links to see what you think.
 

JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
JNSD All the above is excellent advice, but... don't do any of this on the ZF. Buy a few DHGate cheapies and start getting used to watch disassembly/reassembly on those, to test out tools on. Get a couple of cheap Sub lookalikes with glossy dials and practice removing/preplacing hands without getting marks all over the dial. Buy a couple of asian ETA movements to get started on practicing movement stripping and servicing.

Unless you really don't care about wrecking this one in the name of research (and our entertainment).

Appreciate this advice as well, I think it's a good idea and a smart one. I'm just so impatient and waiting for fake Subs from DH gate could be after Christmas... GAHHHHHHHHH.

I'll see how long it'll take for the tools to get here and calculate if I will last that long! I do agree that mistakes will be made, no matter how confident/competent I am with my hands and mechanical prowess I do know from experience that there will be issues. Even when I pulled out the whole movement from the case last night I somewhat panicked as I was like "what the hell do I do with this now?" I had no holder to put it into and realised very quickly that you do need a baseline of the proper tools to even start this.

The removal of the hands is the thing that worries me the most as I know that this alone could be game over.

I am in two minds though, currently, it's broken. So either I try to fix it and if there are issues like broken hands then at least I put it all on the backburner and order parts and then build up the arsenal and become competent over the next few months. OR I pull off a miracle and fix it. I do think there's going to be a gear issue when I get it all open, which will raise the question can you even get replacement gears for these movements or do they have to be Gen??

One question I do have is about magnification. What does everyone use? I have a headset that has multiple magnifications and has served me well in all other hobbies but I'm curious as this is a hobby that requires SERIOUS magnification and it's critical to be able to see well and have the workspace lit well.
 

p0pperini

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One question I do have is about magnification. What does everyone use?
I've got a wide range of magnifying gear, but by far the best investment I made for working at movement level was a stereo microscope. I posted a short review of it here:

https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?...oure-doing-thought-about-trying-a-microscope/

It may seem OTT, but it's been a real eye-opener for me... :)

Regarding hand removal and pressing - yes, you're right to be concerned about this stage! I started out practicing on 2813 movements, and broke the seconds pinion off on a couple before I got the knack. You're unlikely to break hands, but if any parts are damaged you could face months of searching and waiting for spares from a TD or hunting on M2M.

Anyway, good luck - and keep us updated on how you get on!
 

JNSD

You're Saying I Can Sell?
30/7/21
90
40
0
Australia
I've got a wide range of magnifying gear, but by far the best investment I made for working at movement level was a stereo microscope. I posted a short review of it here:

https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?...oure-doing-thought-about-trying-a-microscope/

It may seem OTT, but it's been a real eye-opener for me... :)

Regarding hand removal and pressing - yes, you're right to be concerned about this stage! I started out practicing on 2813 movements, and broke the seconds pinion off on a couple before I got the knack. You're unlikely to break hands, but if any parts are damaged you could face months of searching and waiting for spares from a TD or hunting on M2M.

Anyway, good luck - and keep us updated on how you get on!

Jesus, now I want a 225x stereo microscope. Thanks a LOT. lol lol lol

I'll update with success and failures as they happen!
 
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