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What I don't understand about the rep industry illegal status

csthe

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I've been around the rep game for several years now. In the last year alone I've purchased over 20 watches for our respected TDs.
From the day I've discovered this industry, there is a sense of illegal / secrecy vibe.
TDs charging 50%-100% fee on reps to cover their cost of doing (illegal) business. Hiding their true names and faces to prevent capture.
Factories are shutting down by the Chinese police every once in a while.
Customs all over the world counterfeiting watches.
...
However, I was able to buy more than 20 watches in the last year, the TDs section (and m2m) is full of life (and transactions), TDs sites are up and running without changing domain for months.

So what is going on here?
When it comes to other illegal merchandise like drugs, weapons, people, software, illegal pornography and etc, the trades are done in the dark web, under extreme paranoid measures. But here everything is out in the open.

Every US law enforcement officer can search replica watches and arrive here, make some transactions with the TDs, shut down their site, ask PayPal for the bank account in China and cooperate with the Chinese police to arrest them, from them to the distribution and to the factories. The minute a new site is published (so we can buy) it will start again.
This is why other illegal industries don't have sites like that, don't do business over PayPal and sending goods using FedEx...

Plus the Chinese are investing a lot to move from labor economy to IP economy (I know that from the software industry I'm working in). They want to stop all IP violations in China because they understand that for the long term it will hurt them. The western world (US and Switzerland in this case) also have a great interest to stop this industry (B$ industry, taxes, import fees).

So this makes me believe that maybe it is just not that important to stop this industry or there is no governmental budget for this issue, or this is actually a marketing aid for gen companies (see it as a getaway drug for gens) and they don't want to stop it (just makes it looks like by stopping a factory or a watch here and there). Any option that you choose leads to the same conclusion: it probably not that risky and mysterious, just marketing...

To be clear, I respect our TDs and buy from them a lot, just wondering...

What do you think?
 

Cheeps

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I’m by no means an expert in that field, but I don’t see a reason why the Chinese government would really pursue the factories. More western money in China is good for China. Only strengthens them. Occasionally a factory get closed, but that’s probably because the factory didn’t pay enough to the government :D.

Additionally, US has no jurisdiction in China.
 

efajri

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When an item is considered illegal, it means that it can harm people/society or cause monetary loss to people or organization/company.

Any sound government will prevent damage to its people/society or organizations/companies by stopping the illegal activity/trading/distribution/production etc.

Allies or the western block produce the most profitable goods/brands in the whole world, and they want to protect their maximum profit. With the help from WTO and other trade pacts, they are determined to stop the “illegal” activities that can cause profit loss by imposing a huge fine and criminilizing the people involved.

Because of it, factories, TDs and ourselves operate discreetly to avoid sanction or even criminalization. TD online shop is like a street performer at a sunday market which they can just packup and leave in a minute.

Big names companies like Rolex, Microsoft, LV, Disney, the music industry association and others who have billions of dollars spare some change and work with the authority to fight counterfeits on all fronts.

These multibillion dollar companies don’t see counterfeiting their products as a marketing scheme. It’s a threat to their profit. Let’s say you live in a nice apartment in Manhattan NY and creatively knit a wonderful winter scarves by hand in your spare time. I copy your scarves, use your name and logo and sell my production on ebay way cheaper because I live in a dingy apartment somewhere in thailand. I basically take a big chunk of your profit pie. So this is not the way big companies wish to market their product.


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KSwatches

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Chinese and American (for example) governments have no real incentive to clamp down hard on reps so Swiss watch companies can benefit.

Illegal drugs, guns, human trafficking etc severely damage society and economy, hence governments take more of an interest.
 

Tompa

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I don’t see him comparing the two


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Maybe you didnt read the text then..

So what is going on here?
When it comes to other illegal merchandise like drugs, weapons, people, software, illegal pornography and etc, the trades are done in the dark web, under extreme paranoid measures. But here everything is out in the open.




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csthe

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Maybe you didnt read the text then..

Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
I also added software, that I know for a fact that the Chinese are working very hard to prevent IP theft there. So it is not only "dangerous things to society"....
 
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csthe

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Chinese and American (for example) governments have no real incentive to clamp down hard on reps so Swiss watch companies can benefit.

Illegal drugs, guns, human trafficking etc severely damage society and economy, hence governments take more of an interest.

What about the Swiss government? the EU?
And the US also loss tons of $ every year from import fees and tax losses (like in any illegal importing).
And if you are right, why TDs claim it is dangerous business?
This is my point, one way or the other it does not make sense...
 

csthe

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These multibillion dollar companies don’t see counterfeiting their products as a marketing scheme. It’s a threat to their profit. Let’s say you live in a nice apartment in Manhattan NY and creatively knit a wonderful winter scarves by hand in your spare time. I copy your scarves, use your name and logo and sell my production on ebay way cheaper because I live in a dingy apartment somewhere in thailand. I basically take a big chunk of your profit pie. So this is not the way big companies wish to market their product.


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So you say it is "just" the gen industry against the rep industry? no government intervention? that is an interesting point, however, that is not the goal of the government (and regulators)? to ensure "fair" business?
 

rek0001

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This replica industry, there are many factories that make different parts for the watches, they are scattered all over. Obviously it's difficult for the authorities to crack down, and probably not worth the effort. Once in awhile they shut down a producer and make a big show of it.
 

efajri

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So you say it is "just" the gen industry against the rep industry? no government intervention? that is an interesting point, however, that is not the goal of the government (and regulators)? to ensure "fair" business?

I believe I mentioned that the multibillion dollar companies work with the authority (government) with the help of WTO and other organizations to stop the production/distribution of counterfeits. Government is all about tax and protecting legal business. If legal businesses are no longer profitable then the government don't get tax/duty/tariffs money. So there is motivation for the government to help out the gen industry.
 
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KSwatches

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What about the Swiss government? the EU?
And the US also loss tons of $ every year from import fees and tax losses (like in any illegal importing).
And if you are right, why TDs claim it is dangerous business?
This is my point, one way or the other it does not make sense...


EU authorities seize million of euros worth of counterfeit goods each month.

However, resources are limited so they have to prioritise enforcing gun, drug, trafficking laws...based on economic and security risk assessment. Reps ain’t gonna cause the sort of economic and security risks as illegal weapons.

TDs are right. Counterfeit business is “dangerous” but it’s all relative. Let’s see them start selling guns out of noob factory ... and see if that doesn’t attract the attention of world governments and security services.
 
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KSwatches

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So there is motivation for the government to help out the gen industry.


Yes absolutely agree however there’s no immediate incentive for any government to come down HARD-HARD on the little Chinese lady selling fake bags...unlike the terrorist down the road who is selling guns. Therefore, with limited resources the authorities have to prioritise law enforcement according.
 

KSwatches

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So it is harder to get a rep into the EU?

Generally speaking yes. We have you triangle ship via U.K. to get watches into a lot of EU countries.

If there was enough financial, economic and security incentive, Mr Trump would empty fakes out of canal street and impose 100% detail X-ray inspection of imported goods to identity fake watches....to keep Rolex in Switzerland happy (amongst others)
 
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nyriyadh

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Gen brands companies don’t care about rep market as they know rep market is NOT competing with themes because they know that at least 95% of people buying gen will not buy rep, but if you but a rep buyer could buy a gen.


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csthe

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Generally speaking yes. We have you triangle ship via U.K. to get watches into a lot of EU countries.

If there was enough financial, economic and security incentive, Mr Trump would empty fakes out of canal street and impose 100% detail X-ray inspection of imported goods to identity fake watches....to keep Rolex in Switzerland happy (amongst others)
I see, that's a fair point. If the EU invest more to keep reps out, it maybe a priority issue after all...
 
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csthe

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Gen brands companies don’t care about rep market as they know rep market is NOT competing with themes because they know that at least 95% of people buying gen will not buy rep, but if you but a rep buyer could buy a gen.


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I don't think that is 100% correct. I for example, spend over 8K$ a year on reps, I could buy a nice gen once a year (or two) with the same money. But I have the alternative to buy and try multiple watches and styles for the same amount using reps...