Having a play with my new light box.

[p0pperini]

What is the difference between a mirrorless and DSLR camera.

The main difference between a mirrorless camera and a DSLR is that there is no "pentaprism" assembly in a mirrorless camera. The pentaprism is the "mirror" part that allows a DSLR to have a viewfinder above the lens, giving a "through the lens" view of the subject - it's inside the boxy bit above the lens housing of a DSLR.

The removal of the pentaprism allows mirrorless cameras to be smaller and lighter. In being smaller and lighter, they've also tended to have smaller image sensors, which is where the quality difference between DSLR cameras and mirrorless cameras was also an issue. With the general development and improvement of sensors, this is becoming less of an issue.

 

[Hazing]

The main difference between a mirrorless camera and a DSLR is that there is no "pentaprism" assembly in a mirrorless camera. The pentaprism is the "mirror" part that allows a DSLR to have a viewfinder above the lens, giving a "through the lens" view of the subject - it's inside the boxy bit above the lens housing of a DSLR.

The removal of the pentaprism allows mirrorless cameras to be smaller and lighter. In being smaller and lighter, they've also tended to have smaller image sensors, which is where the quality difference between DSLR cameras and mirrorless cameras was also an issue. With the general development and improvement of sensors, this is becoming less of an issue.

So is there a picture that you can take with a mirror less that you can't take with a dslr? Or is it just basically size/weight.

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[Hazing]

On a side note, last night I took a Pic where I was playing with exposure.

But while I was doing it, my camera does kinda act up and is very glitchy and that makes me think I'm not as bad as I think. Maby of my problems possibly being my camera.

Isn't there a saying about a man who blames his equipment? Something like "a man who blames his equipment probably has faulty equipment"?

Because I was taking pics with a low apature setting in various focusing modes while trying to focus on the "Rolex" on the dial and I noticed it was focusing on everything but. The background.tge bracelet, the numbers on the insert. But I couldn't get it to focus in on the Rolex.

Like wtf? Irritating af. And this was just in aparute mode. I know it's overexposed. But if possible forget that for now (unless that is part of my problem).

Why am I having trouble with this? Is this just my camera? And at some point, I think I do have to address the glitchiness of my camera too.

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[p0pperini]

So is there a picture that you can take with a mirror less that you can't take with a dslr? Or is it just basically size/weight.

Size/weight is the only practical difference. And some photographers prefer to have a "traditional" camera, with shape and functionality as close as possible to the old 35mm SLR. With LCD screens and electronic viewfinders getting better all the time, the loss of a pentaprism viewfinder becomes less of an issue.

Even if you pick the centre of the scene as the focus point for auto-focus, the camera may struggle to focus on what's there, and will hunt back and forth trying to find it. Cameras use various algorithms to check the scene and find sharp edges. The watch dial, under glass, may not give it enough contrast to "see" the details to focus on.

So, if you're shooting a static object like a watch, you may find it easier to use manual focus. That way, you remove the option for the camera to decide what the important focal point is. In manual focus mode you should be able to see on the screen when the dial is in sharp focus, and hey presto! You've removed the need to rely on the camera's built-in system.

Your night lume photos (especially the first one) looks blurred - I think the camera moved. You should set the self-timer, so you can press the shutter and move away so it'll fire while nothing is touching the camera.

 

[Hazing]

Size/weight is the only practical difference. And some photographers prefer to have a "traditional" camera, with shape and functionality as close as possible to the old 35mm SLR. With LCD screens and electronic viewfinders getting better all the time, the loss of a pentaprism viewfinder becomes less of an issue.

Even if you pick the centre of the scene as the focus point for auto-focus, the camera may struggle to focus on what's there, and will hunt back and forth trying to find it. Cameras use various algorithms to check the scene and find sharp edges. The watch dial, under glass, may not give it enough contrast to "see" the details to focus on.

So, if you're shooting a static object like a watch, you may find it easier to use manual focus. That way, you remove the option for the camera to decide what the important focal point is. In manual focus mode you should be able to see on the screen when the dial is in sharp focus, and hey presto! You've removed the need to rely on the camera's built-in system.

Your night lume photos (especially the first one) looks blurred - I think the camera moved. You should set the self-timer, so you can press the shutter and move away so it'll fire while nothing is touching the camera.

Yeah it was a 30 second shot or almost 30 second shutter time from like 6 inches away so I’m sure there is movement so I knew it wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny but I am excited because it’s a shot I couldn’t have even conceived of taking not too long ago.

But back to the focus issue, my frustration originally started the day before, especially on the hulk (gen crystal) and I could see if focusing on the crystal instead of the dial. Or the reflection off the crystal. (Or on the crystal).

 

[Nanook65]

Yeah it was a 30 second shot or almost 30 second shutter time from like 6 inches away so I’m sure there is movement so I knew it wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny but I am excited because it’s a shot I couldn’t have even conceived of taking not too long ago.

But back to the focus issue, my frustration originally started the day before, especially on the hulk (gen crystal) and I could see if focusing on the crystal instead of the dial. Or the reflection off the crystal. (Or on the crystal).

Taking great pics in great lighting is easy. Taking great pics in crappy lighting or, worse yet, tough conditions and crappy lighting, is what challenges both the camera and the photographer.

Your 2nd lume pic isn't too bad. When your shutter needs to be open for anything more than 1/500th of a second or so that starts to be somewhat challenging lighting conditions. Anything over 1 second is 100% for sure a tripod situation. You can substitute a few other things if you don't have one, like setting the camera down, but you absolutely have to have the camera totally still or you will get a blurry pic.

Because you have the camera set to focus on its own it is choosing what it thinks you want to be in focus, but obviously it is not. I would strongly recommend avoiding the auto focusing mode at least until you learn how to focus on what YOU want. A few posts ago I showed you a pic of a girl in a white tee where he was showing you how to use spot focus. Use the spot focus 100% of the time until you figure out exposure. Just put these camera in the spot focus mode and put the little box over the "R" in Rolex brand name on the dial and you should eliminate a lot of your focusing issues.

Once you are able to do that consistently, start playing around with exposure and after you feel like you have mastered exposure go back and learn more about how the automatic focusing modes work.

As far as the debate of mirrorless vs dslr. Back when mirrorless first came out, mirrorless was clearly far behind. Pepperoni pointed out the differences correctly. Basically what you need to know is that to work equally well, mirrorless needs more computing power. The processors and sensors are getting better and better all the time. So much so that I think most would agree that there are likely more future sales in mirrorless than in traditional dslr. Mirrorless has closed the gap and all the major players are making excellent mirrorless cameras.

Camera makers slot cameras in 3 categories: Entry level, enthusiast/semi pro & Professional. The sony A6000 that you have is regarded as entry level. Even though it is regarded as entry level and my canon 40d is considered enthusiast your A6000 is specced much better in many ways. Of course over time all the companies have improved immensely. Entry level doesn't necessarily mean it is easier to use. It usually means cheaper construction using plastic instead of metal for example, it usually means lower specs & it won't be designed to last as well. It also usually means that they have intentionally designed the user interface with someone in mind that probably isn't going to learn how to use all the features. For example sometimes they leave off a viewfinder or they leave off certain features from dials or buttons and they make you access those features from a menu in an entry level camera where in one of the higher level cameras they might have a button or dial for quick access.

if you switched to a similarly priced dslr I really don't think you would see much of a difference in picture quality.

 

[Hazing]

Yeah... so I have the tripod ordered. Should have been here but everything is delayed. It should be here soon though. I went through one of those vids recommending settings last night and I will take a few pics later when I have some free time.

Also, I will go through that other video you linked that recommend settings and compare but also see how things work.

 

[Hazing]

Okay just a little update. I was away for a few days.

I had gone through a few YouTube vids on set up. 2 different ones on A6000s and that one you linked on the A6400 @kanook65. The A6000s were simple enough just a few variations based on the photographers opinions.

The A6400 seems to be an entirely different animal. Where the camera folder on the A6000 has 7 subfoldees, on the 6400 it has 14 or 15.


Anyway, rwi was down for a few days and I was away for a few days. I went fishing up to one of the lakes. I took my camera but haven't been able to do much with it as opposed to snapping a few pics and hoping.

I tried to pay attention to settings and everything but it was just a point and pray technique.

That being said I did get my tripod in. So maybe tomorrow I can try/start working on a few things and see if I can't back up and take a few nice watch pics.

Just some random pics I took. I snapped 100 or so nlbut most were... Aren't. Even potable.

I had a hard time getting the shutter speed right and getting the... Well I guess you could say i did struggle balancing shutter speed, that ev light (that mm number) and apature.

But this was doing a lot. Trying to hold. The dog, trying to take pics on a wavy surfce doing 30-50mph. With no where near enough time or focus.

But I'll be back at it tomorrow. Just didn't want you to think I dropped off.

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[Nanook65]

Okay just a little update. I was away for a few days.

Hey, no problem

Just some random pics I took. I snapped 100 or so nlbut most were... Aren't. Even potable.
I had a hard time getting the shutter speed right and getting the... Well I guess you could say i did struggle balancing shutter speed, that ev light (that mm number) and apature.
But this was doing a lot. Trying to hold. The dog, trying to take pics on a wavy surfce doing 30-50mph. With no where near enough time or focus.

Tough conditions, but it looks like you had a nice weekend. In the pics you posted the primary issue is focus. Without knowing your settings it is a little hard to tell, but if I was to guess I would say you/your camera is focusing on something other than what you would want. Look at the last one where the dog is pretty badly out of focus. If you look at the rest of the pic you can see that there are other things in the pic that are in focus so this is most likely not due to too slow a shutter speed or camera movement.

But I'll be back at it tomorrow. Just didn't want you to think I dropped off.

Glad to hear

 

[p0pperini]

Look at the last one where the dog is pretty badly out of focus. If you look at the rest of the pic you can see that there are other things in the pic that are in focus so this is most likely not due to too slow a shutter speed or camera movement.

I generally agree with every bit of your advice Nanook65 - but on this occasion I have to say I didn't see the same issue.

To me, those images all look pretty sharp, apart from the elements that are affected by a relatively slow shutter speed, and are consequently blurred because of it. There's motion blur on the sea in the third shot, and in the last shot, everything is pretty sharp except for the dog's head and the sea, which again look to be affected by motion blur.

What I'm really not sure about is why - given the very good lighting conditions - the shutter speed would be low enough for the motion blur to occur.

It would be interesting to take a look at the EXIF data for the images.

 

[Nanook65]

It would be interesting to take a look at the EXIF data for the images.

Popperini brings up a good point. Lets see the EXIF data for a few of the pics that you posted from the weekend. That will make it a lot easier to determine what the issue is. I am confident you could have looked it up, but just in case here is a good explanation of what EXIF data is:
[h=2]What is EXIF Data?[/h]
Exchangeable Image File Format (EXIF) is a standard that defines specific information related to an image or other media captured by a digital camera. It is capable of storing such important data as camera exposure, date/time the image was captured, and even GPS location.

Back in the early film days, photographers were forced to carry a pen and a notepad with them to record important information such as shutter speed, aperture, and date. They would then use this information in the lab, going through one picture at a time, hoping that what they wrote actually corresponds to the right image. It was a very painful process, especially for newbies who wanted to understand what they did wrong when an image didn’t come out right.

Nowadays, every modern digital camera has the capability to record this information, along with many other camera settings and other relevant data, right into photographs. These settings can then be later used to organize photographs, perform searches, and provide vital information to photographers about the way a particular photograph was captured. Such stored data is called “EXIF Data”, and it is comprised of a range of settings such as ISO speed, shutter speed, aperture, white balance, camera model and make, date and time, lens used, focal length, and much more.

 

[Hazing]

I started writing this reply yesterday but got pulled away and had to have another go at it this morning.

So... This was the problem I was having, outside I was amazed how limited I was.

I had no Control over anything. If I tried to Control my shutter speed (more specifically lower it) to take a Pic of a moving object, my apature would often go down too. Sometimes to like 3. And when my apature went down that low, I knew it was going to be a bad Pic. Especially when rocking around on a boat.

I was also amazed how I'd be holding the camera as steady as I can with my hand and just the movement of the boat, the apature would have wide shifts from 3 to 17 to 11 to 3. All in one second. It would be flickering - the apature. And I remember wondering how am I supposed to take a Pic I want if I don't know what the apature is going to be when presses the button to take the Pic?

Or when I switched to apature mode.... The shutter speed sometimes lobbed up to multiple seconds which I knew there was no way I could control or hold steady.

And I experienced a number of other problems I forget at the moment.

It makes me wonder... And I'm curious about how another camera would perform. Like is it just this camera that is this finicky. Is it broke? When the stores open again, I want to check out a new/different camera just to see.

My cousin just had a baby and they went out and bought a cannon dslr. He never used a camera before in his life and he can take excellent pics with it.

I mean I can't even take a decent Pic in auto mode which makes me think it can't all be me. Ya know? Or can it?

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[Nanook65]

............
I had no Control over anything. If I tried to Control my shutter speed (more specifically lower it) to take a Pic of a moving object, my apature would often go down too. Sometimes to like 3. And when my apature went down that low, I knew it was going to be a bad Pic. Especially when rocking around on a boat.

I was also amazed how I'd be holding the camera as steady as I can with my hand and just the movement of the boat, the apature would have wide shifts from 3 to 17 to 11 to 3. All in one second. It would be flickering - the apature. And I remember wondering how am I supposed to take a Pic I want if I don't know what the apature is going to be when presses the button to take the Pic?

Or when I switched to apature mode.... The shutter speed sometimes lobbed up to multiple seconds which I knew there was no way I could control or hold steady.

Something doesn't seem right here...
If I remember right, your lens won't even open up to f-3.0...
In any case I suggest when shooting outside under normal conditions shooting in either Automatic mode or better yet mostly in Aperture mode. If outside in the day in anything other than dark heavy overcast skies set ISO to 200, Set your Aperture to 8 and let the shutter speed fluctuate to get an appropriate exposure. For today, just try that and see if you can figure out how to focus on some normal things. Stand 20 feet away from a stop sign and see if you can get it in focus. move to 10' from that same stop sign, how abou 50 or 100'. Do some basic stuff like that 1st and concentrate on the camera's focusing system. You should see that your camera will make the shutter speed fluctuate and clouds come and go etc. With good outside lighting you should see shutter speeds like 1/1000s or something like that, but it will depend a LOT on the lighting. High sunny skies are many multiples brighter than high clouds and high clouds can be many multiples brighter than poor inside lighting.

It makes me wonder... And I'm curious about how another camera would perform. Like is it just this camera that is this finicky. Is it broke? When the stores open again, I want to check out a new/different camera just to see.

After doing what I suggested, post 1 or 2 pics with the EXIF Data like we suggested earlier and we can all critique and make suggestions.

My cousin just had a baby and they went out and bought a cannon dslr. He never used a camera before in his life and he can take excellent pics with it.

Well, Cannon does have an easier menu system, but honestly you should be able to produce equally good pics with what you have.

 

[Hazing]

On a side note, Tapatalk sucks. I got 20+ "upload failed" notifications while trying to post these.

Eta tapa only uploaded 3 of the 4 pics and I'm trying to re-add the 4th but keep getting upload errors.

 

[Hazing]

So keep in mind these weren't really any significant attempts to take great shots.

A few came out decent I should saw but there were people in them or maybe somewhat not appropriate to post.

I took the camera with me to practice and use but also just in case an opportunity came up to get a picture of the boat which I've been talking to my friend about.

But for the most part, I think 90% of the pics I took were while the moving. The boat was cruising between 30 and 50 mph so I wasn't expecting much. And in addition to the boat moving, the dog wouldn't stay still for a second.

So as an example, in that 1 Pic where everything is in focus but the dog, I think that's mostly the dog shaking her head. Like in real life, I couldn't get anything to stay still.

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[p0pperini]

Hi Hazing,

I notice from your screenshots that your aperture (f-number) was extremely high - which is what caused the motion blur, as the shutter speed had to drop to take account of the very small aperture being set.

As I've mentioned previously (and Nanook mentioned above), for general and landscape photography you really don't need to set an aperture number more than f8. f11 is as high as you'll ever need to go - that will be getting the entire scene sharp from foreground to background. Because your aperture was around f18 to f22, your shutter speed dropped to speeds (1/60th to 1/80th sec) where moving objects blurred. To avoid blurred pictures, you really want the shutter speed to be around 1/125th sec or higher.

And again, as mentioned before, when taking general outdoor shots, your best option is to put the camera in Aperture Priority (A) mode, and set the aperture to the "all-purpose" setting of f8. Depending on the light, your shutter speed will then fluctuate but should be fine unless the light gets low.

You can also set the ISO to auto, which will help to keep the shutter speed up if shooting in conditions with less light - the camera will increase the ISO if there's less light, rather than drop the shutter speed (you can also normally set a maximum ISO so the camera won't go higher than, say, ISO 800).

You're doing an awful lot of reading around the subject - keep at it and the principles will eventually start to make sense and stick!

Regarding the camera playing up and not working as expected - there's always the possibility there's a fault with it. So it's worth getting it checked out.

 

[Nanook65]

Hi Hazing,

I notice from your screenshots that your aperture (f-number) was extremely high - which is what caused the motion blur, as the shutter speed had to drop to take account of the very small aperture being set.

As I've mentioned previously (and Nanook mentioned above), for general and landscape photography you really don't need to set an aperture number more than f8. f11 is as high as you'll ever need to go - that will be getting the entire scene sharp from foreground to background. Because your aperture was around f18 to f22, your shutter speed dropped to speeds (1/60th to 1/80th sec) where moving objects blurred. To avoid blurred pictures, you really want the shutter speed to be around 1/125th sec or higher.

And again, as mentioned before, when taking general outdoor shots, your best option is to put the camera in Aperture Priority (A) mode, and set the aperture to the "all-purpose" setting of f8. Depending on the light, your shutter speed will then fluctuate but should be fine unless the light gets low.

You can also set the ISO to auto, which will help to keep the shutter speed up if shooting in conditions with less light - the camera will increase the ISO if there's less light, rather than drop the shutter speed (you can also normally set a maximum ISO so the camera won't go higher than, say, ISO 800).

You're doing an awful lot of reading around the subject - keep at it and the principles will eventually start to make sense and stick!

Regarding the camera playing up and not working as expected - there's always the possibility there's a fault with it. So it's worth getting it checked out.

Popperini knows what he is talking about too. Everything he says is right. One comment though 1/125th of a second to get things to not blurr from either camera shake or from subject movement is not a hard and fast rule. Different conditions and depending on your lens, your physical conditions (windy, boat moving or tripod all very different), what your subject is doing etc this could need to be 1/500th or even 1/1000th of a second to stop everything. You are moving around on a boat going 40mph with the wind and nothing to hold your camera still and the dog shaking its head etc your shutter is open WAY too long @ 1/60th (around where yours were) to stop everything. You have plenty of light, shutter speed should be at least 1/500th or even 1/1000 in those conditions.

You will learn. Keep at it. I think your camera is probably fine, but like Popperini says it wouldn't hurt to go into a camera shop when they open and have someone play with it a bit. All the people at Camera shops love cameras and they are usually happy to do this sort of thing. They should be able to tell in a few minutes. Then they are going to want to sell you a better lens or 2.

 

[Nanook65]

On a side note, Tapatalk sucks. I got 20+ "upload failed" notifications while trying to post these.

There is something wrong with the way the website is loading things right now. The mods know about it and are working on it, but I agree that it is frustrating. I have found the best thing is to just click the "Post Reply" button and then as soon as it gives you the error message, which it almost always does, just hit refresh and most of the time your message will be posted.

 

[Hazing]

Hi Hazing,

I notice from your screenshots that your aperture (f-number) was extremely high - which is what caused the motion blur, as the shutter speed had to drop to take account of the very small aperture being set.

As I've mentioned previously (and Nanook mentioned above), for general and landscape photography you really don't need to set an aperture number more than f8. f11 is as high as you'll ever need to go - that will be getting the entire scene sharp from foreground to background. Because your aperture was around f18 to f22, your shutter speed dropped to speeds (1/60th to 1/80th sec) where moving objects blurred. To avoid blurred pictures, you really want the shutter speed to be around 1/125th sec or higher.

And again, as mentioned before, when taking general outdoor shots, your best option is to put the camera in Aperture Priority (A) mode, and set the aperture to the "all-purpose" setting of f8. Depending on the light, your shutter speed will then fluctuate but should be fine unless the light gets low.

You can also set the ISO to auto, which will help to keep the shutter speed up if shooting in conditions with less light - the camera will increase the ISO if there's less light, rather than drop the shutter speed (you can also normally set a maximum ISO so the camera won't go higher than, say, ISO 800).

You're doing an awful lot of reading around the subject - keep at it and the principles will eventually start to make sense and stick!

Regarding the camera playing up and not working as expected - there's always the possibility there's a fault with it. So it's worth getting it checked out.

So... 1st I’ll mention my problem with the camera. Let’s say I set it to Aperture mode (or any mode) and I place it down on the table in front of me, my lcd screen toggles betweeen random modes like it’s just being spun. I figured it was just a glitchy selector because I tap the button to take the pic (is this button called something. I feel like I should know it by now.) and it resets to the correct mode. It’s just like shows that initial screen for each mode for half a second randomly. But it seems to stay in the mode it’s set one just fine. But occasionally, the initial screeen that says “manual. This setting is for...blah blah blah” will pop on. And then it goes back to whatever it’s set on. It’s thought to explain but because this is happening it makes me wonder. I figure I’d bring it to the camera shop up the street when things start opening. And Nanook65 think it operates fine too. I don’t want to seem like I a, blaming my equipment but something is happening although I don’t think it effects the settings but 1. maybe they can tell me why it is doing that and if it is a big deal and 2. I just want to make sure I’m not operating equipment that is making things more difficult for me.

and most of the time, it’s not a big deal but sometimes irritating. Like the other day I was transferring 8mages to my phone and it was uploading 100 or something images, going through them one at a time and around image 80 it switched modes and cancelled the whole process and I had to start over. Which meant 80 duplicate pics on my phone or go Through the camera and select 20 manually. Not the end of the world either way but irritating and also a signal thatSomething is not operating as it should

okay... @popperoni - yes, you’re right. Now that you mention that about the aperture mode, I remember you saying it but I never really put it in the context of selecting a more moderate setting because of all of this is a delicate balancing act between settings.

my thought was... “I’m having focusing issues (by focusing issues, I mean I can’t seem to focus in on what i want to focus in on) so let me set the aperture as high as it can go so my depth of field is as wide or deep as possible. I completely remember reading it from both you and Nanook but just being out there in the moment, taking a landscape pic, the thought of balancing my settings never occurred to me. Or it didn’t occur to me as much as it should have. And I’m glad that I posted these just to get that feedback because my original thought was posting them would have no purpose.

Instead of trying to find a balance, my initial thought/instinct is to battle the camera and the settings and as I’m standing there holding the camera in hand but relatively still, I see the Aperture setting bounce from F-3 to F15 to F-22 all in one second. And this is another concern I have with the mode selector switch toggling on its own. I just want to be sure that it’s not toggling other settings because in that moment, that is what went through my mind.

but with all that being said...

wait hold on, I’m going to start a new post.

 

[Hazing]

With all that being said, not having even 1 good Pic of a watch under my belt, I'm out trying to take landscape pics out of my depth and I haven't taken a Pic of a watch in a while.

So back to the basics. I just wanted to try and take a few pics now that I have some understanding of a few basic principles.

I'm still having lighting and framing issues where some are too dark and too light but I understand (I think) depth of field and how to focus now.

So that's awesome.

I mean depending on my aperture setting, I still have pics that come out like this. I just have to remember to try to look at all the settings.

But for the most part, they're leaps and bounds. Better than what they were when we first started.

Nanook65 the pics I took were just to sort of ground myself.

I'll take and post the pics you mentioned in a bit just to see how they turn out. And you're correct. My cameras lowest setting is 3.5. Is that what you meant?