you might push this statement to brands such as omega, Longines and so on imo....
what reps have become today is really impressive in term of finish and details...these are like Ferrari ....with a fiat motor unfortunately :-(
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ZF start to make the 1:1 AP 15202
- Thread starter kobe24
- Start date
you might push this statement to brands such as omega, Longines and so on imo....
what reps have become today is really impressive in term of finish and details...these are like Ferrari ....with a fiat motor unfortunately :-(
SuperLory
Well-Known Repist
- 22/10/15
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I think I know a thing or 2 about the market. Also if a cloned movement is a fiat then the 7S26 of a seiko skx is what ? My son's tricycle ?
Pdatoon
Renowned Member
- 2/2/19
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Are you comparing a rep factory who probably has its production line inside the basement of a shoe factory with a dodgy QC department, and a japanese brand with 139 years of watch making history, a billion dollar production line and probably an ISO certified QC process?
I don't have technical knowledge unfortunately, I wrote this because the main problem with reps are servicing at least that's my main concern.
i am in an area where servicing such watch is almost impossible and I don't see myself sending back and forth watches to our friend in Spore everytime they need to be serviced.
I haven't been lucky so far with reps caliber getting in trouble after very little wrist time. Last purchased I had the watch serviced before getting it, hopefully it is just a question of assembly and not a question of mechanic like you seem to mention...
i have no clue about fake watches factories, but do not underestimate what asian are able to achieve in term of QC when they really want it, when the client is paying the price of a good QC they can be over any European standards, even though like you say they are working in a shiny place. Only problem most of European company moving to Asia are moving to reduce costs, and so in the same time they also reduce quality control.
for my business, I visited several manufacturing companies in Taiwan and china, and trust me plenty of them are able to be in line at least with a German quality std.
For your information, unfortunately iso certified doesn't mean anything when we talk about the quality of a product unlike many are thinking. TUv for example certifies the methods and the rules are respected to build the product and of course that there is a "certain"* consistency in the production.
* in short if the product is shit you have the guarranty** to get a full batch of shit, BUT well documented.
** in reality plenty of Southern European companies are good to document plenty of QC and tests to match their certification while in reality they still have inconsistent production tolerances.
to give you an example i was working some years ago for an iso certified italian company very well rated by TUV, we were absolutely not able to maintain anodization color quality and stability from batch to batch and also within the same batch ....
You're talking absolute rubbish.
You visit manufacturing places in China congrats. I assume you're not trying to make illegal goods?
These guys are. They work in small batch factories where each factory makes a small component and is then sent onto an assembly "factory". Factory in this case could be a small back room. Things change in this world, things are not stable. It is illegal, raids happen. Machines get seized... workers get imprisoned.
You're comparing the legal world of stability, with the unpredictability of the illegal counterfeit goods world.
They might have 1-2 workers whom are very skilled at making the right case for example. The authorities raid them, and boom 2 workers are locked up and taken away from that business for x time. They have to retrain workers, maybe the quality goes down as a result, maybe it increases. Who knows.
The point is, this isn't a legitimate operation. You cannot hold them to the same standards.
People like to talk shit and say "her der, the factory v2 is worse than v1 on purpose, so we'll buy v3" Truth is, it's more likely that they've had a supply issue on one area of the components. And rather than not push a product to market, they make do with the subpar component.
This is organised crime, not legitimate factories. Stop kidding yourself.
What are you talking about ? do you have a problem with my English not being good enough for you ?
I am not comparing anything I just corrected someone's wrong statement about quality in Asia and iso certification and product quality experienced from OTHER INDUSTRIES...
Stop quoting post without having a clue of what is written inside, I can't understand why do you quote a message without reading ....
:thanks:
Pdatoon
Renowned Member
- 2/2/19
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You should apply the same advice to yourself... I never said anything about quality in Asia (Seiko is in Asia too you know). I was pointing out that it is completely irrelevant to compare an illegal rep business with a well known established brand like Seiko.
PS : I have visited the biggest watch manufacturers factory in China/hk too. I do work in the industry.
there is a misunderstanding, as I never visited any of the watch manufacturers, I am absolutely not in this kind of business, and I have absolutely no clue how this industry does work... that said, I pmed you to explain as this discussion is off topic, and useless for the community ...
cheers,
E.
My learned friend you are correct.
The rep watch industry and the legit watch making business are separated by an uncrossable gulf, and have nothing to do with each other, and linked only by one copying ideas from the other.
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Based on old member's experience about ZF as a factory which I personally don't have any...
How long it usually takes for them to release a watch they announce that it's under development and production to be released?
How long it usually takes for them to release a watch they announce that it's under development and production to be released?
srhoque
Put Some Respect On My Name
- 28/11/18
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Short answer - No one knows
These rep makers don't operate like legal organized business entities. Most often, they buy a gen model and then reverse engineer the parts. Then the "assembly" factories like ZF/XF look to setup parts suppliers. The parts suppliers look to reuse existing parts or have to setup assembly line for new ones. Because this is an illegal operation and they have to deal with fall outs (like raids, constantly moving around to maintain secrecy, shifting daily labor market, retraining, pandemic etc.), there is no established timeline for any of their activities. Also, I personally think that these rep factories are running for profit and money making is their primary concerns. If they are making enough money from existing models/parts, there is no motivation or incentive to do new ones.
I don't have any ZF products, but ZF made an announcement through kobe24 that a new Rolex DateJust 41 would be introduced sometime in June 2020. It is almost August and still no word on that model. So its anybody's guess on when a new ZF model will be released, especially in these pandemic times.
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I’ve been waiting over a year since they teased they were working on the 40mm Blancpain fifty fathom
models. They still aren’t out yet.
other times they move pretty quickly so we will see, there is no gauge for them I don’t think.
I'm starting to loose interest in this ZF 15202 iteration, its taking way too long. Kobe24 did state it won't be as thin as the current XF model so unless ZF has other significant improvements over XF, the ZF is on hold for me.
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Same here. I have too waited too long. All this time not even some photos. Who knows if they even work on that.