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Is ROO dead?

legend

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What I realized personally to get me away from AP frankens for good, was the fact that even with gen hands and dial and all, without a gen movement, the build will always be limited to closed case backs, older model ones. Throw in a gen movement complete with datewheel and rotor and all, and the cost becomes inhibitive when compared with a gen. And yes, the LWO283 is widely acknowledged to be the replacement movement for the gen cal. 3126/3840 but it is far from perfect for use in AP ROOs. We simply have no other choice.
I personally do like the ceramic crown and pushers/open caseback models so the decision was made one day to simply stop building frankens and buying ROO reps.
 
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csthe

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What I realized personally to get me away from AP frankens for good, was the fact that even with gen hands and dial and all, without a gen movement, the build will always be limited to closed case backs, older model ones. Throw in a gen movement complete with datewheel and rotor and all, and the cost becomes inhibitive when compared with a gen. And yes, the LWO283 is widely acknowledged to be the replacement movement for the gen cal. 3126/3840 but it is far from perfect for use in AP ROOs. We simply have no other choice.
I personally do like the ceramic crown and pushers/open caseback models so the decision was made one day to simply stop building frankens and buying ROO reps.
Could not agree more. Just to add, it is not the accuracy of the open caseback, but the thickness it adds...
 

Revolper

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What I realized personally to get me away from AP frankens for good, was the fact that even with gen hands and dial and all, without a gen movement, the build will always be limited to closed case backs, older model ones. Throw in a gen movement complete with datewheel and rotor and all, and the cost becomes inhibitive when compared with a gen. And yes, the LWO283 is widely acknowledged to be the replacement movement for the gen cal. 3126/3840 but it is far from perfect for use in AP ROOs. We simply have no other choice.
I personally do like the ceramic crown and pushers/open caseback models so the decision was made one day to simply stop building frankens and buying ROO reps.

Do you imply frankening is the way to go for CC models then?
 

legend

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Do you imply frankening is the way to go for CC models then?

Yes and no B and here is what I mean. You need to see which reasoning suits you better.

Why I will choose to wear a franken over a gen (closed CB, rubber crown/pusher models)
- relatively much lower cost
- easy maintenance
- more than 95% of the gen visually
- lesser loss when reselling
- Less worries about damage, theft etc vs wearing the gen

Why I gave up AP frankens eventually
- The more you know about AP ROOs, the more you know about tells, even for frankens with gen hands. Blessed are those with either less knowledge or greater acceptance of the flaws, or both.
- The non-instant date flip bothers me, though I must say it is a very personal pet peeve, and something very few others will care about.
- The date font will not be perfect, no matter which datewheel you use (other than gen).
- At the end of the day, as I learn more about the brand, the feeling of wearing a non-gen bothers me more than the pleasure of wearing something a lot more than a stock rep ROO.

If asked to make a choice today on what franken I will wear, I will pick a white dial rubberclad. It is an older and more basic model, and the gen date window is rectangular as it uses an older movement, and I can wear it comfortably as a beater.

So what I was implying, was that I would not think of frankening the new see-through CB models, and for the closed CB models (>99% of the frankens shown here), I have listed my thoughts above, and it is up to the wearer/builder to decide for his own.
 

SuperLory

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A savvy rep maker could capitalize on this pent-up demand and kill the franken game but so far none has.

This.

Would be good money for them because I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of aficionados of the ROO legacy (like me) who, at that point (say something on par with a Noob daytona or an ARF sub or datejust) yes 700USD would still be a lot of money but they would make much more sense than throwing them down the drain right now.

Buying a new stock JF ROO 42mm TODAY is really wasting money. Not everybody can. Only few I'd say, hence the comatose state of market.
 
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legend

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There is always a downside to "super reps" with regard to higher end watches: You start seeing a lot more of them in the wild, and they lose their exclusivity in a way. It feels strange when every 3rd person I see is wearing a ceramic daytona or 15400, the watches in high demand and supposedly "unattainable" and "exclusive".

This applies to the 15400, divers etc. All good if you like the design or model as they are, but not so when you are looking for something to distinguish yourself from the crowd.
Having said that, the luxury watch wearers are a small percentage of the general population. I buy and wear gens which aren't repped or repped well, because I do like uncommon pieces which aren't spotted a dime a dozen in the wild. It becomes quite meaningless for me personally if everyone around me start wearing the same watch lol. Less a matter of price than a matter of individuality. I feel the same way when I wear a $200 G Shock and spot someone wearing the same at the beach, but to a lesser extent to be honest. Of course, this problem will always exist no matter what watch I wear, unless its a customized bespoke piece. But in gens, the balance of variety is natural and acceptable so far. I do occasionally spot someone wearing the same watch as I have, but these are few and far in between, compared to the ceramic daytonas, 15400s, divers, various Panerai, etc. I see a lot of these recently in the wild, and cannot help thinking that they are common watches, regardless of whether they are rep or gen. What the gen makers produce in thousands and distributes globally, the rep makers produce likely 10x the quantity for a fraction of the gen cost, making them available to guys who like the gen design but is unwilling or unable to spend that amount. So you get the popular models flooding the market, at least in terms of visual likeness, which I am speaking of here without segregating the gen/rep value, physical differences etc. Think of it as a gen 15400 owner meeting a guy wearing a 15400 (whatever v) and then going "oh you have the same watch too". Irrelevant if the watch is gen or rep, but the likeness of which becoming very common, almost mundane in commonness.

So with regard to the rep makers creating a super clone movement and super rep, it is a very good step forward where the hobby is concerned, but you can also expect that it will become a much more common model seen on wrists than before. I want to see a well-cloned 15500 for example, but I don't want everyone around me to be wearing the same watch I own. I do expect a certain measure of uniqueness, though never completely when the model is available commercially to everyone. When you buy an AP ROO or RO, you do not just buy a timepiece, but also the experience and luxury of owning and wearing one. It is always my aim to keep these non-tactile benefits of owning a luxury time piece undiluted and pristine.
 
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Revolper

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There is always a downside to "super reps" with regard to higher end watches: You start seeing a lot more of them in the wild, and they lose their exclusivity in a way. It feels strange when every 3rd person I see is wearing a ceramic daytona or 15400, the watches in high demand and supposedly "unattainable“ or „exclusive“.

This. Regardless if rep or gen.
 
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Garuda

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rolex being the exception. once reps get the 'real super rep status' they slowly die in popularity on the forums.
hublot big bang modding that was popular a few years back and when v6 arrived that sub died overnight.

our $700 reps buy that tiny piece exclusivity. once you see bus driver wearing same watch you move on.
i do not wish to see reps as good as some frankens and gens.
 
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legend

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our $700 reps buy that tiny piece exclusivity. once you see bus driver wearing same watch you move on.

You said it.
A timepiece (yes even a rep) is not just about the timepiece, but often a small extension of our personality or the way we express ourselves. It happens to a larger or smaller extent in different people.
I do not look down on reps and I do not seek to impress with gens. It’s mostly just about individuality: some gens are less common (especially if they aren’t repped) and I’ll have less chance running into someone wearing the same watch. I’m not in the league where I can have a watch customized for me by AP or Rolex so I can only do my best and hope that I don’t run into a bus driver wearing the same looking watch, regardless of whether it’s gen or rep.






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Jurgenk

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Great discussion on desirability and exclusivity of watch-owning experience triggered by OP.

I must admit that any inclination I had for buying a vintage or modern Daytona or other Rolex have been effectively squashed by Noob and various other uber reps.

Franken ROOs exist in a weird limbo state of being difficult to source parts and even base watches for projects, having clear advantages over base reps, but clear shortcomings. It’s still a great option if you’re patient and a little masochistic.
 
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Acurtisttu

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It seems like any modded 42mm ROO that gets listed in the sales section over $1k USD gets snatched up pretty quick. There is still a pretty big demand for them. No factory is making them new anymore. IMO, if hte forum acted in a free market capacity.....the modded ROO's would command premiums and end up in bidding wars. I know personally, there are watches I want and cost really wasnt an issue. the diff between paying $1200 and $1500 is immaterial if I wanted the watch.
 

QueTip

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I dunno guys, I'm way less elitist than you.
I wouldn't care about exclusivity. Certainly not given by the watch I wear.

Why do you go Franken then and not just rock a stock rep or a didun?
 
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MrBeasy

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Interesting though that as we sit here talking about how hard parts are to find and the cost of machining and frankening etc. there are still at least 3 frankens sitting for sale on m2m for weeks / months...
 

legend

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Interesting though that as we sit here talking about how hard parts are to find and the cost of machining and frankening etc. there are still at least 3 frankens sitting for sale on m2m for weeks / months...

Yes MrBeasy, but most AP frankens in the sales section are low grade ones and priced too high. You are a franken collector yourself so you will know what I mean.
There’s always a reason when something isn’t sold for a prolonged period.


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SuperLory

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Why do you go Franken then and not just rock a stock rep or a didun?

And what would the connection be ? I’m not getting it

Also i stated what i think aboit stock reps few posts above and i speak for experience since i had not less than 30 roos from dead stock to fully modded
 
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Variatio Delectat

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I'd purchase a Safari (the classic one, of course), but indeed the case thickness is a real show stopper, feels like a brick on your wrist. And yes, I owned one already, and whilst the gen is a fantastic timepiece the rep simply does not appeal me.
 

Modificata

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I haven’t been on the forum for some time but just read this thread. Fascinating.

I sold all but one ROO and was looking to build up again. A lot of the issues mentioned hold me back too:
Open casebacks
Thickness
And really that you can’t wear these without modding. The thought of buying, sending it off to Domi, and not being able to wear it for 6 months puts me off.

Will it stop me? Possibly. ????