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ZF AP 15500

Jurgenk

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I know the 15500 has its share of detractors but to me it seems a logical evolution of AP RO design language towards modernity, and form following function— in this case serving the function of anti-counterfeiting. If you listen to Bennahmias in interviews you’ll hear that a requirement for many new designs is the “inability to be copied.”

It is thus with some curiosity and intrigue that I await ZFs response to this gauntlet being thrown down.

Will they get 98% right and then miss one small but unrecoverable detail (like everting rather than inverting subdials on the IWC 389001 chrono or not placing the second sweep on the right position in the new ceramic top gun)? Or will they rise to this challenge from AP?
 

legend

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I know the 15500 has its share of detractors but to me it seems a logical evolution of AP RO design language towards modernity, and form following function— in this case serving the function of anti-counterfeiting. If you listen to Bennahmias in interviews you’ll hear that a requirement for many new designs is the “inability to be copied.”

It is thus with some curiosity and intrigue that I await ZFs response to this gauntlet being thrown down.

Will they get 98% right and then miss one small but unrecoverable detail (like everting rather than inverting subdials on the IWC 389001 chrono or not placing the second sweep on the right position in the new ceramic top gun)? Or will they rise to this challenge from AP?

Good points raised P.

Personally, I think that the rep makers do not really pay attention to the propaganda put out by the brand manufacturers, the same way they will miss or mess up details on the rep, or make do with modifications like they did for the A7750 sec@12 for ROOs, for example. Their primary motivation will be profit as opposed to technological possibilities/limitations. So round and round we will go, with the brand manufacturers trying to make "unreppable" watches and the rep makers churning out replicas of varying grades as counterparts for the gens. Of course for series like the code 11.59, I do not expect the reps to get the amazing crystal and case even remotely close. But yet, nothing will stop them from trying. We have the quartz rep models for watches which cost a few hundred grands in gen. They become novelties, or parodies if you will, when put next to their gen counterparts, but as always, SOMEONE will buy them. I do not think that they are out to challenge the brand manufacturers specifically, but rather, their motivation is a simple one: to make money.
If you look at it, the rep makers have formed a parasitic relationship with the luxury watch makers. The success of reps do depend on the gen (design, R&D, desirability) and if the "host" weakens or dies, so will the "guest". The fact that reps exist, is already testament to the fact that the challenge you mentioned exists, on a general scale. Regardless of what the gen makers put out, the rep factories will care less about the story behind the design, and do their darnest to rep it if it makes sense to them financially (yes like you mentioned they often fail in one regard or another)

Good points you raised and thought-worthy for sure!
 

Tigerdragon

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11.59 the Armani design rip off? :D I still hate AP for that. I know the crystal looks amazing from the side (because I saw the gen) but the whole design looks so unbelievable cheap I really ask myself what AP thought about such a design it has nothing from AP except the writing.
 
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legend

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11.59 the Armani design rip off? :D I still hate AP for that. I know the crystal looks amazing from the side (because I saw the gen) but the whole design looks so unbelievable cheap I really ask myself what AP thought about such a design it has nothing from AP except the writing.

In general yes I agree. The character of AP is very subtly included in the midcase, but hardly noticeable. I did buy one for the client profiling, but flipped it after 2 days lol.
I must say that the crystal is indeed amazing, and also, it was a very comfortable watch to wear. But the watch and I just do not agree.
 

SuperLory

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11.59 the Armani design rip off? :D I still hate AP for that. I know the crystal looks amazing from the side (because I saw the gen) but the whole design looks so unbelievable cheap I really ask myself what AP thought about such a design it has nothing from AP except the writing.

come and see a very central AP boutique in Singapore and you'll get instant depression at their window displays. I wanted to take photos to document the sense of despair they convey but I refused in the end. They look like department store watches.
 

Jurgenk

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The low end reps are definitely parodies, but I think when makers have cloned SA3135 and SA4130 movements they are trying to do something more than parody the original item... I don’t think any rep maker has actually crossed over from the parody category to the serious threat category for AP, but from a distance the 15703 seems not that clownish...


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Jurgenk

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come and see a very central AP boutique in Singapore and you'll get instant depression at their window displays. I wanted to take photos to document the sense of despair they convey but I refused in the end. They look like department store watches.

The boutique strategy is so disingenuous.
They leave 2/3rds of the window and glass cabinet slots empty (just like a Rolex boutique) to convey a sense of scarcity and overwhelming demand— which is true but only for the most hyped models.

When you ask, they are only to happy to bring out limited edition and recent releases out from the back room.

This is devious marketing at work that insults our intelligence. It’s equivalent of the street vendor who whispers in your ear, “I have something better for you my discerning friend, come with me...” as he sweeps aside a curtain to his more elite offerings.

Give me a break AP. Show us what you have and don’t be coy. You already brought all sales back under your own control and now you’re just being treacherous.
 
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Kmmas

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Whatever happened to the ZF 15500? Is it not out as yet? How come JF isn’t coming out with the 15500 up till now? Any news
 

Tompa

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They will make 15202 next year, but can't do the exact thickness as genuine, maybe 0.1~0.5 mm thinner than JF version.

Kobe24 please ask your friend at zf to make AP Royal oak offshore to. With gen thicknes and a Dw gap ;) my dream right now


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Tompa

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Tachy/Dw gap.. :)


Skickat från min Sputnik satellit
 

legend

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Kobe24 please ask your friend at zf to make AP Royal oak offshore to. With gen thicknes and a Dw gap ;) my dream right now


Skickat från min Sputnik satellit

It will remain a dream for a long time to come, though the gen AP caliber is nothing to be impressed about technically.
It is still using a stacked chrono module and it is still prone to issues with the chronograph. I believe that factory decisions are based on demand, and technical feasibility, in that order.
I have NO doubt that the factories can clone the AP3126/3840 caliber with enough demand and price each rep at what.. $1200-1500?
I consider the gen ROO movement to be dated vs its competitors, and an upgrade is long due.
Who knows, maybe the rep makers will start cloning the 2019 42mm ROO with the 3-6-9 subdials layout instead. I would have bought that in gen when offered, if not for the condom shaped hands lol.
 

SuperLory

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It will remain a dream for a long time to come, though the gen AP caliber is nothing to be impressed about technically.
It is still using a stacked chrono module and it is still prone to issues with the chronograph. I believe that factory decisions are based on demand, and technical feasibility, in that order.
I have NO doubt that the factories can clone the AP3126/3840 caliber with enough demand and price each rep at what.. $1200-1500?
I consider the gen ROO movement to be dated vs its competitors, and an upgrade is long due.
Who knows, maybe the rep makers will start cloning the 2019 42mm ROO with the 3-6-9 subdials layout instead. I would have bought that in gen when offered, if not for the condom shaped hands lol.

i think many of us AT THIS POINT would do with a non working chrono a-la-ARF Daytona but thinner (also i can't believe they have to be 15mm++ right now but that's another story) and with proper dw position
 
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