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Reject QC from trusted dealer

legend

The RWI Dragon
Staff member
Global Moderator
Certified
20/9/10
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Where I need to be.
I’ll hope for the best...
Do you think that I’m unreasonable based on the posted pic?

I understand that there will be limitations with reps, but I did my research and have seen loads of pictures on the forum without these flaw.





Sent from the RWI App

Based on your picture, I would have rejected the watch too for the crooked marker@15 so I think it’s reasonable if you think something is crooked.
However, the markers and logo can be aligned by any modder. Like slaughterer I’m able to do it too.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Mplayers2006

Horology Curious
23/3/19
15
11
0
I don't get these negative comments nor the logic from some of y'all. From how I see it, this is a legitimate reason to reject a piece.

Really, how much are these td watch runnners making off us? I seen videos of people buying these same watches in china for way less than what the trusted dealers are reselling it for. Fine, they are doing an invaluable service for me by getting and shipping the item. But that does not mean I suppose to take what they put into my face when there are clear defects that are eye sores. I'm paying your price, at least you can provide a service for your customers where the td picks the best quality replica watch the factory has. And Not this Forrest Gump (life is like a box of chocolate) quality check system.

I can understand some people are picky and these are reps not gen, but I don't see why the trusted dealers can't spot these simple defects when they're dealing directly with the factory or salesmen and why can't td fix the minor cosmetic defects, assuming they can be fixed.

And lastly, It should not matter how many reps you bought from a td in the past, if you are paying the full price, then you should get the best quality the td could find.
 

Tucker

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I don't get these negative comments nor the logic from some of y'all. From how I see it, this is a legitimate reason to reject a piece.

Really, how much are these td watch runnners making off us? I seen videos of people buying these same watches in china for way less than what the trusted dealers are reselling it for. Fine, they are doing an invaluable service for me by getting and shipping the item. But that does not mean I suppose to take what they put into my face when there are clear defects that are eye sores. I'm paying your price, at least you can provide a service for your customers where the td picks the best quality replica watch the factory has. And Not this Forrest Gump (life is like a box of chocolate) quality check system.

I can understand some people are picky and these are reps not gen, but I don't see why the trusted dealers can't spot these simple defects when they're dealing directly with the factory or salesmen and why can't td fix the minor cosmetic defects, assuming they can be fixed.

And lastly, It should not matter how many reps you bought from a td in the past, if you are paying the full price, then you should get the best quality the td could find.

Joined today. First post. Hmmmmm?
 
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slaughterer62

Mythical Poster
DO NOT TRADE WITH ME
27/1/13
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Expects amazon style customer service from a law breaking middle man pedalling illegal goods.
Seems legit

Sent from my Noob v9.5

Yes, I often reflect on this "Amazon effect" on this little shadow industry. Amazon has a seemingly great CRM system but it is automated and standardized, and they are not shipping illegal goods across difficult customs barriers from out of a country with very strict penalties for counterfeiting. Plus, does Amazon issue QC photos and selectively pick the best quality goods from their bins? I would have liked that level of service when Amazon shipped my last Vitamix--thing broke within a day. What people seem to be expecting more and more from TDs is Amazon-level speed in execution of orders, faultless product, and continual human communication before, during and after purchase, with assistance in tracking, customs clearance, and also after-sale perks, ie. the total service package for the paying (and highly detail-oriented) "customer is king." That is alot more than even Amazon provides, even if you pay extra for Prime. If you are combining highly stressful, concentrated, detailed work on watches alongside receiving and sending packages of goods, you can pretty much expect to see the time you have for actual watch work eaten up progressively by continual visits to logistics offices, customs offices, postal offices, and answering countless PMs about package status, alongside the continual impatient PMs which basically say "Is it finished yet?"
I do not want to make people feel bad for rejecting QC photos: if a TD will put up with it , you can reject QC photos. Just means probably the defective watch will be shown and maybe accepted by another customer. This is the reason more defects show up late in batches. If you abuse this right to reject QC photos, a TD will eventually refund your money and tell you to go elsewhere. Their margins do not justify the time investment in picky customers. TD margins are not as large as you think: for the most part, the higher quality watches that are sold by TDs are not even available at most backstreet or mall rep markets, which are much lower quality. No doubt, little mistakes in assembly are irritating, but it is par for the course: the Chinese rep factories will never have rigorous QC systems, let alone anything resembling CRM. The TDs try to make up for these missing factory services, but you have to wonder, more and more, if the factories are even providing anything like TDRM (trusted dealer relationship management) today.
The defects shown in this thread (misaligned marker or logo) are very common for this particular model (AP RO), and, if you reject this model watch on this basis, you will probably reject quite a few of them, especially if you start drawing lines on the photos to check alignment like some do. This painstaking QC photo checking might not even be worth it as some of these photos TDs send have surface distortions in them which exaggerate or even create alignment problems in the representation of the watch. Many times the "problem" will not even be a "problem" once the watch is received, or can be easily corrected by a modder, as the case is here. Whatever the case, I think most people can agree: checking other people's QC photos for little micro faults is not why we come here to RWI. I know there might be people who find checking other people's QC photos fun or instructive, but the currently allowed practice of posting QC photos on this website and asking for help based on the suspicion of one micro fault has to be reviewed. You will have some who say "reject!" some who say "accept!" and some who say "accept but send it to a modder," that is about it: the level of public discourse will remain pretty much at a somewhat binary and uninteresting level, which, in the end, despite the working out of the conflicts between opposite parties, makes website content unattractive. Unless, of course, providing QC assistance to buyers is part of RWI's mandate, in which case, OK, but maybe set up a separate section for it, and assign somebody who likes doing these QC checks to help these buyers as a moderator. Call that lucky person "QC assistance moderator" or something.
 

Mplayers2006

Horology Curious
23/3/19
15
11
0
Joined today. First post. Hmmmmm?

And?



Expects amazon style customer service from a law breaking middle man pedalling illegal goods.
Seems legit

I never asked or assumed some 3rd world criminal should mimic a multi billion dollar company that has a customer centric focus, that just stupid.
I only asked for something reasonable, just look at what you pick up to avoid simple rejects, not hard to understand that.
Now if all you do is buy rep watches and send them to the US, then damn, learn a simple skill and fix the defects and charge the customer for your time, simple logic ≠ amazon customer service:woo:
 
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Mplayers2006

Horology Curious
23/3/19
15
11
0
Joined today. First post. Hmmmmm?

And?


Expects amazon style customer service from a law breaking middle man pedalling illegal goods.
Seems legit

I never asked or assumed some 3rd world criminal should mimic a multi billion dollar company that has a customer centric focus, that just stupid.
I only asked for something reasonable, just look at what you pick up to avoid simple rejects, not hard to understand that.
Now if all you do is buy rep watches and send them to the US, then damn, learn a simple skill and fix the defects and charge the customer for your time, simple logic ≠ amazon customer service:woo:
 

Kvdnwh86

You're Saying I Can Sell?
19/12/17
55
15
8
Yes, I often reflect on this "Amazon effect" on this little shadow industry. Amazon has a seemingly great CRM system but it is automated and standardized, and they are not shipping illegal goods across difficult customs barriers from out of a country with very strict penalties for counterfeiting. Plus, does Amazon issue QC photos and selectively pick the best quality goods from their bins? I would have liked that level of service when Amazon shipped my last Vitamix--thing broke within a day. What people seem to be expecting more and more from TDs is Amazon-level speed in execution of orders, faultless product, and continual human communication before, during and after purchase, with assistance in tracking, customs clearance, and also after-sale perks, ie. the total service package for the paying (and highly detail-oriented) "customer is king." That is alot more than even Amazon provides, even if you pay extra for Prime. If you are combining highly stressful, concentrated, detailed work on watches alongside receiving and sending packages of goods, you can pretty much expect to see the time you have for actual watch work eaten up progressively by continual visits to logistics offices, customs offices, postal offices, and answering countless PMs about package status, alongside the continual impatient PMs which basically say "Is it finished yet?"
I do not want to make people feel bad for rejecting QC photos: if a TD will put up with it , you can reject QC photos. Just means probably the defective watch will be shown and maybe accepted by another customer. This is the reason more defects show up late in batches. If you abuse this right to reject QC photos, a TD will eventually refund your money and tell you to go elsewhere. Their margins do not justify the time investment in picky customers. TD margins are not as large as you think: for the most part, the higher quality watches that are sold by TDs are not even available at most backstreet or mall rep markets, which are much lower quality. No doubt, little mistakes in assembly are irritating, but it is par for the course: the Chinese rep factories will never have rigorous QC systems, let alone anything resembling CRM. The TDs try to make up for these missing factory services, but you have to wonder, more and more, if the factories are even providing anything like TDRM (trusted dealer relationship management) today.
The defects shown in this thread (misaligned marker or logo) are very common for this particular model (AP RO), and, if you reject this model watch on this basis, you will probably reject quite a few of them, especially if you start drawing lines on the photos to check alignment like some do. This painstaking QC photo checking might not even be worth it as some of these photos TDs send have surface distortions in them which exaggerate or even create alignment problems in the representation of the watch. Many times the "problem" will not even be a "problem" once the watch is received, or can be easily corrected by a modder, as the case is here. Whatever the case, I think most people can agree: checking other people's QC photos for little micro faults is not why we come here to RWI. I know there might be people who find checking other people's QC photos fun or instructive, but the currently allowed practice of posting QC photos on this website and asking for help based on the suspicion of one micro fault has to be reviewed. You will have some who say "reject!" some who say "accept!" and some who say "accept but send it to a modder," that is about it: the level of public discourse will remain pretty much at a somewhat binary and uninteresting level, which, in the end, despite the working out of the conflicts between opposite parties, makes website content unattractive. Unless, of course, providing QC assistance to buyers is part of RWI's mandate, in which case, OK, but maybe set up a separate section for it, and assign somebody who likes doing these QC checks to help these buyers as a moderator. Call that lucky person "QC assistance moderator" or something.

I think alot of people have questions about there qc pics, and I used the forum for my doubts, and did not show any pictures of the flaws before someone asked me to do so. It was more about the rejection then the actual flaw, I did not rejected any other watch from this TD, also did not name any TD because I don’t want to create any negative attention.
If in what sort QC assistance will be avalaible think alot of rep buyers will use this especially when you are relatively new with buying reps..
you see in only this thread different perspectives and the debate is something what is good and we all can learn from other experiences, so what I think it IS SOMETHING I would go to the forum for!

But still for some it is easy to adjust internal things in the watch but is a big deal for others...

Overall I think a topic like QC assistance would be great!

Thank you



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T3RM1N4T0R

The Terminator Mod
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25/8/13
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Or we can go back the old days and tell our TD's not to send QC pics

You want it you roll the dice.

The only purpose of QC pics was/is/will always be
TD: "hello customer your ordered a Rolex 11610, is this picture a Rolex 11610?"

Customer: "yes that is a Rolex 11610"

TD: "okay friend I will ship it"

Sent from my Noob v9.5
 

T3RM1N4T0R

The Terminator Mod
Advisor
25/8/13
15,414
4,251
113
And?





I never asked or assumed some 3rd world criminal should mimic a multi billion dollar company that has a customer centric focus, that just stupid.
I only asked for something reasonable, just look at what you pick up to avoid simple rejects, not hard to understand that.
Now if all you do is buy rep watches and send them to the US, then damn, learn a simple skill and fix the defects and charge the customer for your time, simple logic ≠ amazon customer service:woo:
You're right of course, let's tell the TD's to add a new function to their job and force them to now learn to take a watch apart and adjust a marker ever so often, or how about relume them because they are not as bright as the gen. Oh that time graph pictures shows the Chinese copy ETA is running +14 seconds, no problem make the TD's learn the very simple trade of watchmaking so they can service the movement for you before sending it.
Here you are deciding what the Dealer chooses to provide in THEIR business.

I did find a site that probably had as watch to your standard but I don't think they will send you QC pic but I could be wrong
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/


Sent from my Noob v9.5
 
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Kvdnwh86

You're Saying I Can Sell?
19/12/17
55
15
8
Or we can go back the old days and tell our TD's not to send QC pics

You want it you roll the dice.

The only purpose of QC pics was/is/will always be
TD: "hello customer your ordered a Rolex 11610, is this picture a Rolex 11610?"

Customer: "yes that is a Rolex 11610"

TD: "okay friend I will ship it"

Sent from my Noob v9.5

Why go back in time!?
I don’t get it, ok maybe our standards are getting higher and higher on the other side the reps qualities are also developing rapidly, and all the TD sell it as 1:1 best quality etc... so why should we not have a high expectation!?
 

r0b9502

Renowned Member
22/1/17
913
305
63
Guys, it is reasonable to expect better. Even if this is dealing in counterfeit products, the money transacted is not counterfeit. It is real.

As an example, I was gifted a gen which in the grey market will command ~$600 (AD price is of course more). This price is well within replica range, given the newer Noob Daytonas approach $700. It ran -15s/d upon wear. I took it back and I am sure they did a full service, it runs -2s/d with amplitude of 320. Date change is now bang on, within -1 minute of midnight. I can regulate it to my preference, now.

What confounded the dealer was that prior to acceptance of repaired product, I pulled out my trusty weishi timegrapher, inspected performance and then left the store. Must have been a first time experience for him.

It would be nice if we can send copies of $$ bills and receive copies of Rolex's, AP's and such, wouldn't it?? That way, we are equal, if shit happens, shit was sent ;)
 

BIONONE

Put Some Respect On My Name
28/4/17
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This thread appears to be hijacked by noobs.

Nothing is granted, gentlemen.
 

applestooranges

Known Member
18/7/18
145
83
28
Guys, it is reasonable to expect better. Even if this is dealing in counterfeit products, the money transacted is not counterfeit. It is real.

As an example, I was gifted a gen which in the grey market will command ~$600 (AD price is of course more). This price is well within replica range, given the newer Noob Daytonas approach $700. It ran -15s/d upon wear. I took it back and I am sure they did a full service, it runs -2s/d with amplitude of 320. Date change is now bang on, within -1 minute of midnight. I can regulate it to my preference, now.

What confounded the dealer was that prior to acceptance of repaired product, I pulled out my trusty weishi timegrapher, inspected performance and then left the store. Must have been a first time experience for him.

It would be nice if we can send copies of $$ bills and receive copies of Rolex's, AP's and such, wouldn't it?? That way, we are equal, if shit happens, shit was sent ;)

That ~$600 you paid for the gen was for this kind of service.

When you buy reps, you pay for multiple factories to copy and produce swiss watches illegally before sending them overseas. Money is spent every step of the way, paying off the local authorities and parts manufacturers, before the actual factory assembles them and passes them on to the TDs, both of whom take their own cut as well. None of you people seem to understand that this is an illegal business. Unless there was a good chunk of change involved, none of the parties mentioned earlier would be here. And all this happens in China, where local authorities have way more power than they should. Even the boss of GF got into some trouble recently.

Its a different product folks, and the reps we get from TDs are as good as reps get. If you believe you're over-paying the TDs, DH-Gate is full of cheaper "Noob" watches too. If you want gen service, get the gen.
 

Mplayers2006

Horology Curious
23/3/19
15
11
0
You're right of course, let's tell the TD's to add a new function to their job and force them to now learn to take a watch apart and adjust a marker ever so often, or how about relume them because they are not as bright as the gen. Oh that time graph pictures shows the Chinese copy ETA is running +14 seconds, no problem make the TD's learn the very simple trade of watchmaking so they can service the movement for you before sending it.
Here you are deciding what the Dealer chooses to provide in THEIR business.

I did find a site that probably had as watch to your standard but I don't think they will send you QC pic but I could be wrong
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/


Sent from my Noob v9.5

finally, someone talking some sense o_O... where are you getting all this from, I never said anything close to that. All I said was pick me the best one at the factory or at least what the factory shows you, it's not hard, it does take a little time though, but I thought I was over paying for that in the first place. And if their best watch has some minor defect like something crooked, then they should (should as a suggestion, not force to comply) charge extra to fix the mistake at the customer's discretion . Wow that sounds fundamental, surprise that had to be said.

But, no let me use y'all logic.. I guess I should just be happy there is a eye sore watch in there instead of a turd made in china ????????. shut up and be happy, mplayers2006 :megalol:. It doesn't matter if your AP bezel is not an octagon, but a hexagon and your 15 min mark is slightly off. No you should be happy with what you got as if it's a gift from god. We don't want to hear your bezel is the shape of Oregon, we only want to hear thank you td for your valuable service, and time spent finding me an illegal copy of a watch. Now I can go to a modder and lace their pockets to fix these avoidable mistakes.
 
Last edited:

Mplayers2006

Horology Curious
23/3/19
15
11
0
That ~$600 you paid for the gen was for this kind of service.

When you buy reps, you pay for multiple factories to copy and produce swiss watches illegally before sending them overseas. Money is spent every step of the way, paying off the local authorities and parts manufacturers, before the actual factory assembles them and passes them on to the TDs, both of whom take their own cut as well. None of you people seem to understand that this is an illegal business. Unless there was a good chunk of change involved, none of the parties mentioned earlier would be here. And all this happens in China, where local authorities have way more power than they should. Even the boss of GF got into some trouble recently.

Its a different product folks, and the reps we get from TDs are as good as reps get. If you believe you're over-paying the TDs, DH-Gate is full of cheaper "Noob" watches too. If you want gen service, get the gen.


i don't mind personally over paying somebody to source an item I want in another country and ship it to me, seems fair depending on how much they're asking and what they bring back. But if I pay for someone to get me a watch, I expect a certain level of quality, with respect nothing will be 1:1, but don't play the lazy man strategy and just pick anything up and send it to me. Have a little common sense to Review a picture of a gen watch and grab the best watch the factory put infront of them base off their judgement, so we both can avoid this back and forth game. I mean, I can understand if the td were buying these things out some vending machine, and they just bring you what fell from the slot, but it does not work that way. they have access to plenty of finished reps they can inspect on our behalf and bring us the best one they saw. Now that doesn't mean look at 5,000 watches and pick the best, but sniff through as many as they can tolerate and grab what they saw to be the best, if the customer is not happy with what was picked then it's understood they should Take it or leave it.
 
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Tucker

Lunnyfied by Raddave
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Or we can go back the old days and tell our TD's not to send QC pics

You want it you roll the dice.

The only purpose of QC pics was/is/will always be
TD: "hello customer your ordered a Rolex 11610, is this picture a Rolex 11610?"

Customer: "yes that is a Rolex 11610"

TD: "okay friend I will ship it"

Sent from my Noob v9.5

I wish we did go back to no QC. It was an illegal good. I frequently received my watches inside a stuffed animal. I would pray: 1) I received the correct watch; and 2) that it worked.
 

Tucker

Lunnyfied by Raddave
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i don't mind personally over paying somebody to source an item I want in another country and ship it to me, seems fair depending on how much they're asking and what they bring back. But if I pay for someone to get me a watch, I expect a certain level of quality, with respect nothing will be 1:1, but don't play the lazy man strategy and just pick anything up and send it to me. Have a little common sense to Review a picture of a gen watch and grab the best watch the factory put infront of them....... they have access to plenty of finished reps they can inspect on our behalf and bring us the best one they saw. Now that doesn't mean look at 5,000 watches and pick the best, but sniff through as many as they can tolerate and grab what they saw to be the best, if the customer is not happy with what was picked then it's understood they should Take it or leave it.

Lmao. You have no idea how it works. Spend more than 24 hours on the forum and maybe you will get it (or go back to your other account and be a man).