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New AP ROO Franken for less than 2k?
- Thread starter MrBeasy
- Start date
- 7/8/16
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And some will understand that a franken will always be a franken. With the LWO movement, the finesse and workmanship of the calibers will never be the same as gen.
ANY franken, even one with gen hands etc, will have tells. This is a nicer piece than your rubberclad, and better than a stock or modded rep AP, but still leagues away from the gen.
But as long as you are happy with it, that is the most important thing. Everyone has different expectations of quality. Enjoy it!
Hi Legend,
I perfectly agree with you that an eta will never be as refined as the ap or the jaeger-lecoultre based movement ( based only on assumption off course, i've never had the change to fiddle around with a gen ap movement before ) , but can you be more specific on the other things that bother you so much in a franken ? Don't get me wrong please, just curios to see and learn of course .
Cause you called the franken above to be leagus away from the real piece and that really made me curious.
I don't have a lot of knowlage on the ap roo builds but i'm assuming most of the things that bother you are related to the case. Like finishing and shape, right ?
Having a lot more experience with rolex builds on the other hand, i could argue the same for those.
I mean regardless of how many gen parts you throw on a sub rep for example, there will still be a lot of things wrong with it .
Like the lugs shape, sel shape and fit, bracelet finish and feel, clasp look and feel etc.
But having both gen and the rep (case and bracelet ) side by side i was able, in many cases, to end up with a pretty close build to the real deal both in look and feel.
So what i'm saying is that most of the issues realted with the prestige and finesse if you will ( like very small tolerances, subtle beveled edges on the clasp and bracelet for .ex) , that set the gen apart from any reps or frankens can be overcome thorough hard work and study.
Now on a ROO build, having the realatively cheap option to go for a gen strap and clasp (and considering you go gen for the hands, dial, tachy and cyclops maybe) the only thing left to worry about is the case. And how hard can getting the case right be ? Am i right ?
Again, just making assumptions here, but i recon that with a little fine tuning you can get pretty close to the real deal.
I'm really curios to see your take on this subject. After all you do have a lot of gen roos and defently know a lot more about them than me.
I've noticed that most modified cases still have issues left unsolved, like the beveled edges on the back near the crown, or the missaligned border between lugs and back, or the caseback shape even after modding ( which would be pretty hard to address ) , but i still recon that those issues can be fixed as well .
Looking forward to your and other's input on this as well .
Hi Spatiumtemporis
Firstly a warm welcome to the AP section. Yes I do agree that there is a lot of vibrancy and life here as well as knowledge and good advice.
I used to own 12 AP frankens at one go, my last purchase being in 2016. I’ve sold all of them and never looked back as the frankens, no matter how well built, can never be compared with the gen ROO. I own the same number of gen APs now. Yes a franken can look close to the gen in a picture. No doubt it will even pass off as a gen on social media posts. But so will many modded reps.
But place most frankens side by side with their gen counterparts, and you will see the minor but crucial differences between the gen and the franken. For example, even with gen hands and gen dial etc, the date window plate opening is still rectangular vs the square in the gen. The cyclop can look accurate, but no aftermarket datewheel matches the gen one if you know what to look for. The gen case is also a thing of beauty, and no rep case can match it in terms of alignment of rhe dial, tachy, crown and stem/tube, pushers etc. Yes the rep case can be thinned. But turn the gen in your hand and inspect it from all angles, and do the same for a franken, and you will see and feel the difference. A watch is about an experience, and not just looks alone. It is essentially encapsulated time on your wrist and you need to enjoy every fine detail of it, from the visual beauty to the finesse of the winding and time setting, and details like the crispness of the instant date change in the gen. You can never experience this in any LWO movement, and more so if the alignment of the tube, movement, crown and case are off by just a little.
I have no arguments that a lot of frankens look somewhat accurate. But when I mentioned leagues apart, I included the experience of wearing and operating a gen AP vs doing so for it’s franken counterpart. It is like driving a Porsche and a Toyota engine in a Porsche chassis. Imagine this and you will understand the difference I was trying to express.
Even if the franken has a gen movement, a custom movement holder still has to be made to accommodate the movement in the rep case. And the alignment will never be perfect among all the components.
It will never have the perfect balance and feel which a gen has. So while a franken can look accurate, so can a parked Porsche fitted with a Toyota engine. I am certain that the drive of the car is as important as, or more important than its looks and that this “franken” Porsche will never drive like the gen one. From the outside everyone will admire the guy in the Porsche, but the driver will never get the satisfaction of the Porsche experience. I was speaking from the viewpoint of the driver. Leagues apart.
So yes the impressiveness of AP frankens stop with the forum pics. It does not even matter that nobody can call it out in real life. The wearer knows well that he can never have the satisfaction of wearing it as a true AP.
This is a very personal view though. I’m sure many are happy with frankens and even find them impressive. I personally just cannot see them as relatively low end watches with a economy engines running them. It is like the Rolex 3135 being substituted by the ETA2836 in rolex frankens. How do you feel about that?
I have nothing against frankens as novelty watches resembling their gen counterparts closely. These are not AP or Rolex or whatever brand they resemble. They are customized watches for sure though and nice to appreciate visually. But they do not possess the true spirits and souls of the brands displayed on the dials.
To each his own. We all have different benchmarks of quality but I will now rather go bare wristed than to wear an AP franken. I think it is a case of familiarity breeding contempt (for the concept of frankens and not against any franken owner or watch) especially if they are being passed off as gens.
I like the building and modding process. And I admire the dedication and creativity, as well as the hard work to source the parts and assemble them. But the end result is not something I can identify with or put on my wrist.
I have mentioned before that this is just my personal opinion. I think a well modded AP rep can look impressive and I’ve seen a lot of APs in the picture thread which are non frankens and equally impressive visually. If the franken owners start touting the superiority of the LWO movement in theirs, they must surely recognize the superiority of the gen movement over theirs in the exact same way.
So if you just want a visually acceptable rep, go with what members like spursian TheDonSL did. Their watches are no less impressive visually.
It is all a matter of choice and resources ultimately. I choose to wear gen but that’s just me. Doesn’t make me better or worse than anyone here.
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- 3/6/14
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Sure, if you want my input on this too. This is absolutely not to shill on B's thread thus, please check back in the Franken thread.
- 7/8/16
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- 3/6/14
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Jurgenk
I'm Pretty Popular
- 28/5/07
- 1,092
- 935
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Today its a gen dial, hands, tachy, cyclops and hornback strap (not mounted).
Almost 3x the price of the budget Franken (even after consideration that a panda build is more popular than rubberclad).
Some like one, some like the other.
I like both.
I think this is a really nice build and a good application of those gen hands, bezel, and other enhancements— they make more than a subtle difference and the result is clearly a “cut above” other Franken builds.
I say it looks great, with a full understanding of what it is, a higher-end franken build. When parts were more plentiful this was a more reasonable proposition, but we all appreciate the artistry and tenacity that goes into making a build like this work.
Kudos on a great build for $2k. That’s not easy to pull off and having done something similar recently with a few more gen parts I’m still a little astonished.
Legend,
Can you spell out the specific issues you have with the hands and DW? I think the hand stack is notably different but the proportions and hand lengths don’t seem to be awful. Also is the DW correct for this version? I’m basing my comments on similar series gen pictures.
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Problems with mikey hands (including the V5):
1. the centre of the mikey hands' handstack doesn't have that 'stacked pyramid' effect like gen
2. the batons (i.e. hour and minute hands) aren't as wide as gen
But the problem is very minor to most people. I got severe OCD for Rolex Sub hands so I also notice the same problem with mikey hands. Nevertheless, mikey hands still represent excellent value for franken builds.
@FTW
Franken bee today.
Gen hands, dial, tachy, hornback strap (not mounted).
Prof cyclops, mikey serif datewheel.
Again - this costs 5500 euro or approximately 3x the cost of a budget franken. If I had the choice again I probably would not bother using as many gen parts.
Franken bee today.
Gen hands, dial, tachy, hornback strap (not mounted).
Prof cyclops, mikey serif datewheel.
Again - this costs 5500 euro or approximately 3x the cost of a budget franken. If I had the choice again I probably would not bother using as many gen parts.
Yes I have requested a mod to delete my last comment. I’ve sent you a PM too. Apologies.
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Jurgenk
I'm Pretty Popular
- 28/5/07
- 1,092
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@FTW
Franken bee today.
Gen hands, dial, tachy, hornback strap (not mounted).
Prof cyclops, mikey serif datewheel.
Again - this costs 5500 euro or approximately 3x the cost of a budget franken. If I had the choice again I probably would not bother using as many gen parts.
This is a gorgeous watch. Beasy please sell me this.
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@FTW
Franken bee today.
Gen hands, dial, tachy, hornback strap (not mounted).
Prof cyclops, mikey serif datewheel.
Again - this costs 5500 euro or approximately 3x the cost of a budget franken. If I had the choice again I probably would not bother using as many gen parts.
Another awesome Franken!! Very impressive collection you have.
I didn't realize Mikey had V5 hands. The last one I got from him were 2 hands and that was recently!
While nothing I have is as impressive as these Frankens, here is a Franken that I just had redone.
I am giving it to a friend of my to express my gratitude for all the work he does on my watches.
I know it has tons of tells under super magnification, but I don't have the cash to buy the Gen of this watch.
Roughly this one cost me about 5500 usd (price of origin Franken I bought off member on her plus the cost of having it redone.
I am giving it to a friend of my to express my gratitude for all the work he does on my watches.
I know it has tons of tells under super magnification, but I don't have the cash to buy the Gen of this watch.
Roughly this one cost me about 5500 usd (price of origin Franken I bought off member on her plus the cost of having it redone.
I know it has tons of tells under super magnification, but I don't have the cash to buy the Gen of this watch.
Actually the tells are clearly seen without any need for magnification at all.
But that’s not the point. Sometimes I forget that this is RWI and that modded reps and frankens are testament to the extent that members enjoy the hobby.
As long as you’re happy with the watch then all is good. The hobby should be enjoyed by each one in ways which are meaningful for himself.
Visual accuracy aside, most frankens that I’ve seen are nice watches on their own. Your piece is no exception and I like the sandblasted titanium finish and also the metal rings around the subdials. Beautiful details. Congrats.
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TheDonSL
Put Some Respect On My Name
- 28/12/13
- 4,571
- 1,150
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Yes I think everyone in the end has to be happy. For me, I think a Franken is a waste of money. Not saying it’s wrong, but I’d rather have the look over anything. How many hot girls did anyone have a one night stand with? Did she have the IQ of head lice or was she Einstein? lol lol did you really care about her brains/movement? Lol
In all seriousness, I’ve owned many gens, yes you cannot compare a gen to a rep, however the rep is very close. I almost bought 2 AP gens in France, but then thought how when I got into reps I didn’t wear any of my gens, AP, Rolex, Breitling, etc sold all my gens and am much happier with a huge variety of reps then the 7-8 gens I had. Will I buy a gen AP? Maybe, but prob going to buy another brand that just isn’t repped well because I want another watch that the factories can’t come close to.
Just my two cents. Everyone should do and wear what makes them happy. I am very happy with my reps and every time I go to buy a gen I stop myself because I feel like it will be a waste since I won’t wear it much lol I get tired of one watch and constantly like to switch it up. Sure if I had billions of dollars I would just buy 100 gens, why? Because they are superior, but that ain’t happening so enjoying my reps that are 97% identical and I could care less about the little tells or movement.
In all seriousness, I’ve owned many gens, yes you cannot compare a gen to a rep, however the rep is very close. I almost bought 2 AP gens in France, but then thought how when I got into reps I didn’t wear any of my gens, AP, Rolex, Breitling, etc sold all my gens and am much happier with a huge variety of reps then the 7-8 gens I had. Will I buy a gen AP? Maybe, but prob going to buy another brand that just isn’t repped well because I want another watch that the factories can’t come close to.
Just my two cents. Everyone should do and wear what makes them happy. I am very happy with my reps and every time I go to buy a gen I stop myself because I feel like it will be a waste since I won’t wear it much lol I get tired of one watch and constantly like to switch it up. Sure if I had billions of dollars I would just buy 100 gens, why? Because they are superior, but that ain’t happening so enjoying my reps that are 97% identical and I could care less about the little tells or movement.
Actually the tells are clearly seen without any need for magnification at all.
But that’s not the point. Sometimes I forget that this is RWI and that modded reps and frankens are testament to the extent that members enjoy the hobby.
As long as you’re happy with the watch then all is good. The hobby should be enjoyed by each one in ways which are meaningful for himself.
Visual accuracy aside, most frankens that I’ve seen are nice watches on their own. Your piece is no exception and I like the sandblasted titanium finish and also the metal rings around the subdials. Beautiful details. Congrats.
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Thank you for the kind words. My friend likes it and that is what matters most to me.
Now I am having one built for me.
The reason I like frankens over the regular reps is the thickness. The regular ROO Chrono reps feel top heavy to me and are a little uncomfortable to wear. I heard it is possible to have a rep thinned to about 14.3, I want to try one of those out. I had 2 AP Frankens ROO Chronos, this one and another one. I still have the other one and I am going to have another one of these Frankened for myself. Them try one of those thinned reps Chronos out.
