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What AP Franken(s) do you have in the works?!

legend

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Dear RWI friends,

I have the crazy project to build an AP 15202 Franken, and would need some advices from the community.

Indeed, this summer I will turn 40. My dream would have been to offer to myself a beautiful AP 15202. But the recent crazy increase of its price, and not able to have access to it directly from AP, I am thinking seriously today about creating a Franken.

I am really impressed by the latest ZF and XF 15202 reps, but I would like to own a piece of the legendary jumbo, and the solution is to go to the Franken route.

My plan:
- XF or ZF watch donor
- Gen calibre 2121 (old model with white DW and old rotor)
- Rep blue DW adapted to Gen 2121 if feasible
- Rep new gold rotor adapted to Gen 2121 if feasible

Can I kindly ask you few questions, hoping that I will not abuse from your time:
- Gen Calibre 2121: a dealer in Paris is proposing me a caliber 2121 without date wheel, and requiring a proper revision for 1500€. Does it look like a fare price to you? How could I be sure that after a revision the caliber will work properly (any question to ask to the dealer)?
- Blue DW: How to find a compatible blue DW? Would it be possible to use the rep DW and adapt it to the Gen movement? Any proposed solution?
- Hands: Could I adapt ZF or XF hands to the Gen caliber? What could be an alternative if not? (It seems impossible to find 15202 Gen hands)
- Dial: Would you advise me to install a ZF or XF dial, as I understood that the hole of the ZF is bigger?
- New rotor: How could I replace the old Gen rotor to the new model? Could the Rep one be adapted? I saw a picture in the forum of à XF with Gen movement modded with WF rotor…
- Sourcing Gen parts: Any chance someone could have access to Gen parts to help me build this beauty?

I thank you in advance for any advice, comment, knowledge sharing, encouragement, or challenge :)

El Assamite

Ps: I tried to send PM to two of our great AP experts active in this discussion. I do not know if my PMs did not reach their mailbox (I had an issue previously with my RWI mailbox), or if they receive so much PMs due to success that I just need to be patient and wait for their kind answer… ;-)


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Sounds like an interesting project. Who did you PM? I’m not really an expert but I can help you with some gen parts and advice. So send me a PM if you want.


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el_assamite

You're Saying I Can Sell?
13/7/10
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Sounds like an interesting project. Who did you PM? I’m not really an expert but I can help you with some gen parts and advice. So send me a PM if you want.


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Hi Legend,

Thanks for answering.

I PMed you and Tosoboso…
Seems that messages didn’t reach you…

Can you PM me and I will answer back? No idea what happened.

E


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Last edited:

legend

The RWI Dragon
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Hi Legend,

Thanks for answering.

I PMed you and Tosoboso…
Seems that messages didn’t reach you…

Can you PM me and I will answer back? No idea what happened.

E


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Really? I have no PM from you and just saw your message as a coincidence. Let me have a look and PM you soon. I’ll help where I can.


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el_assamite

You're Saying I Can Sell?
13/7/10
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Many thanks Legend.
Indeed, this confirm that I have issues with sending PMs first. Perhaps it is due to my forum status or I miss something… before the forum hack it was working well… :-(


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legend

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Many thanks Legend.
Indeed, this confirm that I have issues with sending PMs first. Perhaps it is due to my forum status or I miss something… before the forum hack it was working well… :-(


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Even a regular non supporter member will be able to send PMs. You can try to clear your mailbox, both inbox and sent mail. Then try to send me a PM after that. If it still doesn’t work, update in this thread and I’ll send you a PM.


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JonathanLing91

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18/1/20
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Hi guys i quite finished my 26470 genestein project, I am only looking for a complete 3126 movement, if someone could help in getting one I will really appreciate
0d12679b0224c3e6934d492c1e712219.jpg


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I really like the brush work on this case. Is it a JF?


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legend

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I really like the brush work on this case. Is it a JF?


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JF brushing isn't much different from the gen one, and there are variations in the gen case finishes as well.
There is nothing spectacularly superior on the gen AP case finish, when compared against the JF or ZF cases.
Any JF or ZF stainless steel case can be brought up to par with a good rebrush job if necessary. Brushings are also not congruent on the gens.. some use the long straight brushing and some use the short rainfall brushing.
 
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JonathanLing91

Renowned Member
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JF brushing isn't much different from the gen one, and there are variations in the gen case finishes as well.
There is nothing spectacularly superior on the gen AP case finish, when compared against the JF or ZF cases.
Any JF or ZF stainless steel case can be brought up to par with a good rebrush job if necessary. Brushings are also not congruent on the gens.. some use the long straight brushing and some use the short rainfall brushing.

Understood, thank you for answering my question. Your input, along with that of other knowledgeable members, really makes the AP forums on RWI an excellent resource.


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legend

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Understood, thank you for answering my question. Your input, along with that of other knowledgeable members, really makes the AP forums on RWI an excellent resource.


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There are some differences which are very evident for gen, like both 26170 and 26470 hands, dial, tachy and datewheel.
For the case and bezel, honestly, I cannot see any significant difference, and mostly these are used for the words "gen case/bezel" to be stated on the build.
The 3120 cal., datewheel and rotor are also a must for any AP franken to look presentable in addition to the hands, tachy and dial.
I know that this would bring the build to almost gen spec both in looks and price, but sadly that is the only way for any AP franken to look like a proper AP on the wrist.
Such a build on the wrist, will look far more convincing and proper than say.. a typical LWO/rep hands build on a gen case. Of course, a gen case is nice to have, but when planning a proper build, it is not a high priority item IMHO. Proportions and geometry of the gen and rep cases do of course vary subtly, but the differences are not meaningful in real life for anyone to look at and say "hey that is a rep case there" even when studied up close. If some guy calls out the case as rep when studied, you can confidently say "Hey QueTip nice meeting you too!" and have a 99% chance you aren't wrong.

My point is that a gen movement is far more valuable than a gen case in an AP franken build. A gen case/bezel is nice to have of course, but not a must for the watch to look convincing on the wrist.
 

JonathanLing91

Renowned Member
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The 3120 cal., datewheel and rotor are also a must for any AP franken to look presentable in addition to the hands, tachy and dial.
I know that this would bring the build to almost gen spec both in looks and price, but sadly that is the only way for any AP franken to look like a proper AP on the wrist.
Such a build on the wrist, will look far more convincing and proper than say.. a typical LWO/rep hands build on a gen case.

I’m assuming you’re referring to a franken of an open caseback model (I.e. the vampire). Personally, I don’t see the advantage of using a genuine movement over an LWO 283 if it isn’t visible to the individual, aside from your own personal satisfaction of course.


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legend

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I’m assuming you’re referring to a franken of an open caseback model (I.e. the vampire). Personally, I don’t see the advantage of using a genuine movement over an LWO 283 if it isn’t visible to the individual, aside from your own personal satisfaction of course.


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In terms of function, and aesthetics, the gen has the following benefits over the LWO

- better finish and correctly decorated plates
- ability to fit the gen rotor
- ability to use the gen datewheel
- better power reserve
- better automatic winding function
- instant date change (like gen APs should)
- Perfect fitment with gen hands. No slipping issues.
- (observation) reliability is about the same between the 2. The gen caliber is NOT more reliable than the LWO. So is inherent timekeeping capability. One is not better than the other.

So no I’m not just talking about aesthetics. You cannot just ignore the advantages of the gen movement vs the LWO. Let’s just say that the LWO is a tenable lower grade alternative to the gen, but in no way equivalent to the cal 3126/3840. It is usable, but not perfect. And a gen caliber definitely has a lot more advantages than a gen case. You need to understand the gen caliber before thinking that it’s equal to an LWO. It is a lot more. I’ve owned enough frankens in the past to know the differences and it’s one reason why I don’t own AP frankens anymore.


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JonathanLing91

Renowned Member
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In terms of function, and aesthetics, the gen has the following benefits over the LWO

- better finish and correctly decorated plates
- ability to fit the gen rotor
- ability to use the gen datewheel
- better power reserve
- better automatic winding function
- instant date change (like gen APs should)
- Perfect fitment with gen hands. No slipping issues.
- (observation) reliability is about the same between the 2. The gen caliber is NOT more reliable than the LWO. So is inherent timekeeping capability. One is not better than the other.

So no I’m not just talking about aesthetics. You cannot just ignore the advantages of the gen movement vs the LWO. Let’s just say that the LWO is a tenable lower grade alternative to the gen, but in no way equivalent to the cal 3126/3840. It is usable, but not perfect. And a gen caliber definitely has a lot more advantages than a gen case. You need to understand the gen caliber before thinking that it’s equal to an LWO. It is a lot more. I’ve owned enough frankens in the past to know the differences and it’s one reason why I don’t own AP frankens anymore.


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Understood and agreed. However, I’m simply looking at it from a cost perspective. What I find most fun about replica watches is attempting to ascertain as close to a genuine spec watch (ultimately, 1:1 is impossible) as possible for as limited of a budget as possible. Undoubtedly a 3120 or 3126 will be better than an LWO 283 but I personally believe it won’t be worth the significant multiples in price a 3126 would cost more than an LWO 283. Also the difficulty associated with sourcing a gen movement.

Don’t get me wrong, if I had the money to burn I’d use the gen movement, but for all intents and purposes I’ll settle for the LWO in a franken, which regardless of how well it’s built won’t hold its value the same way a gen piece would.

You’re a lucky man in that you have quite a few gens, I’ll stick to my 2-3 gens (non-AP) and live happily with my reps which 90-95% of people won’t be able to tell are reps :)


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legend

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Understood and agreed. However, I’m simply looking at it from a cost perspective. What I find most fun about replica watches is attempting to ascertain as close to a genuine spec watch (ultimately, 1:1 is impossible) as possible for as limited of a budget as possible. Undoubtedly a 3120 or 3126 will be better than an LWO 283 but I personally believe it won’t be worth the significant multiples in price a 3126 would cost more than an LWO 283. Also the difficulty associated with sourcing a gen movement.

Don’t get me wrong, if I had the money to burn I’d use the gen movement, but for all intents and purposes I’ll settle for the LWO in a franken, which regardless of how well it’s built won’t hold its value the same way a gen piece would.

You’re a lucky man in that you have quite a few gens, I’ll stick to my 2-3 gens (non-AP) and live happily with my reps which 90-95% of people won’t be able to tell are reps :)


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Actually if you have money to “burn” you’ll get the gen naturally. All of us will. :legend:

I agree with your point of view that reps are supposed to be fun and built to satisfy the self. Nothing wrong at all with that philosophy. As long as you enjoy your watches, you decide the worth of every part or upgrade.

It’s definitely a preferred perspective to someone listing a long list of gen parts in their build down to the screws and then mistaking it for gen based on the parts, and not basing its authenticity based on provenance.


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W47chl0v3r

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I’m one of those gen (mid) case owners and had it been cheaper to modify the replica case I would have done it. Gen pusher and stem positions already come lwo/gen movement ready. I can do a comparisons between the rep case and the gen case if anyone is interested…
 

W47chl0v3r

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legend said it well. It wasn’t a decision made purely because the finishing was different. I would hardly notice it unless the inside diameter was different, and the parts that are unseen like the areas sand-blast finished inside the pusher area or the inner diameter .