New ZF 15202 coming soon and and thoughts on Tapisserie dial

[cranestep]

Hi just saw a teasing poster from my local dealer and 15202 should be coming this or next week.
This is always the model I wanted but as I just checked, in the current ZF 15202 they did not do well on the dial's Tapisserie and I am not confident that ZF will fix this in new version.

In short Tapisserie is the unique square pattern AP uses, and they have "Petite" on 15202 while "Grande" on 15400 and 15500.
The problem is ZF still use the old "Grande" on 15202, which is not visible by bare eye, but the sunburst pattern may be visible (I'm not sure").

If anyone is familiar with the dial, please let me know how big the difference is and if it can be fixed.

Recently I just went to AP boutique and was shown a 16202 silver dial (New this year for 50 Anniverary). Truely stunning model and the silver dial is beyond amazing, the shine is divine. Too good that I am afraid factories may not be able to rep it.

 

[legend]

Expectations for reps need to always be managed well. The rep dial can never match the gen. The issue many members have is that they spend $500 or whatever and then start comparing their reps to the gens in every aspect except the price. :legend:

If you are able to buy the gen 16202, nothing can substitute it and the reps will always fall short one way or another. For the prices the reps are asking, I think that they are very decent indeed.

 

[cranestep]

Expectations for reps need to always be managed well. The rep dial can never match the gen. The issue many members have is that they spend $500 or whatever and then start comparing their reps to the gens in every aspect except the price. :legend:

If you are able to buy the gen 16202, nothing can substitute it and the reps will always fall short one way or another. For the prices the reps are asking, I think that they are very decent indeed.

Understood, I keep telling myself that but it's a paradox every rep player can not escape. If you don't care how it compares with gen, then there is no point buying a rep at all.

There is rep standard like CF or BTF daytona that can bypass almost all but just professional eyes, or rep that can be instant tell like current AP panda dial or calendar.

As much high expectation would be set for superclone, I am just curious how close would the dial be given AP dial is probably the most difficult one to rep compared to other mainstream rep model.
I did my research after this post and unfortunately, not even the current best 15400 dial could be close to gen, the sunburst is just so much different.
I think until now the AP reps are still an entertainment to yourself yet rather than a wearble one in occasions.

Yes, the gen 16202 is very nice, the only problem is they wouldn't sell to me in about 5 years haha.

 

[Jaysn0w]

Understood, I keep telling myself that but it's a paradox every rep player can not escape. If you don't care how it compares with gen, then there is no point buying a rep at all.

There is rep standard like CF or BTF daytona that can bypass almost all but just professional eyes, or rep that can be instant tell like current AP panda dial or calendar.

As much high expectation would be set for superclone, I am just curious how close would the dial be given AP dial is probably the most difficult one to rep compared to other mainstream rep model.
I did my research after this post and unfortunately, not even the current best 15400 dial could be close to gen, the sunburst is just so much different.
I think until now the AP reps are still an entertainment to yourself yet rather than a wearble one in occasions.

Yes, the gen 16202 is very nice, the only problem is they wouldn't sell to me in about 5 years haha.

Well saId..hahaha thats why im here..really somewhat disappointed why you cant buy gen..its crazy you cant even buy a 31 mm datejust you have to be "wait listed".. and im not willing to pay "extra" in the grey market...

 

[centrum]

Awesome to hear. 15202 needed an update. Hope the hands base is identical to the gen.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

 

[Albiful]

At this point, I would have expected factories to focus on producing a 16202 rep.
If ZF has fixed a couple of the most noticeable flaws, the new 15202 it's gonna be worth the wait. Fingers crossed!
Hope it's not the usual marketing claim from factories/TDs trying to sell more.

Also: :ttiwwop: (just joking, thanks for the news)

 

[Nono92]

In short Tapisserie is the unique square pattern AP uses, and they have "Petite" on 15202 while "Grande" on 15400 and 15500.
The problem is ZF still use the old "Grande" on 15202, which is not visible by bare eye, but the sunburst pattern may be visible. Too good that I am afraid factories may not be able to rep it.

What is the difference between the small and the big tapisserie ? The squares have the same size ?

 

[legend]

Well saId..hahaha thats why im here..really somewhat disappointed why you cant buy gen..its crazy you cant even buy a 31 mm datejust you have to be "wait listed".. and im not willing to pay "extra" in the grey market...

I’m fortunate in a way that I have a fairly strong profile with AP built over many years and after a few hundred thousand dollars. So I got to buy a lot of desirable models at retail and grew the collection meaningfully. There are however certain agreements in place to govern the allocations I get pertaining to selling the watches, transferring them or trading them within a specified period.

Reps are good for wearing and banging around and to be honest, they are respectable for the price, straight out of the box. I tend to look at their positive feature and value/price index rather than look for flaws on a $500 watch. I can never understand threads detailing the process to fit a gen dial or hands onto a rep with the OP acting like it’s a groundbreaking, never been done before mod, with the final result typically showing a replica watch which is still leagues away from the gen (but of course with the proud and ignorant owner thinking it’s better than the gen :legend: )

I therefore like the reason why you’re here. You know what the gen is like and will never spend grey market money on a gen AP, but will appreciate the rep for what it is, without pretense or grandiose while waiting for the chance to get the gen. It’s a pretty down to earth approach to the hobby and one which acknowledges and understands the gulf divide between the two worlds, without ever trying to bridge them like some members like to do with frankens. I hope to see more members like yourself here instead of another “look at my sUpeRfRaNkEn 15400 with GEN dial and how GEN it is” thread :hehehe:

I believe that reps should be enjoyed for what they are, without comparison to gens. There is a reason for the huge price difference which you seem to understand. Replicas do resemble the gen and allow the wearer the chance to wear a watch which look and maybe feel like the gen in some ways but in no way is even the most frankened watch an AP. The good news is, it does not have to be one for it to look and feel good on the wrist in real life. And for $500 or whatever, most AP reps are respectable looking. If the wearer has the correct attitude and corresponding style, nobody would doubt (pr care about) the watch in real life, inaccurate details or not. For me pulling off an AP is more about the wearer than the details on the watch.

Thanks for your input sir!

 

[Albiful]

For visual comparison,
left:15202 with petite tapisserie
right: 15500 with grande tapisserie
(image by Monochrome Watches)

 

[Nono92]

Ok, thanks. So the small tapisserie is smaller than the big one !
when I look at the small used by ZF compared to gen, they seem to have the same size. But maybe I'm wrong...

 

[Erinoush]

Ok, thanks. So the small tapisserie is smaller than the big one !
when I look at the small used by ZF compared to gen, they seem to have the same size. But maybe I'm wrong...

They are "identical" ....
The difference is not in the size it is in the texture, the colors, the way it reflects light ...., except the pattern everything is different ....

 

[Nono92]

They should make a sunburst effect, like the green new dial. It must be possible, even with the squares...

 

[Jaysn0w]

I’m fortunate in a way that I have a fairly strong profile with AP built over many years and after a few hundred thousand dollars. So I got to buy a lot of desirable models at retail and grew the collection meaningfully. There are however certain agreements in place to govern the allocations I get pertaining to selling the watches, transferring them or trading them within a specified period.

Reps are good for wearing and banging around and to be honest, they are respectable for the price, straight out of the box. I tend to look at their positive feature and value/price index rather than look for flaws on a $500 watch. I can never understand threads detailing the process to fit a gen dial or hands onto a rep with the OP acting like it’s a groundbreaking, never been done before mod, with the final result typically showing a replica watch which is still leagues away from the gen (but of course with the proud and ignorant owner thinking it’s better than the gen :legend: )

I therefore like the reason why you’re here. You know what the gen is like and will never spend grey market money on a gen AP, but will appreciate the rep for what it is, without pretense or grandiose while waiting for the chance to get the gen. It’s a pretty down to earth approach to the hobby and one which acknowledges and understands the gulf divide between the two worlds, without ever trying to bridge them like some members like to do with frankens. I hope to see more members like yourself here instead of another “look at my sUpeRfRaNkEn 15400 with GEN dial and how GEN it is” thread :hehehe:

I believe that reps should be enjoyed for what they are, without comparison to gens. There is a reason for the huge price difference which you seem to understand. Replicas do resemble the gen and allow the wearer the chance to wear a watch which look and maybe feel like the gen in some ways but in no way is even the most frankened watch an AP. The good news is, it does not have to be one for it to look and feel good on the wrist in real life. And for $500 or whatever, most AP reps are respectable looking. If the wearer has the correct attitude and corresponding style, nobody would doubt (pr care about) the watch in real life, inaccurate details or not. For me pulling off an AP is more about the wearer than the details on the watch.

Thanks for your input sir!

Totally agree on reps being used for banging around...


Imho it doesnt matter what others think... its your money gen or rep.. just dont offend or attack anybody heheh.. everybody is entitled an opinion.. and all opinions are opinions and not a certainty hence nothing to be emotional about...

 

[cranestep]

For visual comparison,
left:15202 with petite tapisserie
right: 15500 with grande tapisserie
(image by Monochrome Watches)

Thanks for the photo sir.


Yes this shot is the best I've seen during my research, the 15202 sunburst was very clear. In real life it's a very sharp cut in to 4 average and moves in different light angle, truly stunning.
IMHO not looking for an unrealistic identical rep, but this patterns to me represent the watch more than a bare "AP" logo on it, it's just the nature of this watch and not to offend anyone for being a "demanding" rep player. My point is that either ZF can be a superhero to rep this pattern or the new model is not really worth to play.

There are some kindly of watch that you just can't wear it if the most representative nature is not given, AP in this case and a stationary escapement in RM 055 rep maybe.
It's not even about your class or your style, any medicore AP player can instant tell by the obivous lack of clear sunburst. Even the most confident millionnaire can't wear an instant tell rep and walk around CBD, unless you write the truth in the front of your shirt.

 

[Tobel]

Thanks for the photo sir.


Yes this shot is the best I've seen during my research, the 15202 sunburst was very clear. In real life it's a very sharp cut in to 4 average and moves in different light angle, truly stunning.
IMHO not looking for an unrealistic identical rep, but this patterns to me represent the watch more than a bare "AP" logo on it, it's just the nature of this watch and not to offend anyone for being a "demanding" rep player. My point is that either ZF can be a superhero to rep this pattern or the new model is not really worth to play.

There are some kindly of watch that you just can't wear it if the most representative nature is not given, AP in this case and a stationary escapement in RM 055 rep maybe.
It's not even about your class or your style, any medicore AP player can instant tell by the obivous lack of clear sunburst. Even the most confident millionnaire can't wear an instant tell rep and walk around CBD, unless you write the truth in the front of your shirt.

Believe me I wear my zf15400 blue dial when I want to go out, drink and not have to think about damaging my gen, and nobody has ever called me out or even looked at me weird. People are much more disinterested or ignorant as you might think

 

[Watyouseek]

What’s the eta for the release?

 

[Nono92]

Je ne peux jamais comprendre les discussions détaillant le processus pour adapter un cadran de génération ou des mains sur un représentant avec l'OP agissant comme si c'était un mod révolutionnaire, jamais fait auparavant, avec le résultat final montrant généralement une réplique de montre qui est encore à des lieues de la génération (mais bien sûr avec le propriétaire fier et ignorant pensant que c'est mieux que le gen :legend

You're right. The question is : "what is the benefit of a mod, compared to the money spent for it ? After that, is it a real advantage compared to gen ?" Is there for example a big difference of accuracy between the movements ? AP neither gives it nor mention COSC...

We should create an evaluation comittee in order to give a percentage of the gen. The criteria would be : thickness, movement, colour and effect of the dial, aso...

 

[legend]

You're right. The question is : "what is the benefit of a mod, compared to the money spent for it ? After that, is it a real advantage compared to gen ?" Is there for example a big difference of accuracy between the movements ? AP neither gives it nor mention COSC...

We should create an evaluation comittee in order to give a percentage of the gen. The criteria would be : thickness, movement, colour and effect of the dial, aso...

It’s all subjective. Just like how I don’t believe in nor acknowledge the “NWBIG” list created by someone else, I don’t believe in a consensus evaluation of AP reps as well. I think each of us is capable of choosing what we think works for us and what doesn’t. For example, I’m not ok with the slow date change but a lot of guys are. I can therefore condemn the slow date change for myself but the rest of the guys would disagree with me. Totally fine.
For me, there are only two types of watches: gens and reps and if the watch isn’t made in Le Brassus by AP with papers, it is a rep for me. But others will disagree and think that putting a gen dial in their 15400 is enough to turn it gen for them. Not wrong for him and understandable for me. My point is that he should keep his opinions private instead of sharing them with the community and seeking approval/consensus/validation/compliments but seldom accepting criticisms.
A consensus by people without the necessary experience, knowledge or correct understanding of the details is rather meaningless and can be collectively subjective.
It is enough for me that each of us has our own “NWBIG” list and watches we can accept to wear and those we won’t. Each of us is different that way and it’s perfectly fine. It’s only when such opinions and posts are made public that debates, discussions and disagreements happen and that’s totally natural too for a forum. Guys who cannot take criticism shouldn’t post their $5k frankens up looking for compliments and validations but not tolerant of opinions which do not agree with their views.

 

[daytona4me]

About to put everyone in timeout over back and forth over franken and non-franken.

 

[Nono92]

A rep is a rep anyway, franken or not. There are different points of view concerning the rep : some people are really looking for improvements and don't need an approbation. I think they are happy to share their photos and it's totally normal on a forum. As you said, each one has his own level of requirement but steel is steel and the difference between the gen and the rep is much less than the difference of price tells.